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Old 07-09-2013, 08:30 PM   #1
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Boat prices

Moved off our sailboat after living on her for five years and moved back to land. Now three years later we want to get back on the water on a trawler. We have looked on-line at alot of boats and have narrowed down our search to three boats. I was wondering if anyone how much to negotiate down the asking price. They say it's a buyers market but yet I don't want to be unrealistic. Any info would help.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:00 PM   #2
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Generally, without acccess to soldboats.com which is reserved for brokers my suggestion is to look at other listings of the boat you are looking at although with so many options on a boat a swing of 20+% is not unrealistic based on options and the upkeep of the vessel.

It was a buyers market over the past few years and still is on more expensive vessels however that has reversed on vessels under $300K general offers of 10% to 15% under asking are not unusual, some may say offer real low but in my expierence all you do is just upset a seller and he wont take you seriously and it will be a tough transaction all the way to closure even if you come up to his acceptable price.

The one difference is location as certain areas of the country can change the price of a boat quite considerably both up and down.

Good luck.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:20 PM   #3
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Use the same bargaining technique you used when you bought your sailboat.
I never worried about being unrealistic because I never fall in love with a boat until after I own it. Just figure out how low would the price have to be for you to spend the money and make that offer. After the 2nd or 3rd boat you will get the hang of it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:52 AM   #4
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Listing price has nothing to do with sales price, so percentages won't work.

Sale price has little to do with what any other boat sold for. Each boat is different, as is each owner.

IMHO The best deal on a boat will not be the cheapest of a certain model. It will in general be the boat that the owner sunk allot of money into. That money will never be recouperated.

To get an idea of what to offer, research the owner. What CAN he sell the boat for. How bad does he want to sell it? Then make an offer based on your research.

Some say that a boats value is what a ready willing and able buyer will pay.

I say that market value of a boat is more driven by how desprate or motivated the sellers are.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesailing13 View Post
Moved off our sailboat after living on her for five years and moved back to land. Now three years later we want to get back on the water on a trawler. We have looked on-line at alot of boats and have narrowed down our search to three boats. I was wondering if anyone how much to negotiate down the asking price. They say it's a buyers market but yet I don't want to be unrealistic. Any info would help.
Get a broker in your corner. One of our many jobs is to research other sales to help you evaluate pricing.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:10 AM   #6
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Some say that a boats value is what a ready willing and able buyer will pay.

I say that market value of a boat is more driven by how desprate or motivated the sellers are.
I think both are correct, and the selling price is a product of the two. Value and price may not be identical, depending on how keen one or other is to make a deal, eg desperate seller, or "in love" buyer.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:02 AM   #7
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"I was wondering if anyone how much to negotiate down the asking price. They say it's a buyers market but yet I don't want to be unrealistic."

Why would you believe the price on a vessel you have never even seen would be unrealistic?

Boats are not rugs at the Souk , where a $100 cost will require a $1400 asking price to be negotiated as a social custom..

Or a jewelry where The std is 5 steps , so a $20 cost is listed as a $100 item.

HALF OFF!! a great "deal" is 150% profit.

A boat that is a commodity , Boston Whaler ,may be subject to a book price as the market is awash with them.

A 20 or 40 year old boat is valued by condition , so two boats from the same assembler will probably be very different in value, but that the asking price for any and every boat is unrealistic is not realistic.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:30 AM   #8
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I know that different regions of the country will reflect asking prices concurrent with local economies/resident's wealth, etc... However, over several decades of buying sailboats on the Gulf coast, I've found an old adage offered by and old broker friend to be fairly consistent: A boat will depreciate in value at least 25% in the first year, then around 10% of the adjusted value per year for the next 10 years, at which point the value stabilizes and maintains according to how well the boat is maintained. I've never bought a boat that had major renovations performed at that point, and I'm sure a trawler with new engines, generator, A/C systems, etc would be an exception to this rule. However, I've found this to be within a % or two on the 7 boats up to 41' and 4-14 years old that have fed my addiction.
I wonder what trawler buyers seeing relative to this old adage? Also wonder if entries in the Boat Broker's listing of "Sold Boats" is still operated on the "honor system"?
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:02 AM   #9
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There is no mystery here. If you:
  • do your homework,
  • look at lots of boats,
  • know what you want,
  • understand the seller's needs,
  • don't fret over rejected offers and
  • educate yourself
-the right offer price will naturally fall out.

Don't be a tire kicker though or lack conviction, the brokers will wise up real fast.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:44 AM   #10
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I'm still shocked at how low prices have gotten. Good friend jut picked up a 39' Navigator, excellent condition with all the bells and whistles low hours for 130k. Ran into a fellow at Sucia that had jut got a 44 Ocean Alexander w/30K of electronics installed over the last 2 years and paid 120K
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #11
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I'm still shocked at how low prices have gotten. Good friend jut picked up a 39' Navigator, excellent condition with all the bells and whistles low hours for 130k. Ran into a fellow at Sucia that had jut got a 44 Ocean Alexander w/30K of electronics installed over the last 2 years and paid 120K
It appears to be simple...

A lack of buyers.

Our economy is us. When we as people do and buy things the economy expands.

When we as people think the economy is in trouble, we dont spend our money and the economy shrinks (and gets into trouble).

We create our own "bad times" and our own "good times" through our spending habbits as a populice.

Boats haven't changed in the last 5 years. Same boat, less people willing to spend money = lower boat prices.

I saw this in an advertisement for Charles Nelville, but its worth repeating...

The economy will improve when we all choose to participate in it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:28 PM   #12
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We create our own "bad times" and our own "good times" through our spending habbits as a populice.
It's the herd mentality. When prices are down people won't buy. When prices start rising sometimes it is a buying frenzy. For the last few years houses have been very affordable. Prices down and interest rates at historical lows. I used to think it would be easy to sell houses at a loss. The last few years changed my thinking on that.

You can sell low and buy low, or sell high and buy high. Seldom does it work differently. Market is what an informed buyer will pay and an informed seller will take. There are always anomalies in the market. People sell for a lot of different reasons. Patience is your friend when buying.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:33 PM   #13
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Cream puffs are selling like hotcakes!
Well maintained boats with good upgrades usually sell for closer to asking price than fixer uppers, there is no way to generalize a percentage. It is also difficult to research the asking prices and the sold prices. As a broker I have access to Boat Wizard, the commercial side of Yacht world and I can see the original asking price and original listing date. If a brand x trawler has been on the market at a certain price for a year or so it may be overpriced. I also have access to sold boats.com but have to reserve judgment on the accuracy of the sale price reports.
Talk to some brokers in your area and find one who knows something about trawlers, then he can research the boats you are looking at and give advice on the pricing. Yacht brokers work like real estate brokers we sell each others listings. If the broker you work with is not the listing broker, his incentive is to find the best deal for you.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #14
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Cash is king. If you make lots of offers, someone is going to bite. You want the seller who HAS TO sell, not the one who wants to sell. I buy 2-10 houses per year. When I make an offer, it is NET TO SELLER. IOW I pay their closing costs and don't try to make a "deal after the deal". My offer is " with right to inspect". If there is something I missed, I can walk away but I won't go back looking for further price concessions from the seller. Don't get caught up in "but it is worth X amount of dollars" with the seller.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #15
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I'm still shocked at how low prices have gotten. Good friend jut picked up a 39' Navigator, excellent condition with all the bells and whistles low hours for 130k. Ran into a fellow at Sucia that had jut got a 44 Ocean Alexander w/30K of electronics installed over the last 2 years and paid 120K
Right or wrong, Navigators have seemed the low priced leader for a long time. If the 44 OA had DD 8.2s that may explain the low price there, but the OA 44 has been a slow seller for many years. Good name brand boats with the right engines and above average care and attention tend to sell quickly.

Interestingly, high end car sales are booming. It would seem the bloom is off the old pseudo trawler boating rose.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #16
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The OA had Cummins. The ideal boat for the size IMHO
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #17
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I paid full asking price but it took over a year to find the boat. Condition is everything, had an entire buffet of boats to choose from. We chose one that somebody else spent over a year refitting only to suffer poor health upon completion. Only thing we've HAD to do to it so far was put fuel in it and enjoy.

When you find a cream puff priced to sell my advice is don't waffle, pull the trigger. Guy on this forum picked up a 25 foot Albin a couple weeks ago because the buyer that had a deposit on it was digging for discounts on a lowball offer.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:42 PM   #18
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Speaking of a "Buyer's Broker"....

Do you sign an agreement or contract for the Buyer's Broker like you do with Real Estate? OR is it a "hand shake" between parties?
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #19
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I paid full asking price but it took over a year to find the boat. Condition is everything, had an entire buffet of boats to choose from. We chose one that somebody else spent over a year refitting only to suffer poor health upon completion. Only thing we've HAD to do to it so far was put fuel in it and enjoy.

When you find a cream puff priced to sell my advice is don't waffle, pull the trigger. Guy on this forum picked up a 25 foot Albin a couple weeks ago because the buyer that had a deposit on it was digging for discounts on a lowball offer.
We missed a cream puff Carver that was priced low because the elder owner had failing health.

We went to lunch to discuss it, stopped and looked at 1 other boat and it was under contract when we went back.

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Old 07-15-2013, 01:00 PM   #20
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Oneofsix,
I have never had a contract with a client to be a buyer's broker and I have never been paid by the buyer, it was always only a share of the seller's commission.
Often I find boats in Florida but will travel to inspect boats for a client once we have established an understanding. I met a client on the old Passagemaker website and flew to Puerto Rico to look at a boat for him, it was easier to for me to go than for him to fly from Canada. I looked at the boat and told him to pass. Then I went to new York to survey a boat he had found and after survey I told him to pass on that boat. Later I found a boat he did buy on the west coast of Florida.
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