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Old 06-22-2015, 12:35 PM   #61
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Exactly. Well said.

And on another note, on what basis does nordhavn get the crown?

Or is this also about the "best" marketing??
Nordhavn absolutely has had the best and most effective marketing. I also have an issue with "crowning" them. They make a good boat but the impression that theere aren't other boats that can also do what theirs are known for. The most recent crossing of the Atlantic revealed here wasn't a Nordhavn...

This is in no way meant to put Nordhavn down, just to emphasize there are other quality boats in their ranges.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:09 PM   #62
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This is one of my listings that fits my definition of a trawler. At 80 feet it is over this threads parameters but with an asking price of $2,450,000 you might get it $1 below $2 million.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:10 PM   #63
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Richard on Dauntless re your posts 57, 58,and 59 .........

Does that apply to anchors?

Please don't respond.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:13 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post

Nordhavn absolutely has had the best and most effective marketing. I also have an issue with "crowning" them. They make a good boat but the impression that theere aren't other boats that can also do what theirs are known for. The most recent crossing of the Atlantic revealed here wasn't a Nordhavn...

This is in no way meant to put Nordhavn down, just to emphasize there are other quality boats in their ranges.
Plenty of people have crossed an ocean in a far less capable boat than a Kadey Krogen or a Nordhavn.

I've read every account of power boats making passages that I could find.

The majority are accounts of Nordhavns. Which in large part is due to their marketing AND the fact that they had a hand in Passagemaker magazine.

I recall only a few accounts of Krogens.

And a number of accounts of the one offs.

It was from these stories that I decided on the Krogen. Why?

Two big reasons:

1. Of all the Nordhavn accounts of crossing oceans, they always had some system failure, mainly the stabilizers.

2. The Krogen is simply a more efficient boat. At least 10% on fuel and I think in the living space also, but I will grant that's a personal preference. And I'm sure the Nordy's will say that makes their boat more salty, but show me the data that proves that.

Connected to the cost issue is the total number of systems on their boats, which while being marketed as redundancy, I think actually leads to the failures they have.

I could not afford a boat in which I had to replace major components.

In sum, I've driven a 25 year old boat, up and down the east coast twice, across the North Atlantic and now into the North Sea.

That's over 2000 hours, 12,000 nm and the Krogen has never had a failure of a Krogen installed part.

All my problems have been caused by ME.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:23 PM   #65
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1. Of all the Nordhavn accounts of crossing oceans, they always had some system failure, mainly the stabilizers.

.
Stabilizers were a huge problem on the 2004 Atlantic Rally. I think there were a lot of participants though only doing it because it was a rally. More than one decided on the way to sell their boat if they made it across.

I believe Nordhavn has solved the stabilizer issue now.

Boats of many sizes and shapes cross oceans. To think there's only one or two trawlers capable is a misunderstanding. It just starts with the boat itself, but the real keys once you have a boat with a capable hull, is the condition of the boat and the skills and knowledge of the crew.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:30 AM   #66
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"I believe Nordhavn has solved the stabilizer issue now. "

Everything slowly wears out , until they solve the wearing out part repairing complex hydraulics will remain a hassle.

Along with engines trannys auto pilots and all the rest.

Theb sailors get it right nwhen noticing no repairs are needed for what nis NOT aboard.

KISS,,, for a cruiser , more time cruising less time fixing.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:15 AM   #67
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Never seen stabilizers on a fish boat. They all use paravanes.

With stabilizers if the engine failed the stabilizers would fail for being useless.

KISS for safety in a big storm.

yachtbrokerguy,
Yes that boat has a wheelhouse too far fwd to be a Passagemaker. So it must be a trawler.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:15 AM   #68
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It's all an individual thing. Some cross like the chicken just to get to the other side. We're going to cross when we do so for the experience of crossing. We don't want to just experience the two sides but we trip across as well.
Have you ever crossed an ocean on a vessel before?

Not judging...just curious.....
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ssobol
There is a guy who went completely around North and South America without touching land in a 27' Vega. Not a trawler, but I think that qualifies as a blue water boat.

Didn't someone cross the Atlantic on a tire tube? __________________
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Technically debatable...circumnavigating N & S America in my book could be coastal cruising...not crossing an ocean. Even not touching land doesn't mean he coudn't have if necessary. But it was a feat.


Reminds me of so many people who will run their small boat 50 miles up the coast...but won't go 10 miles offshore....human nature is a funny thing.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:59 AM   #70
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Have you ever crossed an ocean on a vessel before?

Not judging...just curious.....
No. And when we do it will be with crew that has done so many times, in a boat more than capable, and still recognizing that it can possibly turn quite unpleasant. We definitely don't take it lightly and will be very cautious. It's likely to happen some time between 4 and 6 years from now.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:09 AM   #71
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Reminds me of so many people who will run their small boat 50 miles up the coast...but won't go 10 miles offshore....human nature is a funny thing.
Those who run overnight runs to Key West or north up the Atlantic coast but won't cross to the Bahamas. We've run across coastal boaters in South Florida who don't realize Bimini is less than 60 nm away. We were talking to a couple in Miami who didn't realize Bimini was closer to them than West Palm.
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Old 06-24-2015, 10:38 AM   #72
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I have had people totally freak out when they lost sight of land.. my humming the theme song of Gilligan's Island was the icing on the cake. If one heads offshore the weather WILL turn to crap at some point. Hopefully it doesn't last too long and make the folks never get on a boat out of sight of land again.. but that also happens.

As many blue water sea miles as I have I still have times when I ask myself W.T.F. was I thinking to try/do this again??. So far though the call of the sea is still stronger than the feeling to not leave terra firma.

The key to ANY "passagemaker" is a well found,solid,well maintained that the capt. can acquire a deep working knowledge of its systems to be able to fix all the stuff that goes wonky or breaks.. because it will happen.

We are about to become empty nesters and try as I do I cannot get the Admiral to sell the farm and go blue water.. yet. I figure I will just have to keep wearing her down till she gives up.

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Old 06-24-2015, 11:03 AM   #73
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My point is I have cruised the ocean many a day....like some others here.


For a brief period it has it's romance for me...for some...always....


In my experience...most find it boring rather quickly.


Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.


I know I would....not much to see and the threat of danger is pretty lopsided in my book...but for some...it is the "call of the sea"....
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:09 AM   #74
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Very true for many people. While working tows on the W. Rivers and Inland Waterways I was assigned a new to my boat pilot. Everything was going well for several months until we got order to run to Mobile from Baton Rouge. He completely lost it when we got out into the Mississippi Sound. After staying awake for 36 hours I had to get a new pilot sent out when we got to the dock in Mobile.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:15 AM   #75
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Wifey B: To me if I can't see land, I can't see land. Whether I'm ten miles or a hundred miles from it, I now use means other than visual. That was like my for real first like super big moment cruising offshore, the first time in my life I ever was on the water and couldn't see land. It was like "whoa.....where did it go....this is freaky".

Now obviously distance and ability to get to shore are important. To me that first hit when I took a trip that I couldn't go from land to land during the day.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:37 AM   #76
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I believe Nordhavn has solved the stabilizer issue now.

http://www.pendanablog.com/pendana-n...ough-Run-North

I'm in the FF camp, KISS
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:40 AM   #77
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[QUOTE=psneeld;343331]...
Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it [on one's own] earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.

...[QUOTE]

"Baptized" at the Horn, on a cruise ship:

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Old 06-24-2015, 11:43 AM   #78
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We are about to become empty nesters and try as I do I cannot get the Admiral to sell the farm and go blue water.. yet. I figure I will just have to keep wearing her down till she gives up.
Ah, yes, the lesser known version of "Noah's Ark Syndrome."

As in...what was the name of Noah's wife?
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:51 AM   #79
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My point is I have cruised the ocean many a day....like some others here.


For a brief period it has it's romance for me...for some...always....


In my experience...most find it boring rather quickly.


Thus all the attractions on cruise ships.


To do it earns a bit of bragging rights...just like the crossing traditions of Equator, Dateline, Artic/Antarctic circles...etc....but in the long run many would rather "be there" than cross.


I know I would....not much to see and the threat of danger is pretty lopsided in my book...but for some...it is the "call of the sea"....
For us, no interest in bragging rights, no braving it against the elements as we will do all possible to minimize risks. There are excursions we have no interest in. Antarctica is one of those. Panama Canal was a great adventure, Cape Horn does not hold any appeal. Circumnavigation doesn't attract us as right now there are just too many areas with risks we're not willing to take. Even in Central and South America there are areas we'll avoid. We aren't really risk takers, so are very careful to control and manage those risks.

Crossing the Atlantic after the first time probably does become just about getting to the other side. But the first time it's an adventure that we want to pursue. Same thing, one day to Hawaii and to the Galapagos.

Over time as world conditions vary, our plans well may. We'd love to spend time in the Pacific, boating around Australia and New Zealand. Today if we were ready to do that though, we'd fly and then charter there.

For us the sea is beautiful, but we still are risk managers, not takers. An example of that would be our Alaskan cruise. We did hire a pilot/captain very familiar with the area to help lead us. Could we have done it without? Yes. Would it have been as safe or as free of stress? No. We have been to Eleuthera several times but we still use a pilot into Romora Bay.

Once we've crossed the Atlantic and returned, I have no idea if we'll do it again. The next time, maybe ten years later, we might ship the boat or even charter in Europe.

As to finding things boring, we entertain ourselves pretty well when at sea. However, we've never been at sea the time it takes from Bermuda to the Azores. Our longest trek so far was 760 nm, about 64 hours. Bermuda to the Azores will be around 150 hours and depending on conditions could be longer. 130 hours minimum to 200 hours maximum.

When we started anything that required traveling at night seemed long to us.

When we do cross, too, we will be extra cautious weather wise with no preset calendar. If that means spending a month in Bermuda or the Azores then so be it. Those are not bad places to find yourself "stuck".

To us so much is just being on the water. Yesterday, we spent over 10 hours on the Chesapeake, going nowhere. We docked last night the same place we had the night before. We just took it all in and basked in the beauty.

We're not followers or copiers so we'll never go somewhere just because others have or others say it's the thing to do.

And the Great Loop is our next big adventure. It comes before a crossing. And although we'll travel home in the interim, we don't anticipate the boat making it home for perhaps 3 years.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:14 PM   #80
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Nordhavn did an extremely risky thing in making public the NAR and the circumnavigation of the N40. They put it all out there including the good, bad, and ugly. I have the DVD of the NAR. It is very informative. I too now believe that paravanes are the way to go. Even with hydraulic stabalizers paravanes would be a great backup.

Richard's crossing showed what simplicity on a power boat can do. There is something comforting about having most equipment on board that is reparable by the crew. Barring major disaster that is.
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