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10-09-2019, 04:19 PM
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#101
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Guru
City: Mississippi
Vessel Name: ADAGIO
Vessel Model: CHB Present 42 Sundeck
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 920
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And yes we have temporarily financed about 60% of our boats purchase price. Horrors, we used our home equity line (house is paid off and this is about 10% of the appraised value). We will pay that off with the next two quarterly dividends from our family owned bank.
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10-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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#102
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
6% doesn't even get property managers to start their car here!
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Mine is 5%.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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10-09-2019, 06:12 PM
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#103
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
Mine is 5%.
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Art should switch to your property manager. Just a little long distance management.
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10-09-2019, 06:15 PM
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#104
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Moderator Emeritus
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,266
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I really love the “cash only” folks out there. I really love their discipline.
Myself, if it were not for financing I probably would not own anything of high value. That is not bad or good it is just a fact.
The idea of buying what I wanted TODAY, and enjoying it TODAY started in my 20’s, and had worked very well for us.
Now in my 50’s I have a yard full of previously financed stuff. I won’t go into explicit details, but a bunch of vehicles of varying shapes, sizes, capabilities. All previously financed, all now paid off.
The last one to pay off is my nice boat, which was yes financed, but that is coming to a end, as retirement is looming.
For me/us the concept of waiting till I saved the tens and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars up to buy something just was not going to happen.
frankly my attention span is not that long, and credit is easy to get.
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10-09-2019, 06:43 PM
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#105
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
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I didn't get my first permanent full time job until I was 32, choosing to work short contract jobs and spend the rest of my time traveling, going to art schools, photography school, hiking/climbing trips, and going on long sea kayak expeditions.
Experience and memories were more important than stuff or things.
Because of this, and because my wife is a stay at home Mom, we had to be careful with our money. We bought the boat we could afford at the time, with cash. We also didn't even think about buying a boat until my wife's car accident ended our sea kayaking and we felt a deep need to get our young daughter out into the north coast wilderness we loved.
On your last day, with your last breaths, your memory bank will be far more important than your bank account or the things you bought in Life.
I could work until the age of 67 for a full pension, but I'm leaving at 60 with a reduced pension.
So, I guess I haven't changed much over the years, eh?
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
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10-09-2019, 06:50 PM
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#106
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,143
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The only thing more absurd than bragging what your boat is...... is how you paid for it.
Most people love their boat so it's only natural to brag how they figured out how to acquire it.
What works for some doesn't work for others.....
Who cares?....well who should.....
Either you know how to handle your finances or you don't..... the boat is only one part of ones overall financial life.
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10-09-2019, 08:39 PM
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#107
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Guru
City: Santa Cruz, CA
Vessel Name: Concerto
Vessel Model: 1980 Cheoy Lee
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld
The only thing more absurd than bragging what your boat is...... is how you paid for it.
Most people love their boat so it's only natural to brag how they figured out how to acquire it.
What works for some doesn't work for others.....
Who cares?....well who should.....
Either you know how to handle your finances or you don't..... the boat is only one part of ones overall financial life.
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Well said.
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10-09-2019, 08:50 PM
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#108
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Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
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Not so much bragging as sharing stories, me-thinks.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
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10-09-2019, 08:59 PM
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#109
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Guru
City: Aventura FL
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116 2008
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10,595
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Of course folks brag about their boat. Not one person will say, ‘Buying this boat was a mistake.’
I tell folks, I pay for this boat by gun running, drug smuggle and sneaking women into the country. I do all this without leaving the dock. Of course no one believes me. Aren’t I lucky. LOL
__________________
Two days out the hospital after a week in the hospital because of a significant heart attack.
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10-09-2019, 09:01 PM
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#110
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Guru
City: Italy
Vessel Name: Didi Mau
Vessel Model: Currently looking for next boat
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,081
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It has nothing to do with discipline
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders
I really love the “cash only” folks out there. I really love their discipline.
Myself, if it were not for financing I probably would not own anything of high value. That is not bad or good it is just a fact.
The idea of buying what I wanted TODAY, and enjoying it TODAY started in my 20’s, and had worked very well for us.
Now in my 50’s I have a yard full of previously financed stuff. I won’t go into explicit details, but a bunch of vehicles of varying shapes, sizes, capabilities. All previously financed, all now paid off.
The last one to pay off is my nice boat, which was yes financed, but that is coming to a end, as retirement is looming.
For me/us the concept of waiting till I saved the tens and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars up to buy something just was not going to happen.
frankly my attention span is not that long, and credit is easy to get.
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I could have easily paid cash for or current boat, bur that would have been silly. Since buying the boat, three years Shi. my stock portfolio is up nearly 50 percent. Had I taken money out of investments I would have had to pay minimally 15% your capital gains. And I would have foregone being fully invested. So now I am paying off the bost monthly for a cost of3.5%.
Call me stupid, but paying cash seems like a losing proposition. How many of you who pay cash keep your money in cash? Paying cash seems penny wise and pound foolish. Debt is a tool. Wise people use it to create more money.
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10-09-2019, 09:18 PM
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#111
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Guru
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxtrotCharlie
Yep, my favorite text from a tenant (young lady) "Help Mr. Charles, my bathroom is broken". I replied "can you be a bit more specific, ie is there water on the floor?". She said no, when I push the toilet flush handle nothing happens. Easy fix.
When we start the LOOP next Oct I will turn my 17 properties over to a Property Manager for 7% of gross rents (already agreed).
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If tenants are calling you about bathrooms broken, you either have the wrong tenants or haven't trained them.
__________________
Seevee
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10-09-2019, 09:20 PM
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#112
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Guru
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bligh
I have friends who have everything they own mortgaged to the hilt in order to invest in commercial real estate. The have been doing it for 20 years now successfully. I haven't done it because of the percieved risk involved. But fter witnessing their financial success, I'm starting to think I have missed the boat , so to speak.
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I could argue that's a crap shoot. Commercial property over the years has been feast or famine. If one is lucky, they do well, if not, they go broke.
Been there... not for me. But fortunately the business I sold created the commercial property lease so I was golden as long as he didn't fail. The other commercial properties I had were extremely high risk.
No, you didn't miss the boat.
__________________
Seevee
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10-09-2019, 09:26 PM
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#113
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Guru
City: st pete
Vessel Model: 430 Mainship
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon J
I could have easily paid cash for or current boat, bur that would have been silly. Since buying the boat, three years Shi. my stock portfolio is up nearly 50 percent. Had I taken money out of investments I would have had to pay minimally 15% your capital gains. And I would have foregone being fully invested. So now I am paying off the bost monthly for a cost of3.5%.
Call me stupid, but paying cash seems like a losing proposition. How many of you who pay cash keep your money in cash? Paying cash seems penny wise and pound foolish. Debt is a tool. Wise people use it to create more money.
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I'll call you stupid.... but really don't mean it..... . Need some humor occasionally.
Nothing totally wrong with consumer debt, but I could argue strongly against it for a number of reasons. First, being it's high risk, and most of us don't like risk even though we could take our dollars and get better returns elsewhere.
I could argue there's a reason to keep money in cash and that's for opportunity to make a quick deal and that's where a LOT of money is made.
Sure debt is a tool, but only when it offers you the risk you want and some benefit of a profit. Toys do not produce profit.
And there's a way around capital gains and other taxes.
__________________
Seevee
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10-09-2019, 10:05 PM
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#114
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Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB
Art should switch to your property manager. Just a little long distance management.
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Onsite ingoing and departing tenant inspections might be a tad expensive from here.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
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10-11-2019, 12:54 PM
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#115
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Senior Member
City: Punta Gorda
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 156
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We always pay cash for what we can afford & own outright. Of course, this means we will probably never own that Nordhavn.
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10-11-2019, 01:05 PM
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#116
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Member
City: Sacramento, CA
Vessel Name: Brave Duck
Vessel Model: 1988 Lord Nelson Victory Tug
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7
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Several years ago I spoke to the underwriting VP at BoatUS. I was surprised when he told me that 85% of their policyholders were financed. That was before the 2008 crash during which many boats got repossessed.
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10-11-2019, 01:12 PM
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#117
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Guru
City: Phoenix, AZ
Vessel Name: Enigma
Vessel Model: 1997 Wellcraft Excel 26 SE
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 658
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Technically a mortgage is a security instrument (document) for a loan on Real Property. The definition of Real Property goes back to English Common law and involves land usually with a building. And not all US states use a mortgage to secure a home loan. Many states (like AZ) use a Trust Deed. So there is no mortgage at all, even though many people still say they have a mortgage on their home. In reality they do not.
With that said, my first two boats had a long term boat loans. (Over 3 years) My current boat I got a loan because I was a bit short at the time of purchase. Paid it off in under 6 months. And under US tax laws the interest was deductible as a second home for vessel #2 & #3.
My next boat will be a live aboard trawler type of vessel and at this point I have enough cash to buy it with no loan. However my trigger point will be closer to retirement.
__________________
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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10-11-2019, 01:35 PM
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#118
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Member
City: St Simons Island
Vessel Name: Skylark
Vessel Model: 1993 Ocean Alexander 390 Sundeck
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM
That's rough. Happy to pay my union dues
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My union dues worked right up until the time the company threw our contract out and the bankruptcy court took it all away.
Found out the in the good ole US of A a contract ain’t worth the paper it’s written on.
The good new is we have a great boat and are enjoying life. It was a 70% loan.
__________________
Jerry Morris
Skylark
Ocean Alexander
390 Sundeck
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10-11-2019, 02:05 PM
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#119
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Veteran Member
City: Dark Harbor Maine
Vessel Name: SOU'WESTER
Vessel Model: Hinckley Talaria 42
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
This is to find out how many boaters own their boat[s] outright or have a mortgage to pay.
And... is the mortgage is above or below 50% of boat value.
I'm the first... Every boat we ever purchased is a 100% cash deal, i.e. bought and paid for. Wife and I are the same way with everything we own!
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I always pay cash for mine and not afraid to do some cosmetic work on the right find. Also, always go for the thorough sea trial. Try EVERYTHING out. Expect to lose money on the deal, but enjoy the ride as long as you can!!!
Personally, I never rent. No matter how tempting or inexpensive. Some do and that is ok for them, but not for me. No judgement.
However, I would never, ever rent one while I own one. I would also never borrow one from a friend, especially without permission!!
Wait, uh, was topic wives or boats?
🍿
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10-11-2019, 02:27 PM
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#120
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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The idea that it is disadvantageous that because the IRS standard deduction for a married couple is $24,000 obviating itemizing and lessening the "value" of a loan interest deduction is misplaced. Let me demonstrate with a simple question. What would you rather have, $20,000 of itemized deductions or a $24,000 standard deduction? Remember, too, that the tax benefit is only the marginal benefit of the amount in excess of the standard deduction so, under the old law (generally) one would need at least $12,000 or thereabouts of interest before getting any benefit. At a 5% interest rate on a ten-year note, to incur $12,000 average per year interest, one would need to borrow about $200,000. All this assumes no other itemized deductions.
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