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Old 10-12-2018, 02:34 PM   #1
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Bilge Pump Type/Configuration

Prepping a relatively new-to-me Pilgrim 40 for an extended transit from Lake MI through the GLAKES next year to New England waters. Boat currently has an electric bilge pump with float switch alarm and a manual Gusher and separate hoses stowed in an aft hatch. Considering whether it might be prudent to add a more robust permanently installed-and-plumbed manual pump as a backup.


Thoughts?
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:09 PM   #2
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Have you considered installing a second, and independent, electrical bilge pump? This would free you up to stop the water ingress rather than hand-pumping forever.

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Old 10-12-2018, 03:53 PM   #3
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Have you considered installing a second, and independent, electrical bilge pump? This would free you up to stop the water ingress rather than hand-pumping forever.

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X2
Add a 3700 gph bilge pump. Thatís a 5 gallon bucket every minute. It can be pumping away while you try to stop the inflow.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:16 PM   #4
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Welcome! Tell us more about you, your boat, and your plans when you can. And post pictures! That post is better done in Welcome Mat.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:08 PM   #5
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Don't be like Robert Redford (in All is Lost) where he is whittling down a broom handle for a gusher pump handle while water is coming aboard. Grab anything to stick in the hole to slow the ingress of water. That move should be called what not to do to save yourself.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:34 PM   #6
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Good suggestions re a bigger independent electric pump - thanks to all. Still thinking in terms of the 27' sloop I'm 'graduating' from, with an electric BP with an installed manual pump.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:53 PM   #7
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X2
Add a 3700 gph bilge pump. Thatís a 5 gallon bucket every minute. It can be pumping away while you try to stop the inflow.
Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds.

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Old 10-12-2018, 07:04 PM   #8
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My recommendation is 2 automatic smaller pumps and 1 large pump. Consider a failure of your automatic pump. How will you know? First pump should be lower and always the first pump on. Second pump should only come on after a failure of the first pump or excessive flooding. The second pump should have an alarm or beeper telling you there is a problem, check your bilge. 3rd pump should be large and the last resort. Whether automatic or manual is up to you.

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Old 10-12-2018, 07:06 PM   #9
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Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds.

Ted
Yes I didn’t use paper and work it out. Assuming only 3000 gallon per hour actually pumped, that is 10 five gallon buckets per minute not one.
The best hand pump with a team of humans won’t match that.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:49 PM   #10
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Beware of "flipper" type switches which for me(and some others) have a history of failure,"no external moving parts" type are way better imo. Eg,the Johnson Ultima switch.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:39 PM   #11
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Iím not a big fan of manual pumps. The problem is that they take a crew member away that could be better used slowing the incoming water. They are also no help if youíre not on the boat.

Install at least two more electric pumps. Tedís suggestion sounds good.

If you have extra crew, they can play with the manual pump you already have.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:05 PM   #12
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Yes - more is better.

I expect the primary (lowest) bilge pump and/or switch to fail. It is often sitting in dirty water at the bottom of the bilge with stray dropped bolts, pistachio shells, cable tie cuttoffs and dog hair.
Have another big auto pump high & dry & clean with an alarm. This one will save your butt when the first one fails.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:09 AM   #13
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Having an alarm warns you long before you notice a light on a switch panel. The sooner you start on flooding the better your chances at controlling it in time.
I have a large, old wood boat and carry several emergency pumps, plumbed in and ready to go. I've never had to use them, it's a good hull, but one never knows...
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:23 AM   #14
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"Your math is off a little bit. 3,700 GPH is about 61 GPM. A 5 gallon bucked every 5 seconds."

The pump folks usually figure their output with NO lift.

Add 10ft of lift, 15 ft of hoses , and a couple of elbows and the results may be half the claimed number.


A pail and a watch is always an interesting proof.


If you have a good sized inverter you might consider a basement sump pump , big amps of DC to make 10-12A of 120V , but they really pump, 5 or 10 times as much.

Should you have "bestitis" an engine driven 2 inch pump is over 100 G per min, and could be used as a fire pump with little extra cost.
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Old 10-13-2018, 01:37 PM   #15
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Rule says their 3700 will pump 2900 gph with 1 meter head.
2450 gph with 2 meter head.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:48 PM   #16
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Put a bronze T in the raw water hose just after the thru hull but before the raw water pump. Add a ball valve and hose barb. Run a hose into the bilge. Close the sea cock and open the ball valve with engine running and you can pump a lot of water in a pinch.
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:51 PM   #17
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Has anyone ever computed how fast an engine water pump could empty a five gallon bucket of water? The ones I've messed with were fairly low volume, when compared to a real trash / dewatering pump. I guess the good thing is that it will help, perhaps better than a failing DC powered pump, as long as it doesn't run dry accidentally.

If you have a decent boat, I think it is cheap insurance to buy a decent dewatering pump. I'm a big fan of fastflow driveshaft pumps, but also like their hydraulic pumps as well. No affiliation, just a fan.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:09 PM   #18
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“Has anyone ever computed how fast an engine water pump could empty a five gallon bucket of water?”

To winterize my engine I stick said hose into a 5 gallon bucket. I never timed it but my Yanmar made quick work of it. This year it will be a Lehman. I’ll try to think to time it.
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Old 10-13-2018, 08:17 PM   #19
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If I remember when I winterize my SP225s it takes about a minute to pump a 5 gallon bucket into the engine. I am going to be hauling and winterizing the engines Friday, if I can remember, I will time it.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:15 PM   #20
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Great call on the Y valve after the raw water intake. Thatís my 4th method of dewatering the boat. (2 electric and one manual gusher). That being said, I have an inch and half belt driven bronze Johnson pump I have been planning to install. My Lehman has an extra spot for a belt.

I did want to post about something I learned this year about switches. I might be wrong, you may have had the best luck with them, but the Johnson ultima switch is a certain liability.

I converted over from rule switches because I had to replace them every 3 years or so. Not a big deal (when the primary would fail, the secondary pump, higher up, would work, ( I could see the residual water level was higher than normal and know a switch went)

I converted over to ultima switches this year and had one fail right after the other. I replaced both primary and secondary 2xs each before putting rules back in. (I still have a fresh one in the package that I could not stomach putting in, so if you want it, you can has the POS)

I took the last one apart and it has water intrusion. (Can you believe that!). Godamn bilge switch has water intrusion. I heard this might be a problem and it was. Just a damn shame since I really wanted to get away from the flipper type switches.

Just my 2cents.

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