Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-16-2017, 07:52 PM   #1
Member
 
City: bayonne
Country: us
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 17
Best diesel lubricity formula

I have been using STANADYNE performance formula & STANADYNE lubricity formula in my 1981 mainship 1 / 200 hp perk 1400 hrs. for years. A friend swears by OPTI LUBE XPD for increasing lubricity. Any thoughts on either product ? THANKS RICH S.
__________________
Advertisement

richardschmidt2759 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:08 PM   #2
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich Yacht Club, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,814
All major diesel oil brands have enough lubricity to keep your engine in shape. IMO there is no reason for additives. The same is true for synthetic oil. Yes its lubricity properties are better than dino oil, but not enough to make any difference.

David
__________________

djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:27 PM   #3
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,886
Mediterranean diet, best longevity ever, use good quality olive oil!

( Disclaimer: this is only a joke and I am not responsible if you try it)

L
Lou_tribal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:28 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
All major diesel oil brands have enough lubricity to keep your engine in shape. IMO there is no reason for additives. The same is true for synthetic oil. Yes its lubricity properties are better than dino oil, but not enough to make any difference.

David
Disagree. Although my disagreement is an opinion as is djmarchand's.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:34 PM   #5
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,734
The refiners reformulated to address the so-called lubricity issue a long time ago.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:39 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
The refiners reformulated to address the so-called lubricity issue a long time ago.
To a minimum standard that is inadequate.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:42 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: Flanders, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 83
Is it correct or not that the ulsd has less lubrication quality then the latter? Some I have heard said the sulfer helped lubed fuel systems. Thats before high pressure fuel pumps and tighter tolerance injectors.
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 08:44 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Chelsea Rose
Vessel Model: Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 399
I also previously used Stenadyne, and have a case of it in my garage and stopped using it awhile back, solely based on discussions on web forums. "What does the manual say" - nada, at least for the engines I had.


The question I would have is what are the commercial operators doing with their mid to larger size engines? IE, operators who rely on the engines for hard and long hours. I am going to guess and say they are not adding anything and the big organizatioins are doing periodic fluid sampling and pushing their fluid life cycles out as far as they can in general, so adding $ stuff like this is likely not in their budget, or worth the hassle for them.
Fletcher500 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 09:24 PM   #9
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,716
Some engine manufacturers address it by saying if fuel does not meet spec, additives are recommended.

If they sell them, why wouldnt they recommend them all the time?
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2017, 11:37 PM   #10
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,635
Someone else's opinion would seem useless in this endeavor. Why not just look for emperical data? Specifically lab reports of the HFRR scar number results of treated fuel. I'm not at work this week, but I do have the ASTM standard downloaded on my work PC.

The additive either decreases the scuffing or it doesn't.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 01:18 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 11
I use Stanadyne PF on my CAT 3208 and my NL M843N per recommendation of Bob Senter. Bob is the gentleman responsible for training the NL and Lugger techs as well as offering owner training. He is sometimes referred to by the nickname "Lugger Bob" and is highly respected by many in the marine engine and mechanical systems space. I attended Bob's excellent diesel class as well as the free class for Northern Light owners in 2011 and have used SPF since.

A week ago Bob made a presentation to the CUBAR group and again suggested SPF. When asked about alternative products his response was that he couldn't speak to them as he had no scientific evidence of their performance and he had seen thorough documentation of such evidence re: SPF. He described the research done by an engine manufacturer (and source of base engines for Lugger) who tried to lay warranty related injector performance problems off on the injector supplier they used. The injector supplier indicated they'd specified SPF. The engine manufacturer then started a research process of following the injector supplier's recommendation with the expectation they'd refute the recommendation and then get their claim honored. After extensive analysis the engine manufacturer was not able to assert it's claim. And based on that analysis they started private labeling SPF as an additive they sell/supply to their customers. Thus the evidence of which Bob was referring.

My understanding is a fundamental design component is that large quantities of diesel fuel are pumped through the engine fuel system (substantially more than is used in the ignition process) to lubricate and cool the fuel system components - pumps and injectors. Thus the issues of managing fuel return lines to the tanks and so on. Ultra-low sulfur diesel is contrary to this system design need and thus the benefit of SPF.
Sealegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 02:18 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Someone else's opinion would seem useless in this endeavor. Why not just look for emperical data? Specifically lab reports of the HFRR scar number results of treated fuel. I'm not at work this week, but I do have the ASTM standard downloaded on my work PC.

The additive either decreases the scuffing or it doesn't.
Yup.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 02:20 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealegs View Post
I use Stanadyne PF on my CAT 3208 and my NL M843N per recommendation of Bob Senter. Bob is the gentleman responsible for training the NL and Lugger techs as well as offering owner training. He is sometimes referred to by the nickname "Lugger Bob" and is highly respected by many in the marine engine and mechanical systems space. I attended Bob's excellent diesel class as well as the free class for Northern Light owners in 2011 and have used SPF since.

A week ago Bob made a presentation to the CUBAR group and again suggested SPF. When asked about alternative products his response was that he couldn't speak to them as he had no scientific evidence of their performance and he had seen thorough documentation of such evidence re: SPF. He described the research done by an engine manufacturer (and source of base engines for Lugger) who tried to lay warranty related injector performance problems off on the injector supplier they used. The injector supplier indicated they'd specified SPF. The engine manufacturer then started a research process of following the injector supplier's recommendation with the expectation they'd refute the recommendation and then get their claim honored. After extensive analysis the engine manufacturer was not able to assert it's claim. And based on that analysis they started private labeling SPF as an additive they sell/supply to their customers. Thus the evidence of which Bob was referring.

My understanding is a fundamental design component is that large quantities of diesel fuel are pumped through the engine fuel system (substantially more than is used in the ignition process) to lubricate and cool the fuel system components - pumps and injectors. Thus the issues of managing fuel return lines to the tanks and so on. Ultra-low sulfur diesel is contrary to this system design need and thus the benefit of SPF.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Someone else's opinion would seem useless in this endeavor. Why not just look for emperical data? Specifically lab reports of the HFRR scar number results of treated fuel. I'm not at work this week, but I do have the ASTM standard downloaded on my work PC.

The additive either decreases the scuffing or it doesn't.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 04:19 AM   #14
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 738
Cummins Carl here in Australia has never mentioned it to me.
Does his not mentioning it cancel our Lugger Bobs?

Sounds like the usual fuel additive / biocide / magnets / fairys, snake oil to me.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 04:20 AM   #15
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealegs View Post
I.
Thus the evidence of which Bob was referring.
Care to share this "evidence" with us?
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 05:23 AM   #16
Guru
 
City: Sydney
Country: Australia
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,328
not this rubbish again !!!!!!!!

gaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 07:40 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,310
I well remember the good old days before low sulfur fuels were around. The after market additives were there then. Similar claims. As Spy says, scuff tests results are out there.

One just has to look. Google Infineum. Their results showed no loss in fuel "acceptability" as sulfur levels decreased. In other words, refiners did their job.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 07:44 AM   #18
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,639
Confucius says "if you like snakes, buy snake oil".
__________________
Buffalo Bluff Light 28
Donsan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 08:20 AM   #19
CMS
Senior Member
 
City: Casco Bay
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 132
Guys,

My buddy Darren owns a very large excavation company with over 60 diesel engines in his fleet. At any given time more than 50% of his fleet have in excess of 10,000 hours on them. He uses no fuel additives what so ever. He has had numerous un-rebuilt Cummins, Cats, Deere's, Yanmars and Kubotoa engines all exceed 20,000 hours. One of his employees, his lead mechanic, used to work as a diesel mechanic on outpost generators in Alaska, the same Cat, Cummins etc. engines we use in boats powering small towns or outposts. These engines run 24/7/365 and they also don't use any fuel additives. It's always good for me to pick their brains when I am over-thinking marine engines that barely see a few hundred hours per year..
CMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2017, 08:35 AM   #20
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,832
Most larger engines the injection pump is lubed with lube oil, not fuel. On those very little metal is lubed with fuel. Unit injector engines in same category.

Some smaller engines use fuel lubed inj pumps: Lucas CAV, Cat 3208, Bosch VE, and now the common rail.

In 20yrs of marine diesel experience, I have replaced a few 3208 pumps due to cam wear, a couple CAV pumps with unexplained failures, and heard of quite a few VW CR car pump failures (crappy design).

The 3208 failures were all in high hour, high hp apps where engines were routinely run hard. No failures in trawler type service.

Other than those, injection equipment is fantastically reliable without using any additives.

I have never bought any additive for diesel in my fleet, and don't recommend them for the fleet where I coordinate maintenance. Only thing that may be used is a biocide, but that is a different issue.
__________________

Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012