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Old 06-09-2013, 04:10 PM   #21
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So let's not pretend all brokers are as pure as the wind driven snow. .
Amen, brother. Such has been my experience.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:12 PM   #22
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Amen, brother. Such has been my experience.
Has anyone stated that?
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #23
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Has anyone stated that?
Not to my knowledge but the inference has certainly been there.

Let me paint a scenario for you that happened to me about 13 years ago.

I met with a broker and communicated exactly what I was looking for in a boat. Twins, cruise at 20+ knots, Cat engines, 2 state rooms, fly bridge, cockpit, etc. Months went buy without hearing from the broker so I started a search on my own. After looking at everything in the San Diego area, I expanded the search to Newport Beach. I repeated my wants to the first brokerage house I walked into and the guy immediately said, "I have a boat out back in the water that meets with every thing you've outlined. ( I thought to myself, "man, a used car salesman.") We went down to his dock and there she was! A 42' Ocean Alexander. 20knot cruise, Cat 375s, 2 state rooms, a fly bridge and a cockpit. Not to mention "Bristol" condition! I bought the boat on the spot and days later, after a sea trial and survey, drove her the 60+ miles to San Diego.

When I got back to San Diego, I called the broker who I had listed with and told him what I had done and he flew into a rage! He wanted half the commission that was paid to the Newport Broker by the seller. I told him to take it up with that broker, which he did, to no avail.

Now, what would have been the proper thing to do in such a case. Pay the broker I signed with for doing absolutely nothing?
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Old 06-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #24
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Well, it looks like I have set off a s***storm. Obviously when I described contacting the owner directly I was speaking about an open listing. An open listing gives the listing broker no protection whatsoever from other entities contacting the seller and buying/brokering the boat.

I learned this "trick" from working for one of the most ethical yacht brokers in Annapolis. The owner was president of YBAA at the time. We were encouraged (tacitly) to do this. If we had a customer who was interested in an open listing (not ours, we didn't have any) then we were told to find the owner and deal directly with him if we could.

Of course since we had no contract with the buyer, he could also have stiffed us and gone directly to the seller. I suppose it happens.

The best way to avoid all of this questionable ethics dealing is to find a broker that you like and at least have a reasonable trust in and work with him exclusively. He will be able to work deals better than you, find a surveyor who is impartial, arrange financing, etc.

I realize that going around an open broker and stealing his listing sounds unethical and maybe it is in a pure sense. The world of yacht brokerage isn't so pure however.

The best way for a broker to keep it from happening to him is to not take open listings. 5 listings on Yachtworld is a pretty good indication that some of them were open. And how about the broker who kept a lost listing active. How ethical was he in creating all of this confusion about price and whether he did or did not have an exclusive listing?

When I read about the 5 listings and the mess that was obviously in play, my inclination was to find the owner and deal with him directly.

David
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:16 PM   #25
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Not to my knowledge but the inference has certainly been there.

Let me paint a scenario for you that happened to me about 13 years ago.

I met with a broker and communicated exactly what I was looking for in a boat. Twins, cruise at 20+ knots, Cat engines, 2 state rooms, fly bridge, cockpit, etc. Months went buy without hearing from the broker so I started a search on my own. After looking at everything in the San Diego area, I expanded the search to Newport Beach. I repeated my wants to the first brokerage house I walked into and the guy immediately said, "I have a boat out back in the water that meets with every thing you've outlined. ( I thought to myself, "man, a used car salesman.") We went down to his dock and there she was! A 42' Ocean Alexander. 20knot cruise, Cat 375s, 2 state rooms, a fly bridge and a cockpit. Not to mention "Bristol" condition! I bought the boat on the spot and days later, after a sea trial and survey, drove her the 60+ miles to San Diego.

When I got back to San Diego, I called the broker who I had listed with and told him what I had done and he flew into a rage! He wanted half the commission that was paid to the Newport Broker by the seller. I told him to take it up with that broker, which he did, to no avail.

Now, what would have been the proper thing to do in such a case. Pay the broker I signed with for doing absolutely nothing?
You were totally within your rights to do what you did
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:18 PM   #26
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Well, it looks like I have set off a s***storm. Obviously when I described contacting the owner directly I was speaking about an open listing. An open listing gives the listing broker no protection whatsoever from other entities contacting the seller and buying/brokering the boat.

I learned this "trick" from working for one of the most ethical yacht brokers in Annapolis. The owner was president of YBAA at the time. We were encouraged (tacitly) to do this. If we had a customer who was interested in an open listing (not ours, we didn't have any) then we were told to find the owner and deal directly with him if we could.

Of course since we had no contract with the buyer, he could also have stiffed us and gone directly to the seller. I suppose it happens.

The best way to avoid all of this questionable ethics dealing is to find a broker that you like and at least have a reasonable trust in and work with him exclusively. He will be able to work deals better than you, find a surveyor who is impartial, arrange financing, etc.

I realize that going around an open broker and stealing his listing sounds unethical and maybe it is in a pure sense. The world of yacht brokerage isn't so pure however.

The best way for a broker to keep it from happening to him is to not take open listings. 5 listings on Yachtworld is a pretty good indication that some of them were open. And how about the broker who kept a lost listing active. How ethical was he in creating all of this confusion about price and whether he did or did not have an exclusive listing?

When I read about the 5 listings and the mess that was obviously in play, my inclination was to find the owner and deal with him directly.

David
If you find this boat on a yacht brokers ad, the correct thing to do is contact that broker for info and sales assistance.

I would walk away from a listing like that. Something is wrong.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:29 PM   #27
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If you find this boat on a yacht brokers ad, the correct thing to do is contact that broker for info and sales assistance.
I think your missing DM's point here. If there are multiple listings of the same boat then what broker do you contact? I was looking at a 77 footer, but it is listed with 4 different brokers and apparently it's located in several different places in the world too, so I walked! Next time, I'll contact the seller directly. He can work it out with whatever broker. His deal, not mine...
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:35 PM   #28
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I think your missing DM's point here. If there are multiple listings of the same boat then what broker do you contact? I was looking at a 77 footer, but it is listed with 4 different brokers and apparently it's located in several different places in the world too, so I walked! Next time, I'll contact the seller directly. He can work it out with whatever broker. His deal, not mine...
Not missing the point. Multiple listed boats are usually owned by non cooperative owners.

Unless its a 1 of a kind, which none are, move on.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:40 PM   #29
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We can sit here and list scenarios.

Bottom line.

If you see the boat listed with a broker, contact them.

Most have exclusive listings.

Otherwise, be a scumbag, we get paid anyway.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #30
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Otherwise, be a scumbag, we get paid anyway.
??? So much for seeing the other guy's point.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #31
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??? So much for seeing the other guy's point.
You don't.

You pick crap out of context to make your own point.

Hello CNN, Fox News...

This is Americana at it's best.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:54 PM   #32
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You don't.

You pick crap out of context to make your own point..
Sticks & stones, Beach...sticks & stones
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:56 PM   #33
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Sticks & stones, Beach...sticks & stones
Lets throw some sand in each others eyes...

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:58 PM   #34
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Lets throw some sand in each others eyes...

That sounds like fun! Where at?
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:00 PM   #35
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Your gonna have to come get us. The latest is getting a refit down in Stuart.

Ponce Inlet
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:03 PM   #36
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Your gonna have to come get us.
Us? What do you mean us? I guess we're both pretty safe as we live on opposite corners of the country.
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #37
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Us? What do you mean us? I guess we're both pretty safe as we live on opposite corners of the country.
Looks that way. Safe for you.I'm crazy...

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Old 06-09-2013, 07:19 PM   #38
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Looks that way. Safe for you.I'm crazy...

You have to get the last word in, huh Beach? (Please don't respond to that as I do too!)
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #39
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An open listing gives the listing broker no protection whatsoever

The best way for a broker to keep it from happening to him is to not take open listings.
Your entire post is spot on David but the above is the most important. If a broker is STUPID enough to actively market and advertise an open listing he deserves to lose his fanny IMO. Don't pretend the broker was unaware of his lack of protection.

And if he's unethical enough to advertise a boat that is not for sale by him nor any other broker, or keep his expired listing advertised on yachtworld, (trolling for buyers to represent) he's pond slime of the highest order. Try either of those tactics on the MLS locally and find out what happens.

Nothing personal, it's called business.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:39 PM   #40
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Beachbum29. What I did was finding a buyer (in my local Pub, can You believe it) after my apartment(s) had been on the market w. a broker for several months and I negotiated a deal with the broker since it was still under contract = everybody was real happy (especially me ).
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