Biofuel vs Biodiesel, sources, similarities, applications

[brian eiland]

I just did a search for this subject and ran across an interesting discussion thread over here,...BUT it had been closed ??, so I needed to start a new one.

...from that other thread
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/biodiesel-fuel-7089.html

Biodiesel use is on a rapid rise in China. There it is made from feedstocks that don't compete with food in terms of land, crops, or water. Their goal is to have all commercial aircraft in China flying on sustainable biofuel by the year 2030 and a good percentage of their trucks and diesel farm equipment run on biodiesel today.

Conversely, after a burst of interest in biofuel in the Puget Sound area the interest seems to have died away. There are people who " cook" their own for their own use but any efforts at large-scale production seem to have faded away. I've never met a boater who used it.

A friend bought a VW made for biodiesel and ran it that way for awhile. But biodiesel at the time was more expensive than other fuels and the places he could get it were few and a long ways away. So after a few months he gave up and switched to regular diesel.

In terms of commercial production the objectives in places like China, the Middle East, Australia, etc. seem to be near term feedstocks being trees like jatropha and soapberry as well as used cooking oil. The long term solution is algae.

I've seen several references to the aircraft industry seeking out a 'biofuel' resource for fueling their planes. Here is one of the latest I've run across.

Desert plants to be put to the test for aviation biofuel production.
A discovery by the Sustainable Bioenergy Research Consortium (SRBC) that desert plants fed by seawater can produce biofuel more efficiently than other well-known feedstocks could help alleviate such concerns......

Desert plants to be put to the test for aviation biofuel production

...making use of desert areas and salt water....WOW

A question arise in my mind Are there enough similarities between this aviation biofuel and biodiesel fuel that it could be utilized in our yachts??

Brian

 

[brian eiland]

Algae based Fuel for Aircraft

I was just recently looking thru the May 2012 issue of Popular Science and found an interesting discussion on some of China's enviromental impact in this new energy world. Apparently Boeing company has been working with China in relation to the aircraft industry to develop bio-fuels that can be used in the engines of their very significantly growing airline industry. I've scanned the article here, and posted a few excerpts:

"When an engine burns fuel from algae, it emits CO2, just as if it were burning fuel pumped straight from the Persian Gulf. BUT, the algae would have removed at least as much CO2 from the atmosphere while it was growing. So in principle, and with allowances for inefficiences and fuel costs in the production process, algae-based fuel could allow airplanes to fly on something much closer to a 'carbon-neutral' basis."

"By process of elimination, these criteria have led mainly to algae (biofuels). In principle it can produce 5 to 10 times as much fuel per acre of surface area as oil palms, soybeans, corn, or other crops that can be used for biofuels. It grows and produces the oil many times as fast as more complex plants,...and the algae crop cycle is a matter of days rather than weeks or months."


...and here is the quote that surprised me !!
"It can be grown on land that is otherwise too barren or unusable, and in water that is too polluted or brackish for any other human or agricultural purpose. The world's entire avaition fuel needs could be taken care of by algae facilities the size of Belgium."​

 

[psneeld]

keep reading...if you are interested why it fell from favor...read financials then periodicals that concern the production of parts for major engine manufactures..

ultimately politics is a big cog but neither the first or last.

 

[FF]

The big hassle with bio fuel is it strips and cleans decades of gunk from the fuel system.

Carry a bunch of spare filters if you get stuck with over 5% bio in the fuel.

The feds have allowed 15% in pump fuel for road diesel , but the years of lower % mixes have cleaned the tanks , so its not the disaster , as the first Ethanol was in gasoline.

 

[ranger58sb]

I've reckoned it'd be nifty if biofuel could be produced from poppies. Perhaps that would address the worldwide heroin problem and at the same time give Afghanis enough income to eat. (Until corruption sets in, I guess...)

-Chris

 

[RickB]

For a moment there I thought you wrote puppies.

 

[jleonard]

The big hassle with bio fuel is it strips and cleans decades of gunk from the fuel system.

Carry a bunch of spare filters if you get stuck with over 5% bio in the fuel.

According to the guys I with trucks that run bio, after the first filter change or 2 everything is cleaned out and filter changes go back to a normal schedule.

Around my area, bio is a rare find, and it costs more than diesel.

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

I have been to this research plant, it is about 10 min. from my house. It is the future, strip CO2 from the air bubble it through the columns in a sunny area and within a short time you have bio-mass to make fuel.


Next Big Bio-Fuel - ALGAE - YouTube

 

[rwidman]

I top off my fuel tanks with "road diesel" when I return from a trip if theey are down just a few gallons. My marina does not sell diesel. The last time I did this, I was at a Sunoco station (the closest diesel vendor) and noticed a sign on the pump indicating that the diesel fuel "may contain up to 5% biodiesel". The key, I suppose is the word "may".

On one of the fuel additive studues on the Internet, 2% biodiesel outperformed most commercial additives. This may or may not be true and I may or may not have put thirty gallons of 5% biodiesel in my boat.

What does this mean to me? I have no idea. I don't know if the fuel I purchased from Sunoco had biodiesel in it and I don't know if the Internet study was valid or bad science.

Other than running the engine before and after changing the oil, I haven't had a chance to notice any difference and probably would't notice anyway.

BTW: It seems to me that a clean fuel system is a happy fuel system so a fuel that also cleans the system is a good thing. The problem is getting from dirty to clean without issues.

 

[brian eiland]

...from another forum

No - whatever is good for planes and automobiles, is good for boats.
Some weeks ago I was watching a TV show called Landline - that highlights innovation in agriculture.

Green Oil - Landline - ABC

A US company is buying up large tracts if desert in Western Australia, to raise Algae on salty water. This is only one of dozens all over the world.
The big catch is - its too expensive to develop fuel from Algae yet - the production costs are too high.
But - they are making money from the Algae - by selling the concentrate into health food products.

And excerpt from the interview
"SEAN MURPHY: Aurora's pilot plant is harvesting about 15 tonnes a month of dried algal material, which is shipped back to California and turned into omega-3 EPA supplements, fish feed and biofuel. For now, the company says the best returns are in the omega-3 health supplements, but the most potential is in biofuel.
The company is in the process of redesigning these ponds to test a more efficient growing system. The focus will be on omega-3 production. For now, biofuel is still just a byproduct.

PAUL BRUNATO: We can sell biofuel while producing omega-3s. We can sell biofuel for market price, no matter what it is, and be profitable based on the omega-3s. Biofuel is just added on. It's the cherry on top of the cake.

SEAN MURPHY: The Pilbara has one of the world's biggest markets for diesel, but biofuel is still more expensive to produce than fossil fuels. "

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

It is my understanding that untreated bio-D does not store long term as well as dino-D, this my just be an "OWT" or other internet myth.

I only burn 1.4 gal at cruise so I treat all my fuel for long term storage.

I do know the it is not at all like reprocessed vegetable based fuel that has a host of other problems not the least of which is low temperature issues and rancidity in short term storage.

There is also a new ETOH from yard waste plant here in Vero adding to the fuel stream from grass and landscape clippings.

Florida company announces mass production of biofuel made of waste ? RT USA

 

[kulas44]

I realize this thread is about biodiesel, and its variants, but just to throw in some info for grins and giggles and probably derision, I buy used motor oil from my local oil change outfit for 50 cents a gallon. I have a small centrifuge/heater in my shop that I use, then it gets filtered befor being put into the storage tank. Originally I used it to heat the shop, then the pool. The big house has a 6 ton marine AC unit that uses the pool water for heating/cooling. Guest house has a 2 ton unit. I have a 30 kw gen with a 2-71 DD that burns it just fine. I decided to try it in my boat (8v92s) and guess what, you cant tell the difference, except in my pocket book. To date I have burned about 3500 gallons with no ill affects. I mostly use it only in summer, it gets kinda thick if to cold. I tried gasoline dilution, which works very well up to about 10 percent but really slows the combustion process to much. Anything above that would probably cause cold start problems. Gasoline does a great job of keeping injectors and combustion chambers clean. I noticed at very low speeds and idling to long that I got a lot of white smoke, even more than normal, when running to much gasoline. Step it up and get combustion temps back up and it goes away. 5% seams to be ok. I plan to add a heater to my day tanks, that should help in cooler weather. Summer time its not a problem. I am not recomending anyone else do this but it works for me, YMMV.

 

[sunchaser]

To date I have burned about 3500 gallons with no ill affects.

This practice has been outlawed by the feds and states for about 35 years now. You and your neighbors are subject to heavy metal poisoning. The same applies for spreading used oil on roads for dust control.

The famous case that got the Feds riled up involved a Missouri recycler, Russell Bliss, who used his excess used motor oil to keep dust down and provide cheap heating oil to his friends. Major jail time ensued.

3500 gallons you say, wow.

 

[brian eiland]

This practice has been outlawed by the feds and states for about 35 years now. You and your neighbors are subject to heavy metal poisoning. The same applies for spreading used oil on roads for dust control.

The famous case that got the Feds riled up involved a Missouri recycler, Russell Bliss, who used his excess used motor oil to keep dust down and provide cheap heating oil to his friends. Major jail time ensued.

3500 gallons you say, wow.

So where is the heavy metal POISONING coming from?
1) Was it in the original product (motor oil) that they sold us?
2) Or did we collect it from the running engines, etc?....wait a minute didn't we filter those metals out so they wouldn't harm out engines?
3) When we 'turn it in' how do they dispose of it....burning perhaps?
4) What do all of the 'refineries' do with that considerable waste they must generate?
5) Is it analogous to the municipal waste water plants where their records of 'accidental spills' far out weights the entire contribution by the boating public
6) And they contemplating to let them pipe that 'tar sands oil' right thru a major aquifer from the farm lands of this country.

back to the subject...sorry for the rant
Brian

 

[RickB]

Here's the EPA version, followed by one of the greener states' rules.


Document Display | NSCEP | US EPA

http://www.oregon.gov/OSMB/Clean/docs/guidebook/12_appendix_c.pdf

 

[kulas44]

Exactly, thats what "those that dont know" say every time. "what about the metal" if you have metal in your engine oil you aint runnin much longer, and your filter is bypassing it. It's not an issue, and we've been heating large buildings with it (legally) for more years than any of us can remember. Exxon is one of the major buyers of used motor oil. We sell it for ship fuel that gets burnt right here in the good ol U.S. I've also been told that it will smoke like crazy, ruin my engines, injectors, injector pump (DDs dont have one, go figure) and just plain wont work and that ANY gasoline will destroy a diesel engine post haste with catostrophic and violent results, by "those that dont know" and have no experience with it. I once had a lengthy discussion on the cb radio on my way to Galveston with a trucker I got behind that was leaving OKC on his way to a refinery south of Houston. When I asked what he was hauling he told me it was solid industrial waste from the production of vermiculite. The company was paying dearly for"hazardous waste disposal" when one of the oil refineries asked if they could burn it. They got the ok and even paid shipping. This guy made 3 runs a week. Apparently it was cheaper to burn the "hazardous" waste to heat crude for seperation than it was to burn crude. Kind of a simbiotic relationship for the 2 companies. One fellows trash is anothers treasure. Just where do you think your used oil goes anyway ? How about asphalt on the roads you use, how about roofing tar on the building where you work, even rerefined and added to "sinthetic" motor oil that you pay a premium for. It certainly does not dissappear.

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Fuel or hazard

There is a test plant in southern Manitoba re cracking used motor oil. Early results suggest higher octane.
It can also be recycled as motor oil even easier.
One of the interesting questions is what tax rate should apply if it is recycled and the tax has already been paid the first time.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I ran a tank (25 gal) of biodiesel in my previous boat and noticed no difference at all.

I once worked in a powerhouse at a mine in Alaska. We rerefined as much of our lube oil as we could. About 80% of it as I recall.

I was told that in at least one way rerefined oil was superior to new oil.

Anybody know what way or ways that is or was?

 

[kulas44]

I just know that I'm into it about $1 per gallon and it is better fuel than the new ultra low sulphur crap you have to buy now. Old DDs were not made to run "dry" fuel. Even your old Lehmans will benifit from a continuos dose of motor oil, new or used. 10 weight gear oil or transmission fluid is even better. The only diesel engine I personally know of that you cant burn used motor oil in is the 95 and later 6.5 chevy with electronic injector pump. It has an optical sensor that sets the timing. Used oil turns the fuel black and the sensor cant "see" the light, therefor it cant make timing adjustments. Cummins and powerstrokes work fine with it. All the class 8 trucks Ive had are ok with it. The newer engines with regen systems and requiring DEF probably wont like it much. We dont have that on boats, yet.

 

[sunchaser]

Exactly, thats what "those that dont know" say every time. "what about the metal"

The fact that you obtain used oil from others and use it for heating and diesel fuel supplements does not mean it is legal or environmentally conscious, it just means you do it.

 

[hypersloth]

FF is correct. Deppends on percentage though. Co. I work for runs Bio as a rule for "feel good points in the west coast thing". When it first hit up here maybe 8 years ago it was at 15%, we had constant problems. Over 5% and we see filter problems and some older trucks make less power. We have a dozen that can't use it at all. Bugs like the Bio so I wouldn't let it sit over the winter.

 

[kulas44]

Define "environmentally conscious". E85 gasoline is the least "green" of any fuel to ever be pushed down the throats of the American public so far, on every level from production to implimentation. it makes no sense. Recycleing in small town USA makes no sense. It takes more energy (burnt fuel) to do it than it saves. If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, good for you, but it still makes no sense, economically or enviromentally. It makes your carbon footprint just that much bigger. At least when I burn used motor oil I know it is completely incinerated, unlike the ships sitting outside of SouthWest pass belching brown crap that you can smell and see for miles. Personally, I think I'm "greener" than most because I have actually thought about this and I dont just give my waste to someone else and think I'm doing all the good, outa sight outa mind is not the best attitude. When I buy used oil I sign a form stating that it will be used for heating, making the sale legal. My 8v92s supply hot water to my water heater in the boat to heat water. Convoluted, yes, legal ,yes.

 

[CPseudonym]

I just did a search for this subject and ran across an interesting discussion thread over here,...BUT it had been closed ??

Brian the thread you found was closed when politics and environmental drifts took over the thread. Environmental discussions and politics belong in OTDE only, always have and always will.

 

[bobsyiruncle]

Someone who has more time than I do can look this up but a long haul trucker (Volvo driver) told me that the newest technology dumps small amounts of the used oil back into the fuel flow so that you add new oil without removing old to increase distance between changes. If this is right it is about halfway between the pros and cons on this thread
And as to what chemistry is better from running used oil- I am going to guess sulfur

 

[kulas44]

Sulphur lubricates valves, kinda like tetra-ethyl- lead back in the day except it doesn't affect your grandchildren. And now most trucks have the regen stuff and some use DEF. As I understand it the regen regenerates the "cadillac" converter by burning off the "junk" that has collected. It does this by burning FUEL excessively and making lots of heat, kinda like a self cleaning oven. I wonder which super genius came up with that idea. But, it may be on boats very soon.

 

[RickB]

Sulphur lubricates valves, kinda like tetra-ethyl- lead back in the day except it doesn't affect your grandchildren. And now most trucks have the regen stuff and some use DEF. As I understand it the regen regenerates the "cadillac" converter by burning off the "junk" that has collected. It does this by burning FUEL excessively and making lots of heat, kinda like a self cleaning oven. I wonder which super genius came up with that idea. But, it may be on boats very soon.

Sulfur is not a lubricant

DEF does not regenerate a diesel particulate filter (DPF).

DPFs are on boats now. I have a patent pending on a system that uses electrical power to create enough heat to initiate regeneration at low loads. There are 13 systems in operation now, the first was installed on a 67m yacht over a year ago.

 

[brian eiland]

Brian the thread you found was closed when politics and environmental drifts took over the thread. Environmental discussions and politics belong in OTDE only, always have and always will.

So I guess I almost closed my owned subject thread with that previous posting ??

So where is the heavy metal POISONING coming from?
...........
5) Is it analogous to the municipal waste water plants where their records of 'accidental spills' far out weights the entire contribution by the boating public
6) And they contemplating to let them pipe that 'tar sands oil' right thru a major aquifer from the farm lands of this country.

Back to the subject...sorry for the rant
Brian

Hey there are some interesting submissions coming here.

 

[Moby Nick]

I tow my Albin-25 with a Diesel fuel by Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO)

The tractor is a 1993 Dodge 250 with a Cummins 5.9L Diesel. I bought the truck 6 years ago and installed a Dual Fuel System which includes a 22gal tank for WVO. When we leave home on a trip to waters far away we have fuel for almost 1000 miles. When We cruise Canadian waters we plan our fuel use so that we can enter and depart Canada on WVO.

It's important to use the proper terms in regard to "biofuels". Newbies sometimes get the terms confused. I hang with others who also run Diesel pickup trucks, VW Diesels, and Mercedes Benze Diesels on WVO. Most have dual fuel systems. A couple of them just add up to 20% WVO to their Petroleum Diesel (often called "Dino fuel") tanks.

Almost any Diesel engine is able to run fine on "Biodiesel Fuel" without any adaptation of conversion. "Biodiesel" is different from straight vegetable oil. "Biodiesel can be made at home in a garage using equipment which resembles a high school chemistry lab. Such equipment takes up only about 10 sq ft of space and essentially is designed to remove the parraffin waxes, leaving a fuel more closely resembling Kerosene in that its viscosity won't thicken to a solid at low temperatures. Commercial Biodiesel fuel is the same as what guys cook at home, just processed in larger quantities. Here in Illinois we have a commercial Biodiesel facility only 15 miles from our home.

My WVO is given to me free by friends operating an Itallian Restaurant. I need to filter their waste to 5 Microns. I do this by letting the restautrant oil sit in a jug for several weeks in order to let water separate. Then I pour the oil off the top into a 15gal barrel and heat to 100-degrees F so it can be easily pumped through a network of 4 household water filters in order to separate fish and potato particles. The finished oil is themn ready for the truck. I usually process 100 gal at a time and the job takes about 3 hours.

Lots of folks don't want to bother with WVO, however, I enjoy "sticking it" to "Big Oil".

The pic shows the VW Rabbit which I drove on WVO for a year prior to getting the truck. I later sold the VW to a friend. I traded a newer, much nicer-driving , gasoline-burning Chevy Silverado for the Dodge. Old Diesel are preferred due to manufacturer's engine warranties.

BTW, the Dodge/Cummins is a WAY better boat puller.

 

[Moby Nick]

Here's the pic intended for the above

Sorry about that.

 

[Moby Nick]

Still not pic!

I'll have to give up on that.