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Old 08-23-2011, 06:02 PM   #21
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RE: The boat that does not back up

My Manatee is a single engine with full keel and barn-door rudder. She washes to Starboard initially, but overcomes this with about 1 knot in reverse. Once I've got the boat to 1 knot, the rudder steers the boat nicely down a fairway. I usually find myself backing in when staying at a marina unless the dock is really noisy.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:48 PM   #22
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Only whimps need thrusters or twin engines. Damn I wish I had a thruster or twin engines.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:27 PM   #23
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Quote:
Marin wrote:LarryW wrote:
Now twin engine boat, I don't know. Larry

*
My dog can back our twin engine boat in a straight line.* Assuming counter-rotating props, a twin--- or at least our twin--- will back straight all day long wind and current notwithstanding.* In fact I will often flip our boat around in a marina fairway and back down*between a pair of*long finger docks with little clearance on either side to an open spot partway down rather than go down the slot*bow first. Going backwards the boat steers like a car with differential power (rudders remain centered all the time).

*I wish your dog was on board when I need to back my boat into a 14 foot slip with a 13 foot beam.* I do this each time I take the boat out.
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Old 08-23-2011, 08:37 PM   #24
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RE: The boat that does not back up

My Krogen backs to starboard in reverse. Knowing that, I do the back and fill thing if I have to back in a straight line. Easy to back into my slip, rudder hard to port, turn that way and back in to the slip on my port when approaching. Back and fill, no hurry. It's all in learning the technique, and practice, practice, practice. Thruster helps, but don't count on it!

Matter of fact, when I was a two boat owner, after getting used to the single, it was hard to back the twin back into the slip. Knew how to do it, but lost the technique quickly. It was almost easier to back into the slip by killing one engine!
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:20 PM   #25
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Quote:
HopCar wrote:
Only whimps need thrusters or twin engines. Damn I wish I had a thruster

*

Gott'em both. *Gotta a joysticck too, but it has nothing to do with controlling the boat.** Oops!* Who said that?*
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:30 PM   #26
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RE: The boat that does not back up

When I had a single prop and I was in a narrow slip that required I back in off a narrow fairway, I used the burst and glide process with the wind and current taken into consideration. The Admiral would chant in my ear "if you think you're going slow, go slower."
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:49 PM   #27
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The boat that does not back up

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Egregious wrote:
*I wish your dog was on board when I need to back my boat into a 14 foot slip with a 13 foot beam.* I do this each time I take the boat out.
I'll be happy to hire him out to you.* His rate is $25/hr but of course you'd have to pay his airfare and lodging expenses, too,*since you're on the east coast.* Probably be cheaper to just buy some extra fenders :-)


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 23rd of August 2011 09:50:40 PM
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:50 PM   #28
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Don't forget meals and some bar drinks.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:46 AM   #29
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Many commercial boats will have deeper reduction gears , and larger diameter more efficient props .

The size of the prop is such that the side view of the blade area shows it almost as big as the rudder it self.

Even with a good head of steam in reverse the rudder is small for the job.

Learning to steer with the prop, rather than the rudder is the solution.

A good hand with a spring line is also a big help.

Yacht experience is not a help on these boats.
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:39 AM   #30
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RE: The boat that does not back up

"I wish your dog was on board when I need to back my boat into a 14 foot slip with a 13 foot beam."

When I had my Mainship (for 14 years)*my slip was 4 inches wider than the beam.* As FF* said, the rudder stayed in one dorection and the rest was accomplished with*gear and throttle. I never used a spring line to get into my slip, however on many occasions**it took more than one try. It was a matter of how many slips ahead of mine I made my turn...was it a two slip wind or a three slip wind?

And of course there's the golden rule....if it doesn't feel right go back out and make another approach with the necessary corrections. Don't try ot "force it".
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Old 08-24-2011, 08:54 AM   #31
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Well you can back a single screw, Im still learning, tore off both rod holders, cracked the old swim platform, knocked boards off the dock,tore a piece off rub rail off, good thing its my dock. I will learn to do this,its just going to take more practice (and money) I useally have the Trade winds blowing in at a 45'of my birth and that dosent help. I shall prevail. BB
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:28 AM   #32
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The boat that does not back up

When I had my trawler on the Tennessee River, a dock master assigned me a slip between two floating finger piers.* I squared up and backed straight in.* As the boat was entering the slip while in reverse mostion stopped.* I took it out of gear.* Boing, the boat sprung forward.* So, I tried it again with the same result.* Trying to figure out what ws happening, I asked the dockmaster what was going on.* He said he couldn't figure it out.* I put on my swim suit and jumped in.* There was a steel angle iron about 3 1/2' below the surface.* The boat drew 4'.* I tied a rope from one side to the other.* Walked out on the bar.* Jumped up and down on it until it had about an 8" sag in the middle.* That was now my slip as it was the only one I could get in.* Strange things happen when you are backing a full keel trawler in house boat country.


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 09:34:54 AM
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:45 AM   #33
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Don, that is wild.

Did it do any damage?* What the heck was the angle iron hitting on.

*Rudder? Skeg? Transom?

If you were a bow in guy you may have never known. Might have just bent it down with your keel.

SD
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:57 AM   #34
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The boat that does not back up

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:
Don, that is wild.

Did it do any damage?* What the heck was the angle iron hitting on.

*Rudder? Skeg? Transom?

If you were a bow in guy you may have never known. Might have just bent it down with your keel.

SD
*Dude,

What? Me? Bow in?* The shame of it all.* That just won't happen!

It was hittng the skeg.* No damage.* Just felt strange.* If I had slid over it bow in, I would have been trapped in the slip!


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Wednesday 24th of August 2011 09:59:58 AM
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:59 PM   #35
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:
If you figure out how to get a single screw boat to back up in reverse patent it ASAP b/c you will make a ton of $$$.

It's too late.* The bow thruster has already been invented.*
*
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:40 AM   #36
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Folks wishing to command a boat of this style will need to know that a BUNCH of rpm is required , to get the mass moving as you desire.

In Waterford NY a small tug (50-60ft) was able to obtain a 40deg stern angle with the dock with 2 big shots of power , and one small one between to check the fwd motion. Prop about 60 inch dia,
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:56 AM   #37
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Sorry, but I must be missing something here. Sure I could back into my berth, but why bother...? Bow in is far quicker, simpler and safer, especially when there is a side wind blowing, which there usually is in our marina, and the finger is plenty long enough to allow for stepping onto the swim step and through the transom door. Leaving is even simpler. Slow out in reverse, then using the boat's momentum, a quick burst in forward with helm hard over kicks the stern round, and lines her up with the clearway, then slow ahead on out. Too easy...? Why make a simple exercise difficult..? Is it just to show off or what? To me it smacks of the person who boasts about how hot they can eat their chilli....why would you want to when it just kills off your taste buds...? Same deal for mine....though I can see a point if your boat sticks out beyond the finger and you don't have a side door access.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:39 AM   #38
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The boat that does not back up

Quote:
Peter B wrote:
Sorry, but I must be missing something here. Sure I could back into my berth, but why bother...? Bow in is far quicker, simpler and safer, especially when there is a side wind blowing, which there usually is in our marina, and the finger is plenty long enough to allow for stepping onto the swim step and through the transom door. Leaving is even simpler. Slow out in reverse, then using the boat's momentum, a quick burst in forward with helm hard over kicks the stern round, and lines her up with the clearway, then slow ahead on out. Too easy...? Why make a simple exercise difficult..? Is it just to show off or what? To me it smacks of the person who boasts about how hot they can eat their chilli....why would you want to when it just kills off your taste buds...? Same deal for mine....though I can see a point if your boat sticks out beyond the finger and you don't have a side door access.
*PeterB, Where is your manhood?

Really, few finger piers on the East Coast of the US are long enough to accomodate an over 40' boat with easy exit from the stern.* So, not liking diving off the bow pulpit, I will back in.* Some fixed docks have no finger piers just pilings.* They are even difficult to use when backed in.* Impossible when bow in.* One example is Boca Grand Marina.* Some have such abreviated finger piers that they are almost impossible bow in.* Hampton VA public piers are an example here.* Why make it difficult to access the boat from the dock.* In our case it works better to back in in most cases.* Besides that I have great visibiliy to the rear.* Hindsight is always best.

There are other good reasons for orientating your boat in one direction or another.* In my present slip I prefer to be facing the sun.* Windshied covers shade the boat in the evening, and the cockpit is in the shade.* perfect for happy hour.* Some times it myght be wave action is better on the bow.* There are any number of reasons.


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Thursday 25th of August 2011 08:46:55 AM
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:32 AM   #39
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Quote:
Moonstruck wrote:Peter B wrote:
*Bow in is far quicker, simpler and safer, especially when there is a side wind blowing, which there usually is in our marina,

Moonstruck Wrote:
In my present slip I prefer to be facing the sun.* Windshied covers shade the boat in the evening, and the cockpit is in the shade.
Quote:
I subscribe to both statements. Not to mention that I prefer heading into the wind on docking. Having a blue hull, however, necessitates backing in for a year, every other year, to even out the sun fading on the hull. (It just dawned on me by not flipping the boat, I only have to deal with painting one side of the boat when faded.) :imslow:
*
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:47 AM   #40
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RE: The boat that does not back up

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:Having a blue hull, however, necessitates backing in for a year, every other year, to even out the sun fading on the hull. (It just dawned on me by not flipping the boat, I only have to deal with painting one side of the boat when faded.) :imslow:
*Another good reason to have a white hull.
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