Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2013, 07:46 AM   #1
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,386
Boat Listings

Obviously, there's something I don't understand about the boating market, but why would YW have 5 listings of the same boat at 3 different price points ~$100K apart? I see there are multiple brokers involved, but why so many? And a $100 delta? Yikes!


1999 Defever Cockpit MY Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1999 Defever Cockpit Motoryacht Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=21624&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=38308&url=

1999 Defever Sundeck/hardtop Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
__________________
Advertisement

angus99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 10:55 AM   #2
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,882
There are a number of reasons for this. The most common is that the boat was listed with one broker, the seller canceled that listing and selected another broker and the first broker never removed his listing on Yachtworld.

The other possibility is that there are several brokers who have non-exclusive listings for the same boat. These kind of listings are mostly worthless and when I was a broker in Annapolis we wouldn't take one. But they still occur.

The public version of Yachtworld doesn't tell you if it is an exclusive or non-exclusive listing but the broker's version does. So if there are multiple listings, call the broker with the lowest price and confirm that his is THE exclusive listing.

If all of them are non-exclusive listings, here is a trick that is perfectly legitimate. With the boat name if you can get it from the listing, go on the USCG web site and search for the owner. If it is federally documented (and 99.9% of these boats will be) it will be there, then write to the owner telling him you want to buy directly.

David
__________________

djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 11:55 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Being a real estate broker, I find your advice to be rather unethical.

I can see why you're no longer in the business.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 02:06 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
bluebyu's Avatar
 
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 38MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 302
What is wrong with contacting the seller directly?

Seems as if it would depend on his contract with the broker.
bluebyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 02:39 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebyu View Post
What is wrong with contacting the seller directly?

Seems as if it would depend on his contract with the broker.
Where did you find the boat?

The owners ad or the brokers ad?

With it being on Yachtworld, means which?
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 05:52 PM   #6
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebyu View Post
What is wrong with contacting the seller directly?

Seems as if it would depend on his contract with the broker.
Yacht brokers spent the money to advertise the boat. I agree with Beachbum. It is totally unethical to go behind the sign and deal with the owner . Let the broker work the deal and get his due payment.
If you observe a boat going by you and look up the name of the owner, I wouldn't think that is a problem.
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:37 AM   #7
Guru
 
Conrad's Avatar
 
City: Calgary
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blue Sky
Vessel Model: Nordic Tugs 42 Hull #001
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
Yacht brokers spent the money to advertise the boat. I agree with Beachbum. It is totally unethical to go behind the sign and deal with the owner . Let the broker work the deal and get his due payment.
If you observe a boat going by you and look up the name of the owner, I wouldn't think that is a problem.
Also agree; brokers generally put in time, money and effort into marketing a vessel. Cutting them out is unethical and can be cause for legal action.

If the broker is a complete bonehead (it happens in every profession) there is usually a 90 day clause that you have to wait out and then all options are on the table. In today's market that could also lead to a further price reduction.
__________________
Conrad
Berthed in
Campbell River BC
Conrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:45 AM   #8
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
DJ,
Your being a former broker I'm amazed you would give that advice. The owner in signing a non-exclusive listing has still contracted with the broker to pay them a commission for a sale to a buyer obtained through the broker's efforts. Thank God your not a broker anymore. It's amazing how easy my job is when I'm competing with brokers like you. Sorry but you deserved this.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 06:14 AM   #9
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,633
This is what is called an "open listing". Which means ANYONE can sell the boat.....including the owner. If the owner sells the boat on his own, then no commission is paid to ANY broker...listing or otherwise. In a "normal" listing(ie an exclusive or "central" listing"), the listing broker is always going to get a commission. He will get all of it or split it if he "Co-brokers" it with another broker. Many/most brokers will not do an open listing. And many/most brokers will accept a co-broker as long as the "co-broker" reciprocates. That is ultimately what yacht brokerage is based on.

Owners usually do an open listing because they want some control over the sale of the boat. I personally think y'all are being a bit tough on DJ. It is not illegal as some have suggested. Everything Conrad says above is true if it is a central/exclusive listing....NOT an open listing. DJ's advice is based on the premise that you will get a better deal through the owner since he will not have to pay a commission. I believe this to be the risk a broker takes when he accepts(agrees to) an open listing....regardless of the ethics involved. IOW, it is the broker's "fault" if a buyer skirts the broker because that is exactly what he is agreeing to.

Now to answer another part of your question and Daddyo can help me here. There is something on the Broker side of Yachtworld that alerts a broker when there is a price change if a broker is watching a particular boat for a client. So when they change it by just $100, it puts it back at the top of a broker's watch list....or something like that. But there is a feature on the broker side of YW which could encourage a price change...ie is advantageous to the listing broker.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 06:41 AM   #10
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
If the buyer "discovers" the boat from the broker's ad then the buyer belongs to the broker and he should not be cut out. This is obvious. Yes price changes will ping a boat listing.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 07:19 AM   #11
Veteran Member
 
City: Palma
Country: Spain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 79
Finding a buyer/seller privately should IMHO at least render You a lower brokers fee, if You are still under contract. Did this a number of times w. real estate.
Jonza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 07:56 AM   #12
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,386
Thanks for the replies on what sounds like a touchy subject. To be clear, once I am in the market I will not be trying to screw a broker out of a legitimate commission. But when there is a $110,000 difference in two listings for the same boat, that in itself raises some ethical questions--especially when comparable boats are priced below the lower of these two listings. Outdated ad? Maybe, but there's no excuse for allowing it to remain active. I know "let the buyer beware" applies here, as it does anywhere, so I would simply run from anyone (seller or broker) associated with listings like that--just as I'd run from somebody selling a $70,000 Kia.

(Just noticed the typo in my first post; should have been "a $100K delta." Sorry.)
angus99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 08:40 AM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
If the buyer "discovers" the boat from the broker's ad then the buyer belongs to the broker and he should not be cut out. This is obvious. Yes price changes will ping a boat listing.
Thanks! And I fully agree!!! And I will say that my most recent boat purchase, both my broker and the listing broker were absolutely awesome!!! And they continue to be after the purchase. Sometimes brokers get a bad name by the behavior of just a few. I can honestly say, I never would have got this deal done without those two guys!
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 09:58 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
If the buyer "discovers" the boat from the broker's ad then the buyer belongs to the broker and he should not be cut out. This is obvious. Yes price changes will ping a boat listing.
100% correct.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post

Thanks! And I fully agree!!! And I will say that my most recent boat purchase, both my broker and the listing broker were absolutely awesome!!! And they continue to be after the purchase. Sometimes brokers get a bad name by the behavior of just a few. I can honestly say, I never would have got this deal done without those two guys!
My most recent purchase wouldn't have happened without my broker.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 10:04 AM   #16
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonza View Post
Finding a buyer/seller privately should IMHO at least render You a lower brokers fee, if You are still under contract. Did this a number of times w. real estate.
Most for sale by owner real estate is over priced by unrealistic sellers. Proven by stats.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #17
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Thanks for the replies on what sounds like a touchy subject. To be clear, once I am in the market I will not be trying to screw a broker out of a legitimate commission. But when there is a $110,000 difference in two listings for the same boat, that in itself raises some ethical questions--especially when comparable boats are priced below the lower of these two listings. Outdated ad? Maybe, but there's no excuse for allowing it to remain active. I know "let the buyer beware" applies here, as it does anywhere, so I would simply run from anyone (seller or broker) associated with listings like that--just as I'd run from somebody selling a $70,000 Kia.

(Just noticed the typo in my first post; should have been "a $100K delta." Sorry.)
We had a thread here last year by I believe a member named dswizzler where he found his boat was for sale on Yachtworld. I suspect you are seeing shill ads.

I've run across "ethical brokers" with shill ads to do the bait and switch on unsuspecting clients. So let's not pretend all brokers are as pure as the wind driven snow. I find it impossible to believe there are THAT many open listings on Yachtworld.

As an ex realtor I'd never accept a non-exclusive listing and neither would I suspect a successful and ethical yacht broker.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:02 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post


As an ex realtor I'd never accept a non-exclusive listing and neither would I suspect a successful and ethical yacht broker.
We will only accept exclusive listings.

Via IDX we display all listings on our websites that we choose.

There are plenty on unethical realtors and yacht brokers out there. They dirty up the business and give us all a bad name.

__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:20 PM   #19
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum29 View Post
There are plenty on unethical realtors and yacht brokers out there. They dirty up the business and give us all a bad name.
Ain't that the truth... So you can hardly blame customers from trying to try and skirt using them.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 04:04 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post

Ain't that the truth... So you can hardly blame customers from trying to try and skirt using them.
We all suffer from it.

Just because a few are bad doesn't give people the right to try and screw us. They are real POS for doing it.

It's like it's ok for the public in general to be unethical?

Did I get this right?
__________________

__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012