Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-22-2017, 09:38 PM   #21
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,947
I would contact the owner of the Hatteras after you have a rough estimate of damages, and ask him if he would like to handle this without involving his insurance company. After all his boat broke free and hit yours. Nothing else matters.

If he declines, contact your insurance company and tell them the Hatteras broke free from where it was docked and struck your boat where it was docked. Nothing else is relevant. Answer your insurance company's questions, but don't offer unsolicited information. This is one of those situations where additional information can't benefit your outcome and could hurt you down the road.

If I were the insurance company and read the original post, I might ask, "Since you recognized that your boat was in a potentially dangerous situation, and nobody else was willing to rectify that situation, why did you ignore it by not moving your vessel?"

Ted
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 10:03 PM   #22
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC View Post


Me? I'd get a team of drunken leprechauns to represent me in all legal proceedings and hope a pot of gold (and some Klondike Bars) come my way. In looking at the photos above, I'm betting we have an argument going on soon about your anchor!
There is the answer sir! Klondike bars and drunken leprechauns 😎
__________________

__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 10:08 PM   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar


 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,228
First, as others have indicated run this through your insurance company. They will take care of you.

Just me making a armchair analysis here's how I see it from the details provided.

You gotta not think of who hit you, so much as you gotta think about negligence. Just because someone's boat hits your boat does not mean they are negligent. I know it sounds that way, but it really isn't.

The Hatteras side tied to the tollycraft. Was he negligent in doing so? Maybe yes, maybe no. First he tied to a much smaller boat, that might be a bit negligent. Did he make sure based on the currents that he was tying securely? Is he negligent because he did not check how the tolly was tied to the dock and check the strength of the cleats?

The Tolly owner tied to the dock, and the cleats came loose. Does that make the Tolly owner negligent? Should he have checked the cleats better? He could argue that he just tied his boat to the dock, and the cleats would have held fine if the Hatteras would not have put additional strain on them.

Is the owner of the dock negligent? Did he not maintain his cleats properly? Were they undersized for the anticipated loads? Did he take into account that people would be "rafting" boats together when he built the dock?

Was the YC "master" that directed the Hatteras to raft to the tolly negligent? Did he assume that the cleats would hold? Did he check the cleats? Did he direct the Tolly owner to use extra cleats because of the increased loads anticipated due to the rafting of boats together.

You see... Negligence in this situation is pretty difficult to determine. Your insurance company might try to subrogate to the other owners, but being as they all seem to have suffered some damage, and being how difficult it will be to apply negligence, they will probably just pay your claim and be done with it.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.boatparts4less.com
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:26 PM   #24
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,151
I'd hope my insurance company would assist in recovering the $5000 deductible of my policy. If not, small claims court would be plan B.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:42 PM   #25
Guru
 
City: Port Townsend
Country: North America
Vessel Name: The Promise
Vessel Model: Roughwater 35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
It may come down to an insurance claim.

We left early the next morning as he was pinned against the dock with the current. Good thing too. When he was leaving he took a line from his windlass to a post on his stbd, up river. I guess he thought he could winch hos bow up enough to get him stated. He started to motor up attempting to put some slack in the line. He throttled up more, sucked in a lod and there pieces of wood fling everywhere. Frustrated he applied full throttle, snapped the cabe and part of the dock flew into the bow, nicking his wofe as she hit the deck. Would have killed her if she was standing. As he is leavind he tore up the club's dock. Had I not left early he would have done major damage to me.
He sounds like a real menace.

But the day before when the dock cleats ripped out, how did the two boats not take off down the river?
dhmeissner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:42 PM   #26
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,456
Immediately contact your insurer. Even if someone else says they'll take care of it. All the time people promise to do so, then don't, and you're on the hook for never reporting it. If you report it and don't ultimately end up making a claim, then great. Get all information on the other boats and obtain their insurance, although might be late for that unless yacht club has the information.

Now, who was at fault. You, both other boats and the yacht club. Probably the only one though that can escape liability is the yacht club depending on your dockage contract. Normally they're written well enough to protect them from everything involving other boats. The only reason they might not be able to escape liability is that you told them of the problem and they failed to respond. That can turn poor management into negligence. However, I'd leave all the legal aspects of it to your insurer, just provide them with all information. In addition to compensating you for damage, another thing insurers often do is protect your interest. They do so because it benefits them, but still it is help.

Your lesson, a difficult one, to trust your instincts and take action if not comfortable even if it makes you have to be a bad guy. That means when the Tolly overstays a few hours, you go back to the dockmaster, If he won't remedy it, you ask for your money back and depart. I see people regularly accept bad slip assignments and acting as if the dockmaster is god, which some think they are. Someone who knows that getting in and out of their slip with their boat without damage is extremely problematic. Someone else takes a slip or dock where they know that their draft is really too close to the depth for comfort. We have approached a marina and, in spite of previous agreement, they were trying to put us on the end dock in a shallow area. The side tie area we'd been promised had a small boat docked with about half our draft. We turned around to leave and about five minutes later got a call back from the dockmaster asking us to return, which we did.

There are marinas that raft all the time and have extremely heavy duty cleats, many extra cleats, and always arrange the largest closest to the dock, even if it means moving some boats around. They also observe the rafting to make sure everyone has tied to their satisfaction. Then I know others that are helter skelter and they just randomly place boats as they come in and no part of their dock is designed to handle the boats.

Dockmasters often have difficult jobs but they have responsibilities as well. Whether legally liable or not, the one in this case failed to do their job. I've seen some incredible dockmasters who carefully inspected how every boat on the transient dock tied.

We all hate to make waves at marinas or in anchorages, but unfortunately we sometimes have to as others are irresponsible. Who here hasn't had someone start to anchor too close. We don't anchor much but have certainly encountered that. Half the time you could politely tell them and they'd move a bit before anchoring. The other half we've had to move. Makes you angry to have to move because of what someone else did, but better than taking the risk.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:47 PM   #27
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,151
Our local Army Corps of Engineers have been collecting dozen of tons of flotsam daily from the San Francisco Bay/Delta this season.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 11:50 PM   #28
Guru
 
City: ??
Country: ??
Vessel Name: ??
Vessel Model: ??
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,370
Sorry to hear you got hit.

First thing is report what happened to your insurance company, first thing. Do not wait. Do not at this time try to assign blame no matter how you feel. Do only the work needed to ensure the safety of the boat and any people. Screw this up and any future possibility of reimbursement may be in question.

I understand you being annoyed/mad and upset but do not let that sway you from the most important action, reporting the problem.

As already said let the insurance companies hammer out who is responsible and to what degree.

Once reported and the process started I'm sure the ins. co. will have questions so they can sort out who pays what.


Three years ago my boat got hit. The boat was still safe to operate so I did the patch work needed to get home but even then I emailed the ins. co. that a collision occurred. Once home they sent an adjuster to inspect the damage and make a report to the ins. co. No problem with the claim.

First order of business is to ensure you are protected.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 12:25 AM   #29
Guru
 
Crusty Chief's Avatar
 
City: Las Vegas/Portland
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pairadice
Vessel Model: Selene 47
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,339
Gonna have a few more cocktails and sort this out. Went out and checked the cleats on the concrete dock this afternoon, they seem to be solid and in good condition. Good to go, and now I'm almost out of ice. Good thing the ice maker is working fine.
Suggest you have a couple stiff ones and call the insurance, let them sort it out.
We will try and come down to see ya next weekend while your in the yard, need me to bring anything?
__________________
John & Tracey
Pairadice S4714
http://mvpairadice.blogspot.com/
" I can explain, but I can't make you understand"
Crusty Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 10:53 AM   #30
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhmeissner View Post
He sounds like a real menace.

But the day before when the dock cleats ripped out, how did the two boats not take off down the river?
The bow of the Hat hit us while the rest of the boat was pinned against the club house.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 10:58 AM   #31
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,526
So common theme here is report to the insurance company. If the damage is minimal I can fix it why report it? Doesn't reporting to the Insurance company for damage less than the deductible ding your insurance and increase the premium?


Heading to Ilwaco today, dry dock tomorrow for a week, so I will be able to see damage up close.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 11:26 AM   #32
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
So common theme here is report to the insurance company. If the damage is minimal I can fix it why report it? Doesn't reporting to the Insurance company for damage less than the deductible ding your insurance and increase the premium?


Heading to Ilwaco today, dry dock tomorrow for a week, so I will be able to see damage up close.
If the damage is less than your deductible, then I wouldn't report it. From the description just didn't picture it being that little. This is also based on the assumption you didn't hit another boat, just got hit, so you have no possible liability.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 12:21 PM   #33
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: ACIW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,902
In my experience, filing a claim where you had little or nothing to do with the fault doesn't necessarily hurt you....you have to guess whether that will ultimately apply.

Not reporting and then becoming involved can have negative consequences too.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 12:28 PM   #34
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
In my experience, filing a claim where you had little or nothing to do with the fault doesn't necessarily hurt you....you have to guess whether that will ultimately apply.

Not reporting and then becoming involved can have negative consequences too.
I've also found filing and withdrawing a claim has no effect. You make them aware and then cancel it.
BandB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 01:58 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Acheron2010's Avatar
 
City: New Tazewell
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Saoirse
Vessel Model: 1983 Nauticat 44 Ketch
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 151
Your insurance will handle the damages.
Going forward, what will the yacht club do in the future to minimize the recurrence of this event? Does the dockmaster have written policies regarding when to allow side ties, multiple side ties, end ties, etc.
In your opinion, should the 60 Hat been waived off, or should the Tolly be asked to shuffle and allow the longer boat dockside?
Acheron2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 02:28 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
City: Jarrettsville, MD.
Country: usa
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 30' Rumrunner
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 138
Alaskan Sea-Duction,
File with the insurance company and cover your ass sets. Like several others stated, OC Diver, Answer your insurance company's questions, but don't offer unsolicited information. I HOPE THE WIFE OF THE AHOLE ON THE Hat IS OK.
jskinner30PII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 10:18 AM   #37
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskinner30PII View Post
Alaskan Sea-Duction,
File with the insurance company and cover your ass sets. Like several others stated, OC Diver, Answer your insurance company's questions, but don't offer unsolicited information. I HOPE THE WIFE OF THE AHOLE ON THE Hat IS OK.
She is fine with a few cuts and bruises....
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 12:37 PM   #38
Guru
 
Off Duty's Avatar
 
City: Tampa
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 844
Interesting stuff...
__________________
"I'm the only one who has removed half a brain, but if you went to Washington, you'd think someone beat me to it"...Dr. Ben Carson 08-06-2015
Off Duty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 03:40 PM   #39
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,526
On the hard. Dropped the anchor and inspected the bow pulpit. It appears the teflon took the majority of the impact. I have some gel-coat repair to do, so no big deal. Already have a new strip of teflon.
__________________
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
https://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 04:35 PM   #40
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,154
You guys are so cruel! Nobody mentioned the loss of the Canadian Red Ensign! That is the real tragedy here, gelcoat schmelcoat!
__________________

__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012