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Old 06-24-2015, 12:56 PM   #81
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Nordhavn recently put the video of the NAR on Youtube. (Doug Harlow channel) Just watched it a few nights ago. Very informative and yes, several stabilizer problems. I do recognize that this rally was over 10 years ago and technologies and reliabilities change over time. Seems the best solution for ocean crossings is to have both ... and maybe Flopper Stoppers for when at anchor. Budget Dept - "NO" ...Oh, what do you mean I can't have everything? I appreciate them putting out the video and view it as a company's honesty and integrity showing warts and all, and not blowing smoke up the buyers you know what. I don't think it hurts them at all, personally. But yes, pretty complicated boats.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:15 PM   #82
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Don,
Paravanes can be a problem if not used propperly. Run the wire or chain too short for example and you run the risk of a "fish" coming crashing through the cabin. Not a pleasant thought. I hear they should be run 15' deep. Of course that will vary re beam of boat, length of poles ect. For those that need specific directions w hard numbers some stress will result from making calls that are "about right" re dimensions, weights ect.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:24 PM   #83
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Don,
Paravanes can be a problem if not used propperly. Run the wire or chain too short for example and you run the risk of a "fish" coming crashing through the cabin. Not a pleasant thought. I hear they should be run 15' deep. Of course that will vary re beam of boat, length of poles ect. For those that need specific directions w hard numbers some stress will result from making calls that are "about right" re dimensions, weights ect.
Eric: Your right if not used properly. Like anything else on a boat if the design, the installation, proper maintenance and then properly operated, you should have minimal issues. After 10000 plus miles of running with the paravanes deployed I can't imagine the fish crashing into the cabin. I think the odds are a lot higher off shearing off a fin on active stabilizers before that happening but then again it's a boat...
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:25 PM   #84
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That was like my for real first like super big moment cruising offshore, the first time in my life I ever was on the water and couldn't see land. It was like "whoa.....where did it go....this is freaky".
LOL...My wife had that same reactions crossing the (relatively puny) Pamlico sound the other day!
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:52 PM   #85
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LOL...My wife had that same reactions crossing the (relatively puny) Pamlico sound the other day!
Wifey B: Something about it all still just amazes me. My hubby grew up boating and loved it so and I remember the first time on his boat on the lake. I can't put it into words but instantly I knew the feeling he had. It's sort of like the world and all it's stresses and problems exist on land and when you get on the water you're leaving it all behind, even if just for a while. Put me behind the wheel or at the helm and I don't think of other things.

Then like the ocean...omg it's...maybe it's the fact that it has no end. It just goes into other oceans and they go into other. Land ends. You walk off that end and you go kerplunk and if it's the wrong place then it's bye bye baby. The ocean isn't just as far as you can see...it's infinite. You see things that are just so spectacular every day.

Ok, here's one that threw me. We lived on the lake. Hubby was ready to take me out in the boat while it was pouring down snowing. Out we went, boat buttoned up. Me dressed in like 30 layers of stuff. Then I saw it. Undisturbed snow. It all looked Kinkadish. It just hit me. On land it's always had people or cars or something through it, messing the picture up, like photobombing. But from the water, everything so perfect, so peaceful. We stayed out hours just seeing the world in a different pose.

I don't know, just every day I get out on the water is a new fun day. Wind in my face and hair, salt air. I'm refreshed. We had a like really tough day on Sunday, had to help someone badly in need. Draining. But Monday morning when we pulled away from the dock, all my energy came back.
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:04 PM   #86
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Then like the ocean...omg it's...maybe it's the fact that it has no end. It just goes into other oceans and they go into other. Land ends. You walk off that end and you go kerplunk and if it's the wrong place then it's bye bye baby. The ocean isn't just as far as you can see...it's infinite. You see things that are just so spectacular every day.


I don't know, just every day I get out on the water is a new fun day. Wind in my face and hair, salt air. I'm refreshed. We had a like really tough day on Sunday, had to help someone badly in need. Draining. But Monday morning when we pulled away from the dock, all my energy came back.
I know those feelings...I sailed 700 miles from NJ to Bermuda years ago on a 31 footer. One of the most amazing things is the sky at night, hundreds of miles from the nearest light source....The sensory deprivation can get to you during the day though..

We had a tough day Monday pounding across the Pamilico in our tiny 28 footer.. Draining for sure, but in the end a great trip. All worth it..We saw new places, met some interesting people and knew we could do it in the future, even under less than perfect conditions..
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:25 PM   #87
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So how does the Diesel Duck stack up as a passagemaker? How would they be compared to the same size Nordhavn? Seems like they have a fair amount of blue water under their belt.
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:30 PM   #88
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Steve, there is nothing quite like the Pamlico chop. I consider Maw Point one of the most dangerous spots on the ICW. Even more true when wind is out of the NE. It is not wise to take the Pamlico for granted.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:34 PM   #89
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Our Krogen 42 has not crossed an ocean. It has active stabilizers which when they work are wonderful. Having followed the 2004 Nordhavn trans Atlantic rally I would not rely upon a small boat's active stabilizers to make the trip. Paravanes would be my choice. Admittedly the stabilizer manufacturers have beefed up this system since 2004.

As far as keeping it simple, my choice is simple, active stabilizers or my wife goes home. This is particularly true because in the Eastern Caribbean the waves are normally 5 to 8 feet on the beam. Without stabilizers we would roll excessively. A couple Krogens have come down without the stabilizers. My hats off to them. 19 out of 20 boats down here are sailboats, and of the trawlers, 4 out of 5 have stabilizers.

Discount the usefulness of waiting for a good weather window, generally a great weather window is 1.5 meters or 5 feet. Last season there were 3 meter days, 10 feet, day after day for weeks on end.
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Old 06-25-2015, 06:38 AM   #90
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"The sensory deprivation can get to you during the day though.."

That's why books were invented.
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:48 PM   #91
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So how does the Diesel Duck stack up as a passagemaker? How would they be compared to the same size Nordhavn? Seems like they have a fair amount of blue water under their belt.
As I have stated before I am not a big fan of most Ducks.. the lounging attributes lack on most of them... but they seem to be well liked by folks I have personally met regarding the way they are underway. Most of them are laid out too much like a sailboat and a bit cave like.. one of the reasons we switched from sail to power.

The two local ones I am familiar with are really great boats..

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Old 06-25-2015, 12:56 PM   #92
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Getting back to the original question, took a look at the Elling at a recent Trawlerfest in Anacortes, beautiful boat and many unique approaches to design. Evidence suggests they also handle blue water pretty well... this is the outfit that did the marketing "ploy" of demonstrating a full 360-degree roll with the owner strapped inside

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Old 06-25-2015, 01:00 PM   #93
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"The sensory deprivation can get to you during the day though.."

That's why books were invented.
Music, television, internet. Plenty of things to occupy our minds and refresh. And breaks from the helm or watch. Even at the helm, looking in different directions, at different screens and instead of just blindly looking out upon the water, find things on the water to absorb. Sort of like long road trips with kids in the backseat. You give them something to occupy their minds.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:13 PM   #94
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The compromises of vessels design for ocean travel often include narrow divided interior spaces with lots of hand holds. I don't like them but in a rough sea, I bet I'd prefer banging around between two walls 7 ft apart than I would 15 ft apart. maybe if I was an ocean cruiser I would feel a lot different.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:41 PM   #95
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The compromises of vessels design for ocean travel often include narrow divided interior spaces with lots of hand holds. I don't like them but in a rough sea, I bet I'd prefer banging around between two walls 7 ft apart than I would 15 ft apart. maybe if I was an ocean cruiser I would feel a lot different.
Hand holds definitely, on any boat. You can get a sudden jolt anytime so when looking at a boat, looking at hand holds is important.

As to the narrow divided spaces, some are designed that way and others are not. For me, would feel too claustrophobic, like many sailboats. Fine for a few hours, but not for days. It's like looking at cabins in a Catamaran. They're narrow. I can't imagine sleeping regularly in one.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:46 PM   #96
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So have we decided what trawler like a GB or NT is more seaworthy?

What are some examples of a blue water trawler? I would
place the Elling in that catergory. Little things like the abundance of hand holds would be necessary and may not be standard equipment.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:58 PM   #97
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So have we decided what trawler like a GB or NT is more seaworthy?

Seems to me that's what the OP was looking for.
I don't think we've decided anything. Defining Seaworthy might help a bit. Is it cruising along the coast or crossing to the Bahamas or to the Caribbean Islands or Transatlantic or Transpacific.

I think we indicated many are to a point but not to the extreme. In the Under 60' requirements, personally I'd rank Fleming at the top, then KK and Nordhavn, then the Tugs and Ducks, then Selene, Grand Banks and such after that.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:07 PM   #98
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As I have stated before I am not a big fan of most Ducks.. the lounging attributes lack on most of them... but they seem to be well liked by folks I have personally met regarding the way they are underway. Most of them are laid out too much like a sailboat and a bit cave like.. one of the reasons we switched from sail to power.

The two local ones I am familiar with are really great boats..

HOLLYWOOD
I'm confused why you keep saying the Ducks lack lounging attributes and they are cave like. Of the four areas for lounging (the saloon, aft cockpit, pilothouse and fly bridge, three of the four areas have spectacular views of the surrounding area. In fact, two of those three have 360 degree views while the aft cockpit has a wonderful 180 degree view. That all said, why you keep insisting the Ducks are too much like living in a cave bewilders me, it's almost like you've never been aboard a Diesel Duck or you have some kind of grudge against them. Just Sayin'
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:17 PM   #99
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So how does the Diesel Duck stack up as a passagemaker? How would they be compared to the same size Nordhavn? Seems like they have a fair amount of blue water under their belt.
The layout in the typical Nordhavn would be preferred by most but therein lies one of the reason I chose a Diesel Duck. While the Nordy's might have a nice saloon with an adjoining cockpit aft that cockpit area holds tons of water should you be healed enough for it to go over the gunwales.

Another reason for my choosing a Duck over a Nordhavn (BTW, I was a Nordhavn dreamer for over seven years until I came to my senses) is that hitting something with a steel hulled boat is less likely to cause significant damage than if your were to hit something with a plastic boat, a Nordhavn. Also, should one have any hull damaged while on a voyage, getting steel damage repaired in remote areas is much easier with steel than with FRP.

And one final consideration is the fact that a Diesel Duck is about half the cost of a similar sized Nordhavn.

And yes, many a Duck have crossed oceans, just not with the marketing campaign behind them like Nordhavn did for the NAR in 2004.

IMHO, the Diesel Duck is one of the safest passagemakers on the market today.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:28 PM   #100
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The layout in the typical Nordhavn would be preferred by most but therein lies one of the reason I chose a Diesel Duck. While the Nordy's might have a nice saloon with an adjoining cockpit aft that cockpit area holds tons of water should you be healed enough for it to go over the gunwales.

Another reason for my choosing a Duck over a Nordhavn (BTW, I was a Nordhavn dreamer for over seven years until I came to my senses) is that hitting something with a steel hulled boat is less likely to cause significant damage that if your were to hit something with a plastic boat, a Nordhavn.

And one final consideration is the fact that a Diesel Duck is about half the cost of a similar sized Nordhavn.

And yes, many a Duck have crossed oceans, just not with the marketing campaign behind them like Nordhavn did for the NAR in 2004.
I'm afraid you just confirmed Hollywood's opinions. Salon=lounging around. Put him in the group that would prefer Nordhavn vs. Duck. Others, like you, would be the opposite. Ducks are nice boats.

If you want to compare steel vs. steel then compare Diesel Duck to Bering. I would guess most who prefer Nordhavn would prefer the Bering, but many steel boat fans would prefer the Duck and say it was better built for bad conditions. A lot is style and use of space.

I think his comment that Ducks remind him of sailboats rings very true. Many are offered with sails. It's not negative or positive, just a differentiation.
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