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Old 12-09-2014, 03:25 PM   #21
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Now as to the owners of Boat US, etc. It's Berkshire Hathaway, which is Buffett, but not Halliburton. Halliburton services oil fields, is controversial often, and Bush and Cheney at various times worked for parts of what is now Halliburton.
You are correct Berkshire Hathaway. That's what I get for using voice recognition to text and not checking my work!! Thanks for catching that, I wouldn't want it associated with Halliburton either!!
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:39 PM   #22
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I like BoatUS because the policy covers boating losses that most prudent owners want in the coverage. One I wouldn't want is Flo's Progressive, as soon as the agent wanted to know about the size of my outboards and didn't have a clue about inboard diesel power, and the question about my boat trailer, well that ended the inquiry.
One question that never made any sense is why companies won't insure full time live aboard since most of the losses I've seen are for non-live aboard boats.
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:48 PM   #23
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Liability seems to be higher (for liveaboards) and that often dwarfs just plain old hull loss if it's serious.

I know...doesn't really seem that way...but many of the best and brightest rarely have insurance claims and a lot of trawler types have done well in life and are at the top of their boating experience....but insurance never really looks at the individual too closely....just some blocks to check.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:13 PM   #24
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...but insurance never really looks at the individual too closely....just some blocks to check.
Once you cross 50' that changes considerably and the larger you get, the more they look at the owner or captain's experience and credentials. But on smaller boats, not. Even on larger it's used simply to decide whether to insure, but not for rate.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:29 PM   #25
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Once you cross 50' that changes considerably and the larger you get, the more they look at the owner or captain's experience and credentials. But on smaller boats, not. Even on larger it's used simply to decide whether to insure, but not for rate.
Must not be right at 50..a lot of my friends have/had up to 75 and they didn't have the credentials of a hummingbird...my point exactly...blocks not people....ya know the the people that make the boat go. from lines off, to oil changes to trip planning and execution....etc...

Been on a few "yachts" and it's pretty scary if the "crew" meet the kind of scrutiny I'm talking about for actually avoiding claims...
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:35 PM   #26
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Lots of info in this thread- some good, some not so bueno.

BandAid hits the nail on the head multiple times regarding Boat US- their book of business is overwhelmingly small boats (>30'), with an emphasis in the Gulf, Southeast US and Atlantic Seaboard waters. Hence, Boat US has also seen the largest swing in rate increases in the 10+ years I've been writing vessel insurance.

Edelweiss, here are some of the pitfalls in the Boat US policy language:


1)*** (Coverage A- Exclusions- 1) Mechanical breakdown is excluded. Consequential damages are only named perils.

2)*** (Coverage A- Exclusions- 5) Any loss caused by ice, freezing, thawing, or sudden temp change is excluded.

3)*** (Coverage A- Exclusions- 6) Overheating (regardless of cause) is excluded.

3)*** Heavy depreciation schedule on canvas, sails, etc

4)*** Marine salvage is limited to ACV of vessel vice agreed value.

5)*** (Coverage B- Liability) Cost to defend is included in coverage B vice being in addition to. Once the costs to defend meet the limits of Coverage B, coverage ceases; there are no further funds for settlement costs.

6)*** (Coverage F- Personal Effects)* This coverage extends to the named insured only.

7)*** (Coverage G- Uninsured Boater) This coverage extends to the named insured only.


Boat Us has a small footprint in the PNW- I believe Safeco has a larger book of marine business than Boat US.

You may believe that Boat US is a better policy because of their lack of survey requirements, but you do need to be aware that it's very likely that you will be challenged on the vessel value and material condition (to justify the valuation) if you have a loss. In my experience dealing with claims, I've seen minimal to no drama in claims with vessel insurers that have a 5 (or so) year survey requirement. I've also never heard of any insurer that requires a survey every 2-3 years when the vessel reaches 20 to 25 years of age. We live full time onboard a 1989 vessel; our last survey date is 2012, and the next will be required sometime in the 2017/2018 timeframe. Perfectly reasonable, in my opinion.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:38 PM   #27
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Once you cross 50' that changes considerably and the larger you get, the more they look at the owner or captain's experience and credentials. But on smaller boats, not. Even on larger it's used simply to decide whether to insure, but not for rate.
Up here the microscope comes out on owner/operators about the 75' range. Underwriting becomes much more critical of the owner's ability and experience to safely run the boat about that length.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:02 PM   #28
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Must not be right at 50..a lot of my friends have/had up to 75 and they didn't have the credentials of a hummingbird...my point exactly...blocks not people....ya know the the people that make the boat go. from lines off, to oil changes to trip planning and execution....etc...

Been on a few "yachts" and it's pretty scary if the "crew" meet the kind of scrutiny I'm talking about for actually avoiding claims...
I agree. . . You would think that more attention would be paid to captain/ crew training and experience, given the number of boating accidents?
I realize everybody has to start somewhere, but after witnessing a couple of docking incidents this summer with inexperienced skippers in 40' bare boat charters. Wow. . . I was shocked and amazed!!
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:43 PM   #29
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Any comments on Farmers Foremost boat policies?
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:13 PM   #30
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Must not be right at 50..a lot of my friends have/had up to 75 and they didn't have the credentials of a hummingbird...my point exactly...blocks not people....ya know the the people that make the boat go. from lines off, to oil changes to trip planning and execution....etc...

Been on a few "yachts" and it's pretty scary if the "crew" meet the kind of scrutiny I'm talking about for actually avoiding claims...
No, not necessarily at 50. The bigger it gets the greater the likelihood. And they generally accept experience claimed.

Just like flying too there are those licensed and irresponsible. I knew two brothers who were licensed pilots with their own small planes. One was extremely diligent. Always went through his check list carefully. I felt fine flying with him. The other brother would walk to the plane, open the door, turn the key and take off, doing no checking. Not only would I have never flown with him, his own brother wouldn't fly with him either.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:20 PM   #31
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Any comments on Farmers Foremost boat policies?
Yes. There are better policies available. The Foremost program was designed for smaller newer boats. Coverages are IMO minimal, and not satisfactory for a trawler.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:24 PM   #32
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No, not necessarily at 50. The bigger it gets the greater the likelihood. And they generally accept experience claimed.

Just like flying too there are those licensed and irresponsible. I knew two brothers who were licensed pilots with their own small planes. One was extremely diligent. Always went through his check list carefully. I felt fine flying with him. The other brother would walk to the plane, open the door, turn the key and take off, doing no checking. Not only would I have never flown with him, his own brother wouldn't fly with him either.
And my point is that both brothers probably would pay the same premiums if each had their own plane and the same ratings...
until something happened....
the real passed is that if the good brother had something happen totally beyond his control, odds are he would have higher premiums.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:31 PM   #33
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insurance

I found Boat US to be very good insurance if you have a claim, but they are a little pricey. I use National and they are $900 for a $125K hull value. Boat US was $2200 for the same amount of coverage.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:34 PM   #34
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Up here the microscope comes out on owner/operators about the 75' range. Underwriting becomes much more critical of the owner's ability and experience to safely run the boat about that length.
Here I've seen carriers start getting critical in that range too, but I've also seen them require a licensed captain to insure a 60' where the owner had never previously owned a boat of any size. He didn't like it when I told him I agreed that they should have refused him. The owner was furious, went to another insurer and lied about his experience.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:35 PM   #35
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And my point is that both brothers probably would pay the same premiums if each had their own plane and the same ratings...
until something happened....
the real passed is that if the good brother had something happen totally beyond his control, odds are he would have higher premiums.
You're correct as the insurer has no way to know until something happens.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:37 PM   #36
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Here I've seen carriers start getting critical in that range too, but I've also seen them require a licensed captain to insure a 60' where the owner had never previously owned a boat of any size. He didn't like it when I told him I agreed that they should have refused him. The owner was furious, went to another insurer and lied about his experience.
2 posts in a row you made my point.

Some insurance companies are clueless and the others really don't have the clearest of pictures of who/what they are insuring.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:04 PM   #37
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2 posts in a row you made my point.

Some insurance companies are clueless and the others really don't have the clearest of pictures of who/what they are insuring.
Well, I'm in agreement with you. Although lying on an insurance application can come back to really haunt one in the event of a claim. The thing is that many agents don't care either as they just want the sale and commission.

The part that seriously bothers me is that he'd put his family in harm's way.

I saw more boating insanity in a weekend on the lake we lived on than in a year on the coast. Fast boats, skiers, PWC's, high powered bass boats, and pontoons loaded with booze. And there were around 8 boat rentals on the lake and you can only imagine some of the renters.
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:43 PM   #38
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I was with state farm for 40+ years.....Until I realized they were hosing me on my homeowners....Double the rate of AARP's Hartford. I switched and saved over $1200/yr on my cars and home. Your mileage may vary, but I won't be going back..
We just did the same thing last week, we were with State F(h)arm for 35 years. Cars, home, rental homes...switched to Allstate and cut our premium in half
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Old 12-14-2014, 10:58 AM   #39
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Lots of info in this thread- some good, some not so bueno.


Boat Us has a small footprint in the PNW- I believe Safeco has a larger book of marine business than Boat US.
Hi Peter - I still carry SAFECO on our 1977 Tolly. Is your statement in bold above meant in jest or what you think is reality? Your feelings in general regarding SAFECO marine insurance qualifications and coverage actions upon problem occurrence??

Only reason I've not come to you for insurance coverage change is due to time constraints for boat doings via 91 yr old family matriarch's failing in-home health, pressing work requirements, and distance of boat from home.

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you... Oh yea, and, A Great New Year!

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