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Old 10-08-2019, 03:59 PM   #81
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I'd change the phrase to "I get better deals with immediacy." If you can complete the deal right then, it pays. Now, if you have financing lined up and do that subsequently or immediately, no issue. However, if one has to wait, it's a different story.

Years ago, I knew an incredibly successful used car dealer, finest cars around and great reputation. Long before Car Max, he'd purchase very nice used cars at more than other dealers. However, he also regularly drove around the country side. He never used the interstate, but he looked for cars along the way for sale and some not for sale. He'd see a car in a front yard of a farm house and pull up. He'd offer cash right then and his wife was a notary so could complete the deal on the spot. People would sell to him who had no plans of selling, really on impulse.

We buy small businesses and guarantee closing within 7 days from our offer, doing all due diligence and other in that time. The norm is months and most never complete. I recall Wayne Huizenga (who I'm not a fan of) making the statement decades ago that all his business negotiations for acquisitions were negotiated in a maximum of 3 days. He'd tell his lawyers and the other side that he wanted to make the purchase and they had 3 days to make it work. Contracts had to be short and succinct too. Many good deals for both sides are ruined by teams of people nit picking the agreements for months over things really immaterial.

For the most part, the kinds of deals we're talking about here though are cash which can be now vs. financing which can easily drag out for a month or more. In that case, cash may get the best deal.

This is exactly right. Here is a video from a YouTuber that covers some best-practices on saving money through the buying process. Several are about helping speed the transaction up.

https://youtu.be/ZgsJb-EfmN8
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:44 PM   #82
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I did consider it, but I decided I didnít want to deal with renters. .
Never dealt with a renter in the 15 years we have had rental property
That's what property managers are for.
6% well spent.
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Old 10-08-2019, 07:46 PM   #83
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Never dealt with a renter in the 15 years we have had rental property
That's what property managers are for.
6% well spent.
6% doesn't even get property managers to start their car here!
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Old 10-08-2019, 08:04 PM   #84
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I love dealing with our tenants, the stuff they do and say ...very entertaining.
I could write a book.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:35 PM   #85
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I love dealing with our tenants, the stuff they do and say ...very entertaining.
I could write a book.

Me too. Love my tenants. But, first of all I screen them and then train them to take care of my property and pay the rent ahead of schedule. But once trained they perform great (or I have failed on tenant selection).



I manage all my own properties... absolutely minimal time. Love it.


Yes, I could write a book too......


Some of the highlights.....
Tenants that have built screened in pools for me..... and ones that have rebuilt stuff for me, added appliances, paint, tile, etc., and ALL of them maintain the property for me.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:38 PM   #86
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I'd change the phrase to "I get better deals with immediacy." If you can complete the deal right then, it pays. Now, if you have financing lined up and do that subsequently or immediately, no issue. However, if one has to wait, it's a different story.

Years ago, I knew an incredibly successful used car dealer, finest cars around and great reputation. Long before Car Max, he'd purchase very nice used cars at more than other dealers. However, he also regularly drove around the country side. He never used the interstate, but he looked for cars along the way for sale and some not for sale. He'd see a car in a front yard of a farm house and pull up. He'd offer cash right then and his wife was a notary so could complete the deal on the spot. People would sell to him who had no plans of selling, really on impulse.

We buy small businesses and guarantee closing within 7 days from our offer, doing all due diligence and other in that time. The norm is months and most never complete. I recall Wayne Huizenga (who I'm not a fan of) making the statement decades ago that all his business negotiations for acquisitions were negotiated in a maximum of 3 days. He'd tell his lawyers and the other side that he wanted to make the purchase and they had 3 days to make it work. Contracts had to be short and succinct too. Many good deals for both sides are ruined by teams of people nit picking the agreements for months over things really immaterial.

For the most part, the kinds of deals we're talking about here though are cash which can be now vs. financing which can easily drag out for a month or more. In that case, cash may get the best deal.

BandB,


Excellent points!


Expediency works wonders. No lawyers and accountants help. There's an argument that if it's a real deal, close it in a few hours.... maybe a day if you need a surveyor or second opinion..... but keep the fuse really short.
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Old 10-08-2019, 09:45 PM   #87
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I'd change the phrase to "I get better deals with immediacy." If you can complete the deal right then, it pays. Now, if you have financing lined up and do that subsequently or immediately, no issue. However, if one has to wait, it's a different story.

We bought our condo slip that way. It was a bank foreclosure and they just wanted to be rid of it. It was during the height of the recession and banks didnít want to loan on anything out of the ordinary. We made a cash offer at a ridiculously low price. The bank jumped at it to get it off their books ASAP.

Generally, I think that is an unusual situation and most sellers donít care about cash buyers or not unless the seller is in a hurry.
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:06 PM   #88
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I cant speak for other but, I dont carry around $100-$200K cash in my back pocket.
So I guess they will just have to accept my check LOL
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:56 AM   #89
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We've bought out last three boats using savings (and the proceeds from the previous boat).

We're kind of Dave Ramsey like, we don't like debt. And, we liked retiring in our fifties.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:38 PM   #90
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We bought our condo slip that way. It was a bank foreclosure and they just wanted to be rid of it. It was during the height of the recession and banks didnít want to loan on anything out of the ordinary. We made a cash offer at a ridiculously low price. The bank jumped at it to get it off their books ASAP.

Generally, I think that is an unusual situation and most sellers donít care about cash buyers or not unless the seller is in a hurry.

Dave,


True, most sellers don't care. But there's enough that do and there's some really hungry ones occasionally.



I really like the nothing down, take over existing 3% loan, and seller carry balance at 0 percent for 10 years. And, yes, there are deals like that out there.


When ya save $50K in interest and equity it could be worth working hard for it. That's more than a whole weeks pay for most of us.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #91
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This seems like an idle curiosity question rather than one seeking advice. Given that there are no interest-free loans for boats as often available for automobiles, the answer should be "depends on an individual's personal financial circumstances". Only logical reason to get a boat loan is if you can not afford to buy outright. Even assuming the tax deduction for high tax rate individuals, the net cost will exceed current pitifully low savings interest rates - not to mention better investment options. Using a home loan may benefit from a better loan rate than a straight boat loan but is capped by the IRS at $100K.
Plus, boats depreciate just like cars, but are not usually tradeable like cars, and the broker takes 10%, so it can easy to get "upside down" on the loan come time to sell.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:44 PM   #92
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This seems like an idle curiosity question rather than one seeking advice. Given that there are no interest-free loans for boats as often available for automobiles, the answer should be "depends on an individual's personal financial circumstances". Only logical reason to get a boat loan is if you can not afford to buy outright. Even assuming the tax deduction for high tax rate individuals, the net cost will exceed current pitifully low savings interest rates - not to mention better investment options. Using a home loan may benefit from a better loan rate than a straight boat loan but is capped by the IRS at $100K.
Plus, boats depreciate just like cars, but are not usually tradeable like cars, and the broker takes 10%, so it can easy to get "upside down" on the loan come time to sell.
I have not read this entire thread, but there are some cracks in your 'logical reasoning'.
For one many people have the cash but still get a loan. Maybe if one had "X" times the cash of the cost of a certain boat, the logical conclusion would be to buy the boat. So each boat buyer likely has a different definition of what "can afford" means to them in relation to their cash on hand.
Another assumption you make is that all boats depreciate. Sure most of the do. But a lot of boaters buy boats that are already depreciated and dont really depreciate much as long as basic maintenance is performed regularly.
Another thing to keep in mind is some buyers choose to take a loan so they can invest cash in stocks or real estate or whatever woul give them a higher rate of return on investment than the interest rate (cost) of a loan.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:25 PM   #93
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LIke I said "depends on the individual's personal circumstances" but taking a boat loan just to invest in the stock market IMO doubles down on the risk equation. Taking a boat loan because of buying a home and having, in effect, 2 mortgages is a matter of choice and risk tolerance. But everybody is different.
Also, would guess that any boat that is not depreciating is hard to insure adequately and just as hard to get a loan on.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:29 PM   #94
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Also, would guess that any boat that is not depreciating is hard to insure adequately and just as hard to get a loan on.
I would think a bank would rather give a loan on a non depreciating asset rather than one that depreciates quickly.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #95
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LIke I said "depends on the individual's personal circumstances" but taking a boat loan just to invest in the stock market IMO doubles down on the risk equation. Taking a boat loan because of buying a home and having, in effect, 2 mortgages is a matter of choice and risk tolerance. But everybody is different.
I have friends who have everything they own mortgaged to the hilt in order to invest in commercial real estate. The have been doing it for 20 years now successfully. I haven't done it because of the percieved risk involved. But fter witnessing their financial success, I'm starting to think I have missed the boat , so to speak.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:39 PM   #96
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Perhaps you have!!! Perhaps not!! At least you own depreciating boat!!!
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:45 PM   #97
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I have not read this entire thread, but there are some cracks in your 'logical reasoning'.
For one many people have the cash but still get a loan. Maybe if one had "X" times the cash of the cost of a certain boat, the logical conclusion would be to buy the boat. So each boat buyer likely has a different definition of what "can afford" means to them in relation to their cash on hand.
Another assumption you make is that all boats depreciate. Sure most of the do. But a lot of boaters buy boats that are already depreciated and dont really depreciate much as long as basic maintenance is performed regularly.
Another thing to keep in mind is some buyers choose to take a loan so they can invest cash in stocks or real estate or whatever woul give them a higher rate of return on investment than the interest rate (cost) of a loan.
Correct, bligh!

We currently own three boats as well as several autos and trucks/suv. Two SUV's are the ones that somewhat depreciate... cause... when we purchased they had not yet fully depreciated and are not of a year or model providing intrinsic value. Pretty much the rest of em are worth what we paid years ago [depreciasion not accounted for] or worth considerably more... such as; 1967 Buick Wildcat - Classic Luxury Muscle car and a really cool 1985 vintage Chevy Cheyenne 1T, 4WD, 4 spd, w/ HP 350 cid/325 hp engine and 4" lift.

Regarding the boats: Last two sold we made considerable additional $$$ money above purchase price; even after years of owning. Our Tolly is worth about the same [maybe a tad more] as our purchase price 10 years ago. Cute tow behind Crestliner 4-seater w/ 50 hp Johnson and galve trailer is worth over 2X. People love it! We've had it for 9 years. 1989 19' Blue Water brand, cuddy cabin ski boat is a whole different story... family death and all that. It's 100% profit when we eventually sell, sans some restore stuff. Haven't completed it yet. Probably will keep it for a while... fun in the sun. Maybe to tow behind our RV. And, Oh Yeah; almost forgot the RV, it's worth more than paid for!

As you can see - we purchase carefully and take care of out units. For me [once we decide to purchase]; cash on the barrelhead gets deals done very quickly - and, at "my" right price! Otherwise, I'm never afraid to walk away from any deal, or to go full-in - depending on circumstances.

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Old 10-09-2019, 04:59 PM   #98
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[QUOTE=Chrisjs;809679]This seems like an idle curiosity question rather than one seeking advice. Given that there are no interest-free loans for boats as often available for automobiles, /QUOTE]

Let's be clear those are not interest free either. You can get them or cash incentives, so there's really interest being paid.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:04 PM   #99
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Everything in life, especially in boating is a trade-off!! No such thing as a really free lunch!!
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:15 PM   #100
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I love dealing with our tenants, the stuff they do and say ...very entertaining.
I could write a book.
Yep, my favorite text from a tenant (young lady) "Help Mr. Charles, my bathroom is broken". I replied "can you be a bit more specific, ie is there water on the floor?". She said no, when I push the toilet flush handle nothing happens. Easy fix.

When we start the LOOP next Oct I will turn my 17 properties over to a Property Manager for 7% of gross rents (already agreed).
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