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Old 07-16-2016, 10:08 AM   #81
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Captain...

Would you happen to have a picture of the 453 in your boat... posting the pic would be appreciated.

Carl

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Ya know I kept hearing about the noise, vibration and propensity to leak oil of the Detroit 453's while I was considering and shopping for LRC's. I couldn't have been more surprised at how smooth, clean and quiet they were in the boat I bought. They don't burn or leak hardly any oil, way less than Lehmans I've had. And maybe it's a testament to the 1976 Hatteras engine room sound proofing but this is the quietest boat I've ever had allowing normal conversation anywhere on the boat underway.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:34 AM   #82
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The new Cummins V8 5.0 appears to be a real winner in the mid-size range. Not marinized....yet.


https://cumminsengines.com/nissan-titan
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:34 AM   #83
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funny...a lot of people badmouthed the V8 Cat 3208...just because it was a V8.


wish Cummins and all diesel owners a bright future...
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Old 07-16-2016, 01:11 PM   #84
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Back in 1973 they were the 3160 for marine and 1160 for "land".
Both versions had some problems.
I opted for the Cummins V-504M because it was a little lower in height
and was built with cylinder liners.

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Old 07-16-2016, 01:43 PM   #85
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"Back in 1973 they were the 3160 for marine and 1160 for "land"."

No the 1160 was a fine engine built first for long term service. It had removable liners and could be "in framed" , given an overhaul with out removing it from a vehicle.

Sadly most went into skool buses , or sometimes refuse service.

The Skools get new taxpayer buses fairly often so the ability to in frame overhaul was a luxury that was not required.

The cheaper to produce 3208 was more competitive in the throwaway market.
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:51 PM   #86
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I am going to have to majorly disagree with you. A boat is continuously under load...WAY more than a car or truck. They need that low end grunt to get them up and going. I know we are on trawler forum. But the vast majority of larger planing boats are diesel powered for a reason and that is TORQUE!!!...POWER!!! I have been on a Viking 68 sport fish doing 40kts. I think the power setting was around 1900RPMs...right in the meat of the torque curve. That is an extreme example but I cruise ar about 2300. Again...right in the meat of the power. I may have misunderstood you. But boats need torque way more than a car.

To put it another way, boats are going uphill continuously...
Mr Baker SIR,
Sorry to have rearranged what you think is right in the world but this is a TRAWLER forum. And on trawlers going slow takes very little power. My Willy looses less than one knot at half power. At 1/4 power she will loose a little more but she will probably go at half speed w a 6hp OB hung on the stern. And I'm even sure I could row an Albin 25 one knot. It's just the way it is. And I've never ever heard of a trawler that lacked enough "low end grunt" to easily get up to cruising speed.

Planing hulls are different of course. Dragging that big stern up over the bow wave takes lots of mid-range power .. no doubt. But this is TF where we speak trawler speak and any engine has plenty of torque to do what trawlers do. And of course trawlers don't plane.
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:22 PM   #87
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I stand (sit?) corrected.
The info had been given to me when researching engines for my new boat
at that time.
Thanks

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Old 07-16-2016, 03:25 PM   #88
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Boats equal Constant speed/Constant load. Highway service equals up and down stop (idle) and accelerate.
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:39 PM   #89
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Eric with all due respect hull shapes do not change the laws of physics. When you cruise Willy at 6 knots can you pull back on the throttle and maintain 6 knots? If not you are effectively "traveling uphill" and relying upon rotational shaft torque converted at the prop into directional thrust to maintain progress.

My Toyota has a five speed transmission that allows me to change ratios increasing speed as I overcome resistance. 2,000 rpm can represent anywhere from 8-65 mph. You never overcome resistance through the water or multi speed transmissions would work on boats.
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Old 07-16-2016, 04:52 PM   #90
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Indeed Craig well put,
But .... There's frequently a "but", you need very little power or torque to get them moving and very little power or torque to keep them moving at slow speed and trawlers are indeed slow. The only time you need more power is at the high end of their speed range and at the high end of their power range depending on how over powered or over propped they are.

Above average "grunt" from hp or torque is just not needed to such an extent it should'nt even be sought out. Will be no benefit. Of course I'm talking about engines propped to their rated rpm.

I just traded my Honda Accord CVT for a 5spd manual Jetta 2.5 liter. Had a 2014 Jetta w turbo and the lag that comes w it. This 2.5 liter has 700cc displacement advantage and the low speed "grunt" that goes w it ... and I make good use of it. Significantly less mpg so I pay for my driveability but very happy to do so.

You'd think trawlers would have and need good torque because they are big and heavy. Big and heavy is almost always associated w high torque slow speed engines so many others probably have the same misconception that high torque engines are the nature of trawlers but there's no justification for it. However on rare occurances a big trawler w a very low gear and big prop could use some extra torque to power up the sides of big waves and to stop the vessel in tight quarters but such vessels are not common in the trawler world.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:42 PM   #91
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It's too easy to think only in terms of one's own boat when, in reality, there are many other boat styles represented here in Trawler Forum. Maybe a small, FD hull only requires a little power and torque to operate at the speed of smell, but other boats here require real power to shine at their favored speed.

To each his own... That doesn't make one right and the other wrong, but generalizations typically fall short on the accuracy scale.
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:07 PM   #92
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Al,
Just because I own a "small FD boat" " "operate at the speed of smell" .... "speed of smell" I love that Al.

I was not. I was talking about SD trawlers ... a typical SD trawler that has a hull that clearly is'nt a planing hull. Many boats that most think of as trawlers actually have a planing hull w a keel more significant than most planing hulls. Many of these trawlers that look like a trawler (like a Camano 31) but go 20 knots because they have a planing hull aren't true trawlers IMO but that's another debate. Sure ... Planing hulls masquerading as trawlers may need hump power or extra power to drag their huge transoms along but true trawlers w true SD hulls will not.

But re the "what is a trawler" debate there will never be a universally accepted black and white line between trawlers and non trawlers because in fact trawlerness (new word) exists in degrees. I can say this boat is more of a trawler than that boat and basically w all boats .... except those that are too close to call. And there are many many boats that are indeed too close to call.
So the answer to the question is not whether or not a boat is a trawler or not but how much of a trawler is it?

But no I was not thinking of my own boat. I have been guilty of that in the past though. But perhaps my boat is'nt as much of a trawler as many SD trawlers. After all the average trawler is clearly a SD boat .. not a FD boat like my Willard.
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Old 07-16-2016, 11:18 PM   #93
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I give that definition wide berth. It's more fun to be inclusive...as long as we're not talking about including sailboats. That's where I'd have to draw the line.
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:23 AM   #94
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"multi speed transmissions would work on boats."

They do for special purposes ZF makes them.

These work better than CPP to match the boats propulsion load to the engine BMEP peak.
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Old 07-17-2016, 02:34 PM   #95
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ZF makes two speed trannies for fast planing boats, sole purpose is to get boat over the "hump". How is that better than CPP? CPP is the "cat's meow" as far as controlling engine loading.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:59 AM   #96
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The ZF can just as easily be installed to allow a displacement boat to speed up the shaft , raising the engine load while doing the trawler crawl .

Same concept as a cruising prop to get into the BMEP sweet spot , with less chance of a dummy overloading the engine.

The CCP can bot change blade area only pitch , which helps a bit , but not as much as spinning the shaft 25% or 30% faster .

Crank in too much pitch and the prop just cavitates

Both would be great , but a really expensive way to save fuel.

An interesting concept is the far east drives where the prop is held underwater to accelerate the boat , and only half is under at speed.

This is low cost and efficient , but hardly OK for a mom & pop retirement boat.
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