Boat Ownership - Ca$h Deal - or - Loaned $$$

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Art

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Feb 9, 2011
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Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
This is to find out how many boaters own their boat outright or have a mortgage to pay.

And... is the mortgage is above or below 50% of boat value.

I'm the first... Every boat we ever purchased is a 100% cash deal, i.e. bought and paid for. Wife and I are the same way with everything we own!

:D :popcorn::popcorn:
 
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Own ours outright, we don't like to finance toys , and it keeps us within our budget when making a decision on these type of purchases.

Bill:)
 
I paid cash for all 3 boats I've purchased.

The only purchase I will make with money I don't have is a home mortgage. Everything else it's either cash or if the funds invested make a better return than the cost of the interest I may take out a loan.

I will never take a home equity loan or any similar loan against my home to buy a boat or any other non necessary item.
 
Pay cash, by all means. I can't imagine a mortgage on a boat in addition to all the other recurring expenses like insurance, dockage, etc.

You need to remember that a boat is not an asset. Not exactly a liability but not something you can turn into cash quickly in the event of an emergency.

Also.. don't let the purchase drain all your cash reserves. Every reason you built up reserves will still exist after you purchase a boat. In fact there will be more reasons for a reserve. Boats are notorious for unexpected expenses.

pete
 
I chose to keep a significant amount of cash on hand and to finance the boat. Adequate and reliable Cash flow can be a determining factor.
 
Cash for all toys. A boat mortgaged only as liveaboard is exception.
As for disposable cash flow, you will need that for maintenance and operation.
 
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80% financed. I could have bought it outright, but the expense of preparing for the trip home would have depleted my cruising, insurance, slip fee, and maintenance budgets for the first ~5 years of ownership. Plus, I planned to live on the boat someday and didn't mind having a mortgage on a second, someday principal, 'home.' I got a good rate but that rate was only available for a 20-year loan. I'm paying extra to pay it off in 15 and have the option to pay it off when I retire. Financing gave me options that I'm glad I had/have.
 
As for cash flow, you will need that for maintenance and operation.


I believe it would depend on your specific amount of cash flow and your specific note.
 
You've heard of DINKS (double income, no kids) well, we're SIOKOV's (single income, one kid, one vehicle) so have to be careful with money. House and truck were paid for before we got the boat, which we paid cash for.

We were lucky though, in a way, because we had our daughter fairly late so were well set up before she came along.
 
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Always bank money. My money makes 6%, bank money cost 4.5%. I could sell some stock but I would pay 20% in taxes. Much cheaper to pay with bank money and pay the bank off with cash flow. Easy for me to say this, my bank loans always get paid off in 5 years or less.

Cash is right for some, bank loans for others but don’t be like my neighbor. He built his boat in his back yard with cash. Took 20 years, floated the boat and was just waiting for his sails to be delivered when he passed away last week from a heart attack.
 
I'm the first... Every boat we ever purchased is a 100% cash deal, i.e. bought and paid for. Wife and I are the same way with everything we own!
I am in the very same boat as Art, in that a boat is a depreciating asset & doesn't justify paying interest on a loan to finance it. Money spent to keep it up or modernize it is bad enough. :facepalm:
 

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Mortgaging toys is a US thing.

In Canada, we don't get to write off our mortgages, unless the asset mortgaged is part of our business.
We usually don't finance our toys, or if desperate for the toy, re-finance the house. That will put reasonable limits on the amount financed.
 
My boat was financed, and I get to retire when its paid off. :)

If you look at the cash buyers, they in most cases (but not all) choose boats in a modest price range.

For those that choose a boat with a less modest price to it, (and that number is different for all of us) financing the boat is the only viable option.

Yes there are some that are either older (time to build assets), or very fortunate that can write a check for a substantial dollar amount, but that number of people in this world is small.

The rest of us finance our boats using a a loan of some kind.

Myself I chose a loan secured by my boat. I specifically chose not to mortgage my home, or use a 401-k loan. We worked hard to pay off our primary home in our late 40’s and simply replaced our home mortgage payment with a 10 year boat loan of approximately the same dollar amount.

For this person it was either 49 or never to trade up from my cabin cruiser. Any later and I could not pay for it before my planned retirement. Any earlier and I could not afford it. One moment in time to make a decision.
 
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If you want a broader representation of circumstances, then I'd suggest a poll so people can answer anonymously.

I've said "cash only" before and seen many say it here and feel like I'm being a bit condescending in some ways as it's not an option for most people to pay cash for everything. I wouldn't say a person should deny themselves a home or car if they can't pay cash for one, nor would I say they should deny themselves a boat. One needs to examine their own finances. My only advice is not to assume more debt than you're certain you can easily handle and to keep in mind that buying depreciable assets is never an investment and that money is not easily recovered if one's circumstances change.

We can take a hard stance and deny ourselves unreasonably. A simple statement like "I'm not going to buy a boat until I can pay cash" may mean one isn't ever going to buy a boat.

So my only real advice is not to extend yourself further than you can afford in buying non-necessities.
 
Myself I chose a loan secured by my boat. I specifically chose not to mortgage my home, or use a 401-k loan. We worked hard to pay off our primary home in our late 40’s and simply replaced our home mortgage payment with a 10 year boat loan of approximately the same dollar amount.

For this person it was either 49 or never to trade up from my cabin cruiser. Any later and I could not pay for it before my planned retirement. Any earlier and I could not afford it. One moment in time to make a decision.

Looks to me like a lot of very wise decisions along the way. I find that you didn't use your home or your 401-k also most interesting and, in my opinion, a wise protection. Seems to me you said "I can pay my boat loan fine, but I recognize there is always some risk of events in my life, even if only 1/10 of 1% risk that could keep me from doing so and I'm not putting my other assets at risk." I've seen people speak to their banks about boat loans and get talked into home equity and it's always concerned me. I've seen it backfire on a few.
 
Own outright with a maintenance budget.
 
cash for the fun stuff. Both retired, house and cars all paid for, but just finishing putting son thru college this quarter. There is always something to pay for.
 
I financed 70% of the purchase.

Everyone’s financial situation is different. For me, it made more sense to finance the boat than to pay cash. I can write off the interest on the boat as a second home. That reduces the effective cost by 30%. At that point I get a better return from my investments than it costs to finance. It doesn’t even make sense for me to accelerate the payments on the loan just as it doesn’t make financial sense for me to accelerate the payments on my home mortgage at this point.
 
Looks to me like a lot of very wise decisions along the way. I find that you didn't use your home or your 401-k also most interesting and, in my opinion, a wise protection. Seems to me you said "I can pay my boat loan fine, but I recognize there is always some risk of events in my life, even if only 1/10 of 1% risk that could keep me from doing so and I'm not putting my other assets at risk." I've seen people speak to their banks about boat loans and get talked into home equity and it's always concerned me. I've seen it backfire on a few.

That was exactly my thoughts. I could have used my home as collateral and saved a couple percent on interest, but the risk was too high.

Although no bad things happened and I am approaching my boats pay off time, the plan was always that we could dump the boat if necessary and be happy in our paid for home on the lake.

I read a statistic once that 68% of males go through a forced job change in their mid 50’s, and never financially recover. That was a shock to me, but you hear about it all the time. We are replaced by younger people making 2/3 our salary in what the companies that we were loyal to call a “corporate restructuring”. That never happened to me, but it did happen to several friends, and they were unprepared
 
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I read a statistic once that 68% of males go through a forced job change in their mid 50’s, and never financially recover. That was a shock to me, but you hear about it all the time. We are replaced by younger people making 2/3 our salary in what the companies that we were loyal to call a “corporate restructuring”.

That's rough. Happy to pay my union dues :thumb:
 
We have done both - paid for some outright and financed some.
Choices were made based on the financial numbers and likelihood of which was a better fit.
That is the way my wife and I have been with all financial decisions in life.
 
I read a statistic once that 68% of males go through a forced job change in their mid 50’s, and never financially recover. That was a shock to me, but you hear about it all the time. We are replaced by younger people making 2/3 our salary in what the companies that we were loyal to call a “corporate restructuring”. That never happened to me, but it did happen to several friends, and they were unprepared

The cutbacks are sometimes even more insidious than that. Companies are well prepared to do the minimum compliance with ADEA (Age Discrimination Employment Act). It states that in a major reduction the impact on those over 40 must be proportional to those under. So, you have a group of 1000 workers of whom 300 are over 40. You're going to reduce 100 workers and that would say you can't reduce but 30 who are over 40. Now, there's an allowance and the number is really 37 (80% rule and 80% of 37 is 29.6 so it passes. Companies will sit down and find the highest paid and will even sit and say "to get rid of these three also then how many under 40 do we have to choose?"

Also, the savings. It's not to just someone costing 2/3 as much. The new hire is often at the lowest level so they terminate someone making $100k, let existing people all along the line move up in responsibility and hire an entry level person at $30k. Savings of 70%.

Companies can manipulate themselves to fairly easy compliance. Oh, and the granting of severance is another little trick they use. "We'll pay you three months but you must sign this agreement foregoing any rights to sue. Oh, and we'll give you an additional $500 to forego your rights to sue under ADEA (law requires additional payment for that)." Most people are going to sign and take the money.

Loss of employment is a real risk. One other huge risk, a major medical event. Could be illness or from accident or anything, but quickly run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 66.5% of all bankruptcies cite medical bills as one of the causes. Your home is protected, not your boat.

We have best friends who were neighbors in NC and moved with us to FL and work for us now. I saw the devastation in their lives. They'd both worked for the same company for over 30 years. He'd had moderate pay and she'd had low pay. They were 53 and 51 when the company shut down. They couldn't even get job interviews. When they did, they didn't get the job, hearing "Over Qualified" much too often and other times just being passed over for someone younger. He was in charge of buildings and construction and all maintenance over 6 buildings that housed manufacturing facilities (700 employees) and one with offices and Office Depot and Lowes wouldn't hire him for fear as soon as he found something better he'd leave. She was told by a recruiter that the reason one company turned her down was hiring younger so it didn't impact their insurance costs as much. Illegal but common. They had 13 years remaining to retirement so spending their savings and were planning on selling their house. Losing a job for someone over 50 can be devastating.
 
I was lucky when I bought our boat. It was in Detroit, our country was at the bottom of the recession, unemployment in that area was running about 33% and people were giving away toys just to get out from under the payment. The brokerage I bought it from had picked it up almost 2 years prior from a bank auction, figuring they would flip it and make a killing.


After 3+ months of negotiating with the selling broker (Oh, BTW, did I mention that I'm a trained hostage negotiator and love to dicker?) I was able to buy the boat for about 50% of what its market value was at the time. I put about 50% down, financed 50% of what I had paid for it, then paid cash for about $50K worth of additional equipment and upgrades.


So now I have a few years left on a 15 year loan. The current balance runs about 20% of what the value of the boat is. I have enough assets that if I wanted to pay the boat off I could do that, but the money I have invested is earning more than that the interest rate on the boat loan is. Why pay it off early?


I would never suggest to anyone that they take out a mortgage on their home to buy a boat or any toy. Sh!t happens and if it did, I'd feel much better about giving a toy back to the bank than I would giving my home back to the bank.


We have one long cruise planned for the boat and after that is done the boat will be for sale. We'll take the proceeds from the sale and buy some sort of an RV and go land cruising.
 
Financed, because we had just started to look for a retirement boat when we came across the NT we ended up purchasing. We were 5/6 years from wanting to make a purchase, but we were given a deal we just couldn't refuse. And like others have said the loan rates are lower than the interest we are making.
We have been doing all our own repairs with the boat on the hard at our house. When the repairs are finished we will keep the boat at our dock on a lift, so no monthly slip fees.
 
My wife and I waited almost 20 years before getting into larger boats so that we could pay cash, no loans. Prior to that our focus was on our kids, paying a mortgage, and then surfboards and kayaks, and rides on my buddies center consoles for the fun stuff. With that said, our kids were in high school when we got back into boating 9 years ago. We therefore only had a couple years with them on the boat before they headed off to College. As is often the case, + and -, with these type of decisions.
 
I was lucky when I bought our boat...our country was at the bottom of the recession, unemployment in that area was running about 33% and people were giving away toys just to get out from under the payment.

Must have been about the time we bought our boat.

Low boat prices in Washington State and Alaska squeezed prices lower in BC. The previous owners were looking at heading into their 4th winter trying to sell Badger at what was probably an emotionally based asking price.

We paid market rate and they saw the boat go to a local family with a young daughter...everyone was happy and have stayed friends.
 
Loss of employment is a real risk.


I find this ironic that if you work for someone else and have a W-2 to provide a source of financing it is much easier to get approved than if you are self employed. I have a business in continuous operation since 1930 (I'm the 3rd owner) and it doesn't matter.
I would have been the LAST person laid off at my business.
 

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