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Old 09-22-2016, 01:14 PM   #21
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That's a great point @stanfromhell
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:12 AM   #22
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I agree, the use of a car modern car engine would be a poor choice for a marine engine, marine engines frequently run at 80-100% for extended periods of time car engines rarely run that hard for but short periods. Car Engines that get used in marine applications are usually de rated so that WOT power is closer to 50-75% of what the the engine produced in a car application.

For clarification the BMW marine Diesel engines of the 1980's were proper marine engines, not using engines from their car line but from various manufacturers producing Diesel engines made for the hi torque requirements of marine use.
( common choices are tractor and off road equipment for the base doner engine).
They defiantly had some design flaws, like undersized heat exchangers,as they were trying to produce engines to meet the new cleaner regulations and ultimately got out of the marine engine business. mercruiser bought up their larger product line because they thought they were good products and continued to sell them for many years in various versions, but not much in the USA.
The BMW gas engines I know nothing about and would want to investigate their origins before comment but I don't consider gas engines the right sort of engines for the Trawler forum or most trawlers.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:40 AM   #23
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Most any engine can be marinized to operate in a boat.

With keel cooling and a dry exhaust stack the cost is very low.

The only hassle is the engine advertised HP has zero to do with boat use.

The simple rule of thumb is to divide the engine displacement in cubic inches by 3 and use that as your operating HP rating.
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:09 PM   #24
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Well sure, you can make any engine to run as a marine engine BUT to get the torque requirements and reliability to run at WOT for extended periods you need to use engines that were designed to do that. All car engines rarely get to run at WOT for very long but tractors and off road equipment are often run very hard for long periods, just like boat engines, hence why they are usually the doner engine of choice for Diesel marine engines . Like Lehmans based on Fordsen tractor engines. ( gas engines are a completely different story). The huge expense in installing or reengineing a boat means it make more sense to use the proper sort of engine and not any engine, they are not all created the same!
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99 View Post
Many Haatz engines are good engines, but for some reason, they won't sell to American Markets... Perhaps that was the cause?

They have a very good 3-phase 50hz small genset but no 60hz / single phase options and absolutely no desire to market into the US.
Libra, the new boat from Europe, is equipped with one of these Hatz 3 phase gennies set up in three phase. I am still trying to figure out what runs on three phase on this boat, (dryer?) but good to hear that this unit has a good reputation.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:03 AM   #26
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If you use the BMW 3.0 litre 6 you can re-chip it to give more torque low down.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:05 AM   #27
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Car engine In trawler

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Originally Posted by Irish Rambler View Post
If you use the BMW 3.0 litre 6 you can re-chip it to give more torque low down.
I take you point and it will probably work for a car, but boat engines need to be designed differently. The base engine needs to be a lot heavier castings with larger bearing to take the continuous loads, so many other differences that you see in off road equipment engines.
The modern can engine is being designed for light weight , small spaces, fast revving for a responsive and quick acceleration. But rarely run at WOT for more that a few seconds. These modern engines are amazing compared to the old engines of the 70'S and 80's ( electronic fuel injection helps greatly here). These are not the requirements of a trawler boat engine.
The modern diesel have come a long long way too, the fuel injection systems are night and day compared to the older systems but the engines still have to be designed for continuous high load use.
One example is oil pressure , if you have low oil pressure in a car you can baby it for ever and keep rolling , the worst that will happen is you have to call AAA If the engine goes , but in a boat if you low oil pressure at a high load it's all over very quickly.
A modern Car engine would be a very poor choice for a heavy boat engine.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by klee wyck View Post

Libra, the new boat from Europe, is equipped with one of these Hatz 3 phase gennies set up in three phase. I am still trying to figure out what runs on three phase on this boat, (dryer?) but good to hear that this unit has a good reputation.
Its a bit off thread, but....Any 3 phase generator can feed single phase loads.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:23 AM   #29
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warren,
Our boat engines don't need much torque. At least non-planing vessels. And most here hardly ever run over 50% load. And many never run at WOT .. ever. Even though they should for very short periods of time.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:48 AM   #30
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In the 50 to 2000 HP range diesels designed for genset duty are well suited for commercial boat use - or better said continuous duty. Take these same engines and add raw water inter coolers, more air induction contrivances, bigger fuel pumps, more cooling capacity, different engine internals etc and you can double the horsepower for planing boat use. Other non genset diesels can and and do work, the cost to marinize though is usually a show stopper.

The most advanced smaller diesels are destined for automotive and light trucks. Millions per year in fact. The puny recreational boat market is hardly worth the time for but a few intrepid diesel engine makers. The efforts to certify and legalize these engines for us few boat guys is daunting and expensive. One engine worth watching for is the new 5 liter Cummins. It seems right sized for fast boat application, sure be nice to see it in a 200 HP marine version.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:01 AM   #31
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Eric,
Prehaps many trawler types don't run at WOT very often but only because they have oversize engines. As you say running WOT even for a short while is a good idea for a marine diesel.
Still, it's good to have the option to feel safe running Close to WOT on occasion. This is what you want your engine to do. Like entering a harbor with a 6 knot tidal rip coming out or getting away from a cheasapeake bay pop up storm.
My thought also go back to the days when I was involved in building the Canyon running fishing machines on the east coast. These guys would run close to WOT for a couple of hours to get to the fishing grounds. Or crash across to the Bahamas in daylight from Florida. You need to run hard to do that!
Prehaps not the type of boat use that the trawler forum caters too but these are the same diesel marine engines we use.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:34 AM   #32
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Warren,
Running at WOT is not "good" for engines. It's done at times to check the engine and it's subsystems. Only several minutes are required. It checks cooling systems, fuel systems, driveline systems and general engine mechanics. All systems affected by load so that when the engine is asked to perform it can do so without failures due to worn or weak components.

I like this statement from you;
"Perhaps not the type of boat use that the trawler forum caters too but these are the same diesel marine engines we use."

Yes,
Good point and all our boat engines should be fully capable of performing as specified by the manufacturers. Running at full load and rated rpm for X amount of time. Significant difference from engine to engine. And especially different types of engines. Some "experts" have consistantly recomended running trawler engines at a 75% load .. continously. Many to most engines (perhaps all) should be able to do that. But I think a 60% load would allow an engine to last longer .. how much longer is a great unknown though. I don't think there would be much difference but I'm no engineer. In my own personal opinion a load of about 40 to 60% is probably ideal.
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