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Old 01-25-2014, 01:53 PM   #21
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FF is correct. Deppends on percentage though. Co. I work for runs Bio as a rule for "feel good points in the west coast thing". When it first hit up here maybe 8 years ago it was at 15%, we had constant problems. Over 5% and we see filter problems and some older trucks make less power. We have a dozen that can't use it at all. Bugs like the Bio so I wouldn't let it sit over the winter.
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Old 01-25-2014, 02:37 PM   #22
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Define "environmentally conscious". E85 gasoline is the least "green" of any fuel to ever be pushed down the throats of the American public so far, on every level from production to implimentation. it makes no sense. Recycleing in small town USA makes no sense. It takes more energy (burnt fuel) to do it than it saves. If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, good for you, but it still makes no sense, economically or enviromentally. It makes your carbon footprint just that much bigger. At least when I burn used motor oil I know it is completely incinerated, unlike the ships sitting outside of SouthWest pass belching brown crap that you can smell and see for miles. Personally, I think I'm "greener" than most because I have actually thought about this and I dont just give my waste to someone else and think I'm doing all the good, outa sight outa mind is not the best attitude. When I buy used oil I sign a form stating that it will be used for heating, making the sale legal. My 8v92s supply hot water to my water heater in the boat to heat water. Convoluted, yes, legal ,yes.
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Old 01-25-2014, 04:36 PM   #23
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I just did a search for this subject and ran across an interesting discussion thread over here,...BUT it had been closed ??
Brian the thread you found was closed when politics and environmental drifts took over the thread. Environmental discussions and politics belong in OTDE only, always have and always will.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:18 PM   #24
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Someone who has more time than I do can look this up but a long haul trucker (Volvo driver) told me that the newest technology dumps small amounts of the used oil back into the fuel flow so that you add new oil without removing old to increase distance between changes. If this is right it is about halfway between the pros and cons on this thread
And as to what chemistry is better from running used oil- I am going to guess sulfur
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:32 PM   #25
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Sulphur lubricates valves, kinda like tetra-ethyl- lead back in the day except it doesn't affect your grandchildren. And now most trucks have the regen stuff and some use DEF. As I understand it the regen regenerates the "cadillac" converter by burning off the "junk" that has collected. It does this by burning FUEL excessively and making lots of heat, kinda like a self cleaning oven. I wonder which super genius came up with that idea. But, it may be on boats very soon.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:15 PM   #26
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Sulphur lubricates valves, kinda like tetra-ethyl- lead back in the day except it doesn't affect your grandchildren. And now most trucks have the regen stuff and some use DEF. As I understand it the regen regenerates the "cadillac" converter by burning off the "junk" that has collected. It does this by burning FUEL excessively and making lots of heat, kinda like a self cleaning oven. I wonder which super genius came up with that idea. But, it may be on boats very soon.
Sulfur is not a lubricant

DEF does not regenerate a diesel particulate filter (DPF).

DPFs are on boats now. I have a patent pending on a system that uses electrical power to create enough heat to initiate regeneration at low loads. There are 13 systems in operation now, the first was installed on a 67m yacht over a year ago.
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:45 AM   #27
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Brian the thread you found was closed when politics and environmental drifts took over the thread. Environmental discussions and politics belong in OTDE only, always have and always will.
So I guess I almost closed my owned subject thread with that previous posting ??

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So where is the heavy metal POISONING coming from?
...........
5) Is it analogous to the municipal waste water plants where their records of 'accidental spills' far out weights the entire contribution by the boating public
6) And they contemplating to let them pipe that 'tar sands oil' right thru a major aquifer from the farm lands of this country.

Back to the subject...sorry for the rant
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Hey there are some interesting submissions coming here.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:31 AM   #28
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I tow my Albin-25 with a Diesel fuel by Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO)

The tractor is a 1993 Dodge 250 with a Cummins 5.9L Diesel. I bought the truck 6 years ago and installed a Dual Fuel System which includes a 22gal tank for WVO. When we leave home on a trip to waters far away we have fuel for almost 1000 miles. When We cruise Canadian waters we plan our fuel use so that we can enter and depart Canada on WVO.

It's important to use the proper terms in regard to "biofuels". Newbies sometimes get the terms confused. I hang with others who also run Diesel pickup trucks, VW Diesels, and Mercedes Benze Diesels on WVO. Most have dual fuel systems. A couple of them just add up to 20% WVO to their Petroleum Diesel (often called "Dino fuel") tanks.

Almost any Diesel engine is able to run fine on "Biodiesel Fuel" without any adaptation of conversion. "Biodiesel" is different from straight vegetable oil. "Biodiesel can be made at home in a garage using equipment which resembles a high school chemistry lab. Such equipment takes up only about 10 sq ft of space and essentially is designed to remove the parraffin waxes, leaving a fuel more closely resembling Kerosene in that its viscosity won't thicken to a solid at low temperatures. Commercial Biodiesel fuel is the same as what guys cook at home, just processed in larger quantities. Here in Illinois we have a commercial Biodiesel facility only 15 miles from our home.

My WVO is given to me free by friends operating an Itallian Restaurant. I need to filter their waste to 5 Microns. I do this by letting the restautrant oil sit in a jug for several weeks in order to let water separate. Then I pour the oil off the top into a 15gal barrel and heat to 100-degrees F so it can be easily pumped through a network of 4 household water filters in order to separate fish and potato particles. The finished oil is themn ready for the truck. I usually process 100 gal at a time and the job takes about 3 hours.

Lots of folks don't want to bother with WVO, however, I enjoy "sticking it" to "Big Oil".

The pic shows the VW Rabbit which I drove on WVO for a year prior to getting the truck. I later sold the VW to a friend. I traded a newer, much nicer-driving , gasoline-burning Chevy Silverado for the Dodge. Old Diesel are preferred due to manufacturer's engine warranties.

BTW, the Dodge/Cummins is a WAY better boat puller.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:33 AM   #29
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Here's the pic intended for the above

Sorry about that.
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:34 AM   #30
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Still not pic!

I'll have to give up on that.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:48 AM   #31
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Quote:
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T
Lots of folks don't want to bother with WVO, however, I enjoy "sticking it" to "Big Oil".
One look at who makes vegetable oil provides another government or business group to lie awake at night agonizing over.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:08 AM   #32
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Perhaps, but - - -

using a "waste" product, I'm fully one step separated from that. I make it easy for my restaurant friends; all they have to do is inform environmental authorities where their "waste product" goes. Were they to sell it to the local Biodiesel processor or other general processor serving other industries, they'd have to adapt to how those processors want to handle their oil.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #33
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Moby Nick
I understand some users of WVO are using lime in the reprocessing. What is that about? Are they trying to knock down ther acidic nature of the used product or trying to slake out something.
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:46 AM   #34
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I add some wvo to my umo when I can get it. It just makes it smell better and it seams to burn cleaner, but that may just be from the smell, kinda like french fries. I have a 750 gallon vacuum tank with a 2 inch suction hose on a trailer that I use to pick up"fuel". I have a small centrifuge that I use to clean anything I get. It easily cleans 300 gallons in a day. After that I slow the flow down to about 100 gpd to get it really clean. It then gets heated and filtered thru a 10 micron Davco dual filter unit. I heat it in a 900 gallon settling tank (useing waste oil in cold/cool weather and the sun in summer). The tank is 12 feet tall and painted black. I have another tank just like it that I use for storage. We have a retail propane co. so tanks are not a problem. These are outdated truck transport tanks, basically junk. The have water drains on the bottom. I have found that emulsified water is the biggest problem with wvo. my centrifuge doesn't do a good enough job of removing it. Heat, gravity and time works really good. Clean and dry fuel is the key to long engine life, no matter what fuel you burn.
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:02 AM   #35
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>It seems to me that a clean fuel system is a happy fuel system so a fuel that also cleans the system is a good thing. The problem is getting from dirty to clean without issues.<

Thats true BUT when 10 -40 years of gunk is loosened at once it can cause fuel line and filter plugups.

ON a new boat with a clean fuel system and all hoses , seals and O rings , injectors and pump internals rated for Bio diesel, all should be fine.
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:35 AM   #36
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Not using WVO in our Albin-25

The Volvo-Penta MD17C would probably run fine on WVO since it's an old low-tech engine. However, at 3/4-gal/hr the Du NORD's fuel usage is so low that it's just not worth the bother of installing a dual fuel system in her. Besides, I'd have to embark on a cruise with all of the WVO required as refueling at some point along the cruise would not be a realistic expectation.

WVO is just for our Dodge and the thousands of miles between us and "Big Water".
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:32 AM   #37
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Interesting posting on Yachtforums by a German fellow who owns a shipping company, and appears pretty knowledgeable about ship and aircraft subjects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTM09
This discussion is running in circles and reappears over and over again.

We had started a pilot project on Bio diesel by converting a Mercedes UNIMOG truck in our logistic sector for the use of different types and blends of bio diesel. We did that in cooperation with and permission of Mercedes because it was a brand new truck. After 8 month, the injection pump died. Guess what happened.

Mercedes did not pay for the repair because the producer of that injection pump, Bosch, never cleared that pump for the use with bio diesel. After 6 more month, the engine needed new piston rings, valve seals and cylinder liners, meaning a complete overhaul.

The next tests were about long term storage of bio diesel (when being used for the emergency generator on ships for example). That stuff went bad after about six month, became totally unusable and caused some expensive tank and line cleaning.

We are done with that type of fuel for propulsion and heating. Vegetable oil or alcohol distillate type of fluids belong in the kitchen for cooking or in a bottle as rum or whiskey but not in an engine unless in an emergency situation.

A lot of public services in Germany like fire departments, road services and public transport services converted their diesel trucks, busses and special vehicles for the use of bio diesel, both as blended fuels and up to pure vegetable oil. This was not because of the reduction of costs, it was more for political correctness, for a more green image. Most of those services have come back to normal road diesel after some expensive and painfull repairs.

For sure, we have to look for alternative fuels, both due to shortage of mineral oil and due to ever rising costs. But converting human and animal food into fuel for propelling cars, ships and planes can not the way to go.
The only real alternative and green type of bio fuel are IMO the algea type bio reactor fuels that are produced with the help of sun energy. But I have no idea how much of that fuel can be produced in a mass production scenario. Up to now it seems those reactors only exist in a type of laboratory scale and environment.

Again, my personal favorite way of producing fuel for diesel engines would be converting natural gas into diesel fuel (called GTL diesel). This is the cleanest diesel fuel possible, has no disadvantages, can be produced in greatest quantities, does not require modifications on the engines or fuel lines / tanks and NG will be available for hundreds of years to come.
That will give us the time to invent the Flux Compensator or find the Delitium cristals .
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:53 AM   #38
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So where is the heavy metal POISONING coming from?

AS the engine wears the metals the engine is constructed from , as well as combustion by products end up in the oil.

A smart operator will change oil after many hours of operating so the oils detergents can lift and carry out as much as can be carried in the oil.

Burning this , in a waste oil burner or in an engine is,

MUCH UNGOOD!
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:29 AM   #39
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And you know this how ? something you read on the internet ? I get zero "heavy metals" in my centrifuge bowl, even after 500 gallons have spun thru it. Define "heavy metals", so I will know what to look for. To me "heavy metal" would be lead, gold, mercury, etc. None of which are in your engine, so how does it get in the oil. What I get is a normal thick sludge, it looks the same as what you would see in the cylinder heads of a small block chevy after 300,000 miles or so. Imagine that. At least 90 percent of the umo that I burn comes from gasoline engines. Modern gas engines are much more efficient than in the past and as such they barely "use" the lubricating oil. It is basically very clean with very little contaminents. And, its been filtered relentlessly. What I remove is any water and anything heavier than oil. I think that would include metal,,, heavy or light,,, as it would be heavier than oil. So no, I am not burning or spewing metal, even if it had been in the oil when I got it, which it was not.
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:36 AM   #40
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Greetings,
Mr. k. Please see attached link. I'm assuming since the elements tested for in Table 1 denote whether or not an oil is "safe" to burn suggests these contaminants might be present in used oil. IF these contaminants are present on a molecular level there's a good possibility they would not be removed by a centrifuge nor be visible even if removed. We're talking ppm's here so not a heck of a lot but toxic all the same.
http://www.pca.state.mn.us/index.php....html?gid=9070
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