Big waves

[Capecodder]

Ahh, Buzzards Bay, spent most of my years on the bay. 2pm afternoon sea breeze with an out going tide hold on. We broke a few boats as kids. But unless it's blowing a gale if you move out of the deep Cape Cod Canal to Mashnee flats the sea will decrease by more than half.

 

[GoneFarrell]

The worst place for this wind/current interaction is the Columbia River bar. It is so notorious that it is used to train the USCG surf boat drivers.

I have watched those guys crash through the waves and roll their boats from the lighthouse on the Washington side. Weather there was so bad it hurt to go outside.

The Columbia River bar and the waters north remain the worst/scariest conditions I have ever experienced. Davy Jones lives there for sure!

 

[psneeld]

Bad weather and waves have sunk boats in every corner of the globe....while some areas are notorious....any stretch of water can do you in if you aren't paying close enough attention.

 

[Nomad Willy]

78 PT,
I worked at Washington Iron Works on 6th ave So in Seattle in 1959. I was the 19 and the "blueprint operator" and looked at many old drawings of those big old engines. Of course they quit making them long before 1959.

 

[dannc]

Now that`s timely. John "Stanley" Steamer, a survivor from the sailing yacht "Winston Churchill" lost in the storm of 1998, has been made a life member of Sydney Flying Squadron.
A venerable waterside Club at Careening Cove, in Kirribilli(so called because sailing ships were careened there in the absence of better facilities)SFS is devoted to maintaining and racing the original timber form of the famous Sydney 18 ft racing sailboat we call an "18 footer".
A work colleague, John Gibson, another Winston Churchill survivor, was much changed by the events but continued to practise.3 fellow crew from the yacht drowned in the atrocious conditions.

Thank you for that information. When Sunchaser mentioned the Hobart race, I thought of the Churchill. I always wondered what happened to the survivors.

Later,
Dan

 

[BruceK]

Dan, you may be interested, though sad, to know helicopter pilot Gary Ticehurst, who relayed Winston Churchill`s Mayday while hovering low in terrible conditions over another stricken yacht, and continued providing help for those in trouble, died in a helicopter crash over land some years later, in entirely innocuous circumstances.
My ex next door neighbour, navigator on (I think) Brindabella, provided first aid including his own body heat, to resuscitate a crew member with hypothermia from a boat they were standing by.
The race affected many lives. There was even litigation, which was proved entirely baseless, over an alleged failure to assist. Thank you for your interest in it.

 

[78puget-trawler]

78 PT,
I worked at Washington Iron Works on 6th ave So in Seattle in 1959. I was the 19 and the "blueprint operator" and looked at many old drawings of those big old engines. Of course they quit making them long before 1959.

Hi Eric, yeah my dad had several tugs with either Washington or Atlas hvy duty engines ranging from about 90 to 200HP. I remember hanging around in the eng room on this particular tug ( my favorite ) and just watching those push rods go up and down in that cadence as they did, hearing the chuffing of the exhaust. Music to my ears. One big tug dad had, had two 110HP Washington's down below chuffing along. Big boat too, 80', called the METEOR. Dad charter her out to a guy who took it up north where it caught fire and was beached near Sand Point, AK.

 

[Peter B]

This kind of issue happened to me as well mostly in places I'm familiar with. Habit is the nursery of errors.

On the other hand, good test for your new boat, all is well that ends well !

Hi Pilou. How true that is.

 

[Yahoo 1]

Hi Pilou. How true that is.

Merci Pierre. We learn from failure, not from success.

 

[Wxx3]

OK. Since I have Internet on the computer this week, I may as well post some videos of my English Channel adventures last year, June 2015.

I would not do this again. I should have stayed in port, but again, I was trying to be convenient for friends/crew.
Also, the problem on the lat day, June 8th and 9th, was that once I passed Calais, there are shallow banks offshore which force you into lanes, therefore I could not make direct course to Ostende, when I finally decided to end my agony.

We decided to head to Ostende on June 8th, at 20:00 It was 15nm. We finally got to the harbor 5 hours later, afer encountering building seas and winds.
Winds were NE25g39, seas built to probably 12-24 feet.

The Picture shows the Maretron information, with max winds 39 knots, 6 hours of pitching 5 to 8 degrees and rolling minus 16 to plus 25 degrees.

 

[Wxx3]

I will try to upload videos again.
Sorry for the poor quality, but I was trying to hold on and not lose phone.

Also, while I was very miserable during the last 6 hours in particular, the Krogen was fine.

 

[dhays]

I will try to upload videos again.
Sorry for the poor quality, but I was trying to hold on and not lose phone.

Also, while I was very miserable during the last 6 hours in particular, the Krogen was fine.

Doesn't sound like fun.

 

[mplafleur]

This year my wife and I bought our first boat, a '68 Chris Craft Commander 27. It came with no trailer and we don't have a truck anyway. Paying a hauler to take it from its' bearth in Toledo, OH to its' future home at Casebville on Lake Huron was cost prohibitive so we decided to take it up ourselves on the water and treat it as an adventure/learning cruise. I'll bypass running out of fuel on the Detroit River, being ignored by both the Detroit Police boat and the coast guard, Towboat US's tow line breaking twice, we finally made it to Port Huron at 2am the day of travel.

The winds were up the next morning but we had an experienced sailboater with us who's help and teachings we can never say enough about. Exiting Port Huron we hit 4-6 footers all the way to our first fuel stop, Lexington. I tried to quarter them as much as possible, but needed to keep 1-2 miles from the rocky shore. My wife was not happy with that 2 hour trip and we weighed our options. She stayed ashore and we waited for our son to come over and pick her up in the car and take her to our cottage. Johnny and I decided to head back out in the Commander and continue on. We all had to be at work on Monday and the weather did not look good in the week out. Hiring someone to complete the trip was out of the question as well as leaving her in the slip for a few weeks at $43/day.

The trip to Port Sanilac in late afternoon was worse at 6-8 footers with the prop coming out of the water and spinning up every few minutes. The hull would then come down with a slam, and every so often we'd have to go below and check the windows to make sure they were still shut. We made it to Port Sanilac just fine and saw bewilderment from those ashore that someone was out in that.

The next day was calmer and we finished the trip in 21 tach hours total. This was my baptism in boating, having absolutely ZERO hours behind the helm before then. It was costly and there was a little damage from pounding up against the Detroit River seawall and my newbie rocking skills. I would do it again if given the choice, except I would have checked that fuel level more often!

 

[Cigatoo]

This year my wife and I bought our first boat, a '68 Chris Craft Commander 27. It came with no trailer and we don't have a truck anyway. Paying a hauler to take it from its' bearth in Toledo, OH to its' future home at Casebville on Lake Huron was cost prohibitive so we decided to take it up ourselves on the water and treat it as an adventure/learning cruise. I'll bypass running out of fuel on the Detroit River, being ignored by both the Detroit Police boat and the coast guard, Towboat US's tow line breaking twice, we finally made it to Port Huron at 2am the day of travel.

The winds were up the next morning but we had an experienced sailboater with us who's help and teachings we can never say enough about. Exiting Port Huron we hit 4-6 footers all the way to our first fuel stop, Lexington. I tried to quarter them as much as possible, but needed to keep 1-2 miles from the rocky shore. My wife was not happy with that 2 hour trip and we weighed our options. She stayed ashore and we waited for our son to come over and pick her up in the car and take her to our cottage. Johnny and I decided to head back out in the Commander and continue on. We all had to be at work on Monday and the weather did not look good in the week out. Hiring someone to complete the trip was out of the question as well as leaving her in the slip for a few weeks at $43/day.

The trip to Port Sanilac in late afternoon was worse at 6-8 footers with the prop coming out of the water and spinning up every few minutes. The hull would then come down with a slam, and every so often we'd have to go below and check the windows to make sure they were still shut. We made it to Port Sanilac just fine and saw bewilderment from those ashore that someone was out in that.

The next day was calmer and we finished the trip in 21 tach hours total. This was my baptism in boating, having absolutely ZERO hours behind the helm before then. It was costly and there was a little damage from pounding up against the Detroit River seawall and my newbie rocking skills. I would do it again if given the choice, except I would have checked that fuel level more often!

You are a danger to your wife / family and friends. Why would you put them in situations that you have described when you have no idea what you are doing? And you would do it again?? You are also dangering the people that are tasked with saving your a$$ when the bad situation becomes worse. Common sense is an absolute necessity for boating and ..........well you take it from here.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. mp. I'm afraid I have to agree with Mr. E. Although he is very blunt, the situation you describe, with enthusiasm, could have been fatal. $43/day? For 2 weeks? I can hear your dear wife, OBVIOUSLY a very intelligent woman as she opted NOT to go out, describing her late husband. "Oh, yes, it was very sad BUT he saved $602."
IF IN DOUBT-DON'T GO OUT!!!!

That being said, welcome aboard.

 

[N4061]

A look back

Yesterday, Mary and I took a drive to Dana Point, CA (55 miles from home) to pick up a few pieces of carpet for the new boat from our interior designer. Afterwards we decided to have lunch at Dana Point harbor (home of PAE Nordhavn and a place we have visited more than once). As we were walking along the docks I spotted what looked like a center console Mako like the one we owned back in the 1990s. Mako's, especially center consoles are rare on the west coast and I always get excited when i see one. After lunch I told Mary we needed to take a closer look at the boat since it had a brown windshield frame like ours which was rare since most boats came with black frames. The closer we got to the boat the more I started to realize that it was our boat with the teak trim package and original 175hp Yamaha OB. Wow, the boat actually looked in very good condition except for the faded teak wood. Whomever owns her today is taking care of her.

We purchased the boat up in Oxnard, CA from a dealer who could not move this brand of boat and had four center consoles (different sizes) in stock and under cover that were a few years old. We purchased it for his cost and trailer her a couple of hundred miles home. To this day she was our favorite boat for her simplicity, functionality and great looks. She was 22' with a nice bow rise and a big 22 footer.

We sold her around 1998 and only seen her once (under cover) at Dana Point Marina storage lot. Amazing to see her sitting in the water 18 years later. It was like seeing an old friend.

John

 

[Cigatoo]

Greetings,
Mr. mp. I'm afraid I have to agree with Mr. E. Although he is very blunt, the situation you describe, with enthusiasm, could have been fatal. $43/day? For 2 weeks? I can hear your dear wife, OBVIOUSLY a very intelligent woman as she opted NOT to go out, describing her late husband. "Oh, yes, it was very sad BUT he saved $602."
IF IN DOUBT-DON'T GO OUT!!!!

That being said, welcome aboard.

My apologies for being blunt. I certainly meant nothing more than to get your attention. Spend some time on the water with competent boaters. Take a course, learn the basics, use the common sense that was bestowed upon you, and don't scare the daylights out of your poor wife.

 

[BandB]

Greetings,
Mr. mp. I'm afraid I have to agree with Mr. E. Although he is very blunt, the situation you describe, with enthusiasm, could have been fatal. $43/day? For 2 weeks? I can hear your dear wife, OBVIOUSLY a very intelligent woman as she opted NOT to go out, describing her late husband. "Oh, yes, it was very sad BUT he saved $602."
IF IN DOUBT-DON'T GO OUT!!!!

That being said, welcome aboard.

Wifey B: I'm echoing what the others said. Insanity. Sell the boat now. Please. The life you save may be your own. If you can't afford $43 a day or just to sit or whatever all your excuses then you sure can't afford maintenance on the boat. Every aspect of this story is totally ridiculous. I sure as heck hope it's not real and you're just having fun harassing some serious boaters on a forum. My advice to your wife, get a lot of life insurance on you before your next trip and stay on land herself.

 

[dhays]

The next day was calmer and we finished the trip in 21 tach hours total. This was my baptism in boating, having absolutely ZERO hours behind the helm before then. It was costly and there was a little damage from pounding up against the Detroit River seawall and my newbie rocking skills. I would do it again if given the choice, except I would have checked that fuel level more often!

I started this thread with an example of how I made some poor decisions on my route choice and paid the price of a very unpleasant ride and an uncomfortable wife. I have over 50 years of boating experience in these waters and still made poor choices. So, I would view your trip as a learning experience and remind you that you were lucky. The trip could easily have turned out very badly. The good news is that you have an opportunity to learn from the experience. The biggest lesson to learn is when NOT to go out. A corollary to that is that schedules can be very dangerous things.

Enjoy the boat and learn about the weather and sea conditions in your local area. You will be able to make more informed decisions over time.

 

[AusCan]

Jeez - a tough crowd here. I did think Mplafleur was push his luck in those seas, but he did have experienced assistance. When the prop is often coming out of the water, the boat is not designed to be there but... "sell the boat now" ??? is an over-reaction.
I agree that taking the wife on the initial cruise with a 50 year old boat is never a good idea. There will be breakdowns and tests on the relationship. Wait until you've worked the bugs out of it, and have built up a skill base.
Learn from it, and continue on, Mplafleur.

 

[BandB]

Jeez - a tough crowd here. I did think Easting was push his luck in those seas, but he did have experienced assistance. When the prop is often coming out of the water, the boat is not designed to be there but... "sell the boat now" ??? is an over-reaction.
I agree that taking the wife on the initial cruise with a 50 year old boat is never a good idea. There will be breakdowns and tests on the relationship. Wait until you've worked the bugs out of it, and have built up a skill base.
Learn from it, and continue on, Easting.

Wifey B: Meant to be tough and over the top. Somehow must get his attention and wake him up. He didn't make a bad decision once. He did it. He repeated it. The attitude he had toward that trip of putting the calendar over safety is dangerous. What makes one think next time he's out and it get's rough before he heads home, he'll not make a string of excuses and do it. All the training in the world won't make up for bad judgment and failure to use common sense. If he returns and says where he knows he screwed up and why it won't happen again then fine, but never does he say his choices were wrong, he justifies them. If he can't see how wrong they were, he's in trouble. What if the waves had been 10' or what if he ran out of gas while trying to enter an inlet with rocks on both sides. After it all, he says except for checking the gas, he'd do it all again, the same way.

Oh and it's not Easting. It's mplafleur.

We need to be harsh with someone putting lives at risk because of whatever today's excuse is. I know getting someone to trailer it home couldn't have been all that much. Letting it sit a week, $301. But what about just not starting. Everything, in his mind no options and right.

I tried to find reason to be less harsh, but this part just keeps ringing loud and clear.

It was costly and there was a little damage from pounding up against the Detroit River seawall and my newbie rocking skills. I would do it again if given the choice, except I would have checked that fuel level more often!​

I just hope he hears us and understands. Also, just ruined his wife's introduction to boating. I'm normally the sweet B, but I can't be this time.

 

[mplafleur]

Thanks all for the warm welcome. Actually, I lean on the safe side of most everything,

My wife decided to get dropped off because she was getting a bit nauseous and just wanted us to concentrate on navigation, winds, weather, charts, etc. and not her. The boat handled well and was designed to handle these conditions and more. If I had not known the design and capabilities of the craft, we would have stayed in Port Huron. If it had just been me and my wife, we wouldn't have gone at all.

We had an experienced hand aboard who actively sails 4-5 days a week and often in much worse conditions than what we experienced. This is with a crew of likewise experienced racers. Think Port Huron/Chicago to Mackinaw race.

We spent countless hours getting ready for the trip, not just gear but in learning the systems, and certified safety courses. We had new paper charts, several electronic navigation devices, weather, winds, depth, etc. We always knew what was around us and what was coming and lastly, an experienced seaman.

My comment of doing it again may be misinterpreted. I don't mean that I would knowingly go out in waters like that again, only that I don't regret doing so. If God forbid I get caught out in higher seas again, I will know the boat can handle it. I could not have learned what I did those 3 days any other way.

The thirsty engine consuming $1000 in fuel is another matter and that I do blame on myself. No fuel gauge and only a stick to measure with. The PO had no idea what kind of economy she got and I pulled up confusing information on the web. I should have checked at the halfway mark to my first planned stop but was distracted by a disconnected rudder control rod. I have plans to remedy that and have already installed a fuel flow sensor into the chart plotter to help.

If I hadn't had that trip, I don't think I would have left the dock half as much as I did this summer. I would be afraid of docking, looking like a fool, going out in anything wavey, running aground, you name it. I realize that having a boat is a bigger responsibility than a car. I have a pilots licence, you are responsible for the lives of everyone on board. It is nothing to take lightly. When you fly, you need to know the limits of your craft. Someday you may need to go to that part of of the envelope.

Flame suit on

 

[dhays]

No flames. Congratulations on the boat.

One thing that I have found is that sailing in rough weather is a lot more confortable than doing the same in a power craft. (other than the wind and rain of course)

 

[markpierce]

I've had my share of open-cockpit boating. Now enjoying an enclosed pilothouse, thank you.

 

[dannc]

Dan, you may be interested, though sad, to know helicopter pilot Gary Ticehurst, who relayed Winston Churchill`s Mayday while hovering low in terrible conditions over another stricken yacht, and continued providing help for those in trouble, died in a helicopter crash over land some years later, in entirely innocuous circumstances.
My ex next door neighbour, navigator on (I think) Brindabella, provided first aid including his own body heat, to resuscitate a crew member with hypothermia from a boat they were standing by.
The race affected many lives. There was even litigation, which was proved entirely baseless, over an alleged failure to assist. Thank you for your interest in it.

That is interesting. Kinda awful/ironic/horrible/wrong for a person to do what Ticehurst did and then die in a copter crash. Same thing happened to Francis Gary Powers.

I have read a few books on the event and the lawsuit was an eye opener. I don't see how any/many of the boats could realistically render aide in those conditions without endangering themselves. Very chilling stuff.

Even though I was a kid, I can remember the news reports of the Fastnet. I can remember the 1998 Hobart race though I was not a kid.

Later,
Dan

 

[Al]

While the following relates to large vessels, one can relate in proportion. We, most of us, have been there in one form or another. Draw a cup of 'Gas Boat' coffee and enjoy.
Al-Ketchikan

 

[78puget-trawler]

Watched that for a half hour. Absolutely mesmerizing! Some awesome footage.

 

[bilge53]

Generally we don't learn all of that stuff and gain all of that experience on purpose on the first trip. Skills and judgement build and are perfected. Our oceans and lakes are not compassionate or forgiving.

You were lucky. Considerate yourself very fortunate.

 

[Wxx3]

Umm, not harsh, just nasty:

"Do it my way or else"

"Oh, and I'll also tell you how to spend your money"

The Thought Police are out in force today.

So, I'll leave you with this provocative thought:

What about a forum, we could even call out something like trawler forum, where people interested in boats, being on the water, etc, can take the time to share their experiences with others?

This could be very useful to young and old alike.

Learn from other's experiences.

Now that's an idea!

But we can only learn from other's, if other's are willing to take the time to write about it.

And no one would take that time if they thought they were just going to open themselves up to ridicule and insults.

Before I had Dauntless, I learned a lot from reading all manners of boating and sea faring stuff.

I was able to avoid a lot of mistakes from that prior learning.

However, there is still a learning process.

My intent in relating my English Channel adventure was not to curry fame and fortune from the venerable TF crowd, but instead to explain what happened so other's can avoid the same fate.

Had I previously read an account like mine, I would have been more aware of the issues in the English Channel and would have done everything differently.

I'm sure that's exactly what most of the poster's had in mine in this thread.

Now, I have an ocean to cross.

Richard on Dauntless in rainy, cold and windy Morocco, waiting & waiting.

Oh, maybe I'm waiting the wrong way?
I'm sure I'll hear about it on any case

Have a good day!

 

[waddenkruiser]

I'm convinced that it is not only the wave height which makes it sometimes nasty for us. Even smaller waves will force our boat into serious motions if they hit us with a frequency matching the rolling Eigen-frequency of the hull. We have been in (long) waves as high as 9' without any inconvenience, but experienced very nasty rolling angles up to 35-40 degrees in 4-5' (short and steep) seas on other trips.
Rolling Eigen-period of our hull is in the range of 3.5 seconds. Based on the forecasted seas (heights, direction and period) we try to predict the period with which the waves will hit us depending on our intended course. Sometimes we can avoid resonance by adjusting the speed and / or course, sometimes those measures won't give us enough safety margin. That are the days where we nowadays stay in port even if the forecast is below 5'.
And then there are those days where the forecast fails and you see the equipment flying through the pilot house ...