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Old 07-05-2012, 05:39 PM   #21
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We've had eight (including my wife and I) on the boat and while it posed no problems even during a rough-ish crossing of Rosario Strait, we would not carry any more than that. We limited the number of people on the flying bridge at any one time to six. When it was rough nobody wanted to ride up there, anyway.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:44 PM   #22
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No one is allowed on top while the Coot is underway.



Anyone see my missing "p".
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:00 PM   #23
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No one is allowed on top while the Coot is underway.



Anyone see my missing "p".
Is it in your head?
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:16 PM   #24
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Ours is 44' with an ample aft/sundeck.... we've had a couple of parties on her, and had I think about 20-22 people aboard....but we were at the dock and secure.... and I have even cut parties short when the drinking gets too heavy.....

The crying shame of it is that "children paid the ultimate price for the folly of the adults"!!

Even though I might anger some people... I often think that "licensing" recreational boat owners might not be a bad idea......
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #25
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I often think that "licensing" recreational boat owners might not be a bad idea......
Don't see how that would have avoided the tragedy.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:25 PM   #26
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Greetings,
Mr. markpierce. By any chance did your "p" go over the side?
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #27
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Don't see how that would have avoided the tragedy.
Sir, with all due respect... I think that a well educated and knowledgeable boater who has proven his proven his or her qualifications would have been more prudent than to have overloaded a 34' boat with 27 souls. There is no guarantee of that....but one can hope. There is so much stupidity that happens on the waters...and it seems that many Darwin awards are given out...but sadly...to the wrong people.

How do you justify the death of 3 children? And no, I am not a tree hugging whiny panzy wuss liberal feces eating moron....but I am a safe boater who happens to be a grandfather...who would do anything humanly possible to protect my precious passengers!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:12 PM   #28
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Sir, with all due respect... I think that a well educated and knowledgeable boater who has proven his proven his or her qualifications would have been more prudent than to have overloaded a 34' boat with 27 souls. There is no guarantee of that....but one can hope. There is so much stupidity that happens on the waters...and it seems that many Darwin awards are given out...but sadly...to the wrong people.

How do you justify the death of 3 children? And no, I am not a tree hugging whiny panzy wuss liberal feces eating moron....but I am a safe boater who happens to be a grandfather...who would do anything humanly possible to protect my precious passengers!!
Completely agree, at very least one should have to pass Power Squadron or equivalent. We need a licence to drive a car, how is this so different?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:21 PM   #29
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Completely agree, at very least one should have to pass Power Squadron or equivalent. We need a licence to drive a car, how is this so different?
I completely agree. Perhaps a Power Squadron or USCGA course would have educated this new boater that accidentally killed three kids? Perhaps not.

The point is a lot of experienced boaters feel what he did was criminal. If he had ANY training whatsoever, they may have had a valid point.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #30
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Even though I might anger some people... I often think that "licensing" recreational boat owners might not be a bad idea......
I agree with you. While I've heard all the arguments against it, and of course there is the costly bureaucracy that would have to be created to administer it, it's always seemed a bit bizzarre that a person needs training and a license to operate a plane or helicopter, training (formal or otherwise) and a license to operate a vehicle or motorcycle, a certificate to scuba dive----- yet all a person needs to operate a 60' boat is the money to buy it.

While the easy argument is that licensing won't prevent accidents, it doesn't prevent accidents in vehicles or planes either. Stupid is as stupid does.

But what training and licensing do accomplish is awareness. An idiot is going to be one no matter what, but if he or she has been exposed to the dangers of certain circumstances, or at least has been shown how to do things correctly, the odds of them making a mistake out of ignorance or following through on a dumb idea--- like putting 27 people on a 34' foot, lightweight boat with only ten or so lifejackets---- go way down.

There is no way to ensure absolute safety, and I'm not an advocate of bending over backwards trying to do so. I'm a fan of Chuck Darwin and I don't get all weepy over people doing dumb things and killing themselves. But so often these dumb things tend to kill other people who had no hand in being dumb. Like this recent incident. The owner is just fine. It's the three kids that paid the price for his ignorance or stupidity or both.

From the boating accidents that happen all over the country every year it's obvious that boats can be just as dangerous as planes, trains, and automobiles. And while one could say the number of boating accidents doesn't begin to approach the number of vehicle accidents, tell that to the parents of the three kids who drowned because a boater didn't have the sense or the training to know how many was too many for his boat.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:11 PM   #31
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... How do you justify the death of 3 children? ...
Jat, who do you see justifying the deaths? You're making a lot of presumptions/assumptions. To begin with, we know nothing about the skipper except he has a new boat and demonstrated an instance of poor judgment resulting in deaths.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:48 PM   #32
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A very sad event, made worse if it resulted from avoidable operator error, as seems highly possible.It is risky to speculate without all the facts,but if my IG36 had 27 onboard I`m sure the handling would be grossly altered and be susceptible to sea conditions which would otherwise be a non issue.
Trouble is,the inexperienced skipper does not know what he does not know, and easily falls into error, but you`d think commonsense would come into play.
In Sydney all boats are required to carry a sticker near the helm setting out the maximum number of persons who may be aboard. Maritime here uses the slogan "you`re the skipper,you`re responsible" (ie. "we, Maritime,are not"); when I asked for a replacement sticker they sent a blank one and told me to work out the limit myself!
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:41 PM   #33
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... when I asked for a replacement sticker they sent a blank one and told me to work out the limit myself!
Bruce, little doubt you'll use sound judgment.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:47 AM   #34
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Question for all. Do any of you have factory provided signage on your boat that states a rated capacity?

NAHHHH,

If the USN thought it was fine to operate daily with 150 Pax and 3 crew , it works for me.

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Old 07-06-2012, 08:13 AM   #35
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I have never had more than two people on board away from the dock.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:08 AM   #36
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My Clipper (CHB) 34 has an 'official' maritime safety sticker on the helm side window saying max 12 persons and no more than 3 at one time on the flybridge, so that gives you an idea how overloaded that craft was. Very sad, and so needless.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:13 AM   #37
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I found Coot's "P"
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:07 PM   #38
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The Eastland Disaster happened on July 24, 1915 when a chartered ship overturned in the Chicago River after pushing off killing 844 people. The vessel listed to port due to a recent required addition of extra life boats and the uneven distribution of 2500 passengers on one side looking out over the river.

The Eastland Disaster, July 23, 1915, Chicago River, Chicago, Illinois

There are many contribution factors including overloading, open ports and the crew attempting to stabilize the ship by adding water to the ballast tanks. The ship had a history of instability as well.

Lesson here is to understand your boats loading and stability, and be very cautious when taking on any extra loads.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:17 PM   #39
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My Clipper (CHB) 34 has an 'official' maritime safety sticker on the helm side window saying max 12 persons and no more than 3 at one time on the flybridge, so that gives you an idea how overloaded that craft was. Very sad, and so needless.
Peter, ours is a similar boat, and we've had six on the flybridge under way on a number of occasions... day trips, raft-ups, etc. on the peaceful calm waters of the Pamlico River. Never had any concerns about stability.. then again, we don't have anything to look at that might cause everyone to rush to one rail at the same time.

Happy hours, tied up.. hmm.. who counts? Maybe a couple more. After all, many of these old TT 34's were designed with built-in seating for six , not counting deck chairs.

Has anyone ever heard of one of these boats capsizing due to overloading?
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:18 AM   #40
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I agree 3 is conservative, as the boats are 8-9 tons, after all. However, I use that as a reason to keep people from all trooping up there, and in any kind of sea it would be a safe limit - in calm conditions or at anchor I'd allow 4-5 at a pinch.
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