Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-15-2018, 07:58 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Sausalito
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Spirit
Vessel Model: Lien hwa
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 36
Battery question

Has anybody ever considered using NI-MH batteries or lithium Ione batteries in there boats as House or equipment batteries, I have an opportunity to have any and all types of hybrid and electric car batters from smart cars to Tesla , it seems they are much lighter and compact and all ranges of voltage , from what understand if the Lithium batteries create a fire itís almost impossible to extinguish ...might not be able to survey ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7DA3D304-B7B4-415A-98D7-83D184A4EBF5.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	100.7 KB
ID:	72993  
__________________
Advertisement

Mattie69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 08:35 PM   #2
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,514
Well this type of batteries are sold and used as house bank batteries so except the price I do not see why you should not be able touse them.

L
__________________

Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 09:00 PM   #3
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,842
I would only consider an integrated Li-ion system with a dedicated battery management system made by a name brand manufacturer of marine electrical equipment. Mastervolt is one of these.

But they ain't cheap. Almost $7,000 for 320 amp hours worth of ain't cheap!!

See Mastervolt MLI 12V - 320 AH Lithium Ion Battery

You can do the same for about $400 with lead acid batteries.

David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 07:29 AM   #4
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,601
To paraphrase Lou "Why"? Between the rather extreme expense and the fact that normal charging devices will not work with them... The only good reason I can think of is if there was some situation where ONLY that kind of battery would do...
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 08:28 AM   #5
Scraping Paint
 
City: CT
Country: US
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 963
LFP is the only non-lead chemistry safe enough.

"Lithium" is not specific enough, the other dozens of such are short-lived and fire-risky.

EV packs will get reverse-engineered by open-hardware guys, maybe usable as House banks on RVs, but boats IMO require a higher level of safety.

Now if your boat's big enough to carry a Prius as a complete unit, very useful self-contained genny+bank, plus heating/aircon in a pinch.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 10:57 AM   #6
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
LFP is the only non-lead chemistry safe enough.

"Lithium" is not specific enough, the other dozens of such are short-lived and fire-risky.

EV packs will get reverse-engineered by open-hardware guys, maybe usable as House banks on RVs, but boats IMO require a higher level of safety.

Now if your boat's big enough to carry a Prius as a complete unit, very useful self-contained genny+bank, plus heating/aircon in a pinch.

I want a boat that can carry a Prius as its backup battery bank!
__________________
Keith
koliver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 11:08 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,800
They probably require different charging profile than typical wet cells
bayview is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 12:23 PM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: CT
Country: US
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post

I want a boat that can carry a Prius as its backup battery bank!
I'd be happy with a land-based setup that could.

Been designing a cargo trailer type conversion the Prius could just roll up into.

Trailer chassis works for a boat too.

Challenge is the width to get it inside a conex, is too tight for anything but a "deckover" ramp, rather than the Prius fitting on the floor between the inside of the wheel wells.

Makes for a pretty steep ramp, might have to go for an elevator lift ramp.

https://youtu.be/KEBOuZtTHes
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 02:01 PM   #9
Scraping Paint
 
City: CT
Country: US
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
They probably require different charging profile than typical wet cells
No probably about it.

Just like AGM and GEL, each batt chemistry has its requirements.

Problem with a big LFP bank is that a few pretty common scenarios will kill it dead, zero ROI on that investment.

So yes you need to know what you're doing, and a pretty large proportion of the huge up-front cost is protective infrastructure in addition to the cells themselves.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:26 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
City: Sausalito
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Spirit
Vessel Model: Lien hwa
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 36
Thank you for all the info , fortunately I can get the battery’s from any type of car from Tesla’s to smart cars for zero $, if you look into used battery’s out of damage cars you can buy them really cheap and they are like new,my thoughts were they wouldn’t pass survey and if they catch fire there isn’t any way to extinguishe the fire until the batteries are gone, if something happens your insurance company won’t pay the claim,it seems the up side is you can put in twice the power in half the space ,they are light and easy to change out
Mattie69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 06:53 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,749
"I can get the battery’s from any type of car from Tesla’s to smart cars for zero $"

Eventually there will be a rebuilding industry to refresh these , should they keep being used in cars.

Today its home brew to open the case and swap out the bad cells for other used ones and keep the batt.

For a trawler weight is hardly an issue, although even in a metal boat a fire could ruin the day.

Perhaps a battery box for the house batts on deck that could easily be helped overboard might work.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:59 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
City: Washington
Country: US
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"............ Perhaps a battery box for the house batts on deck that could easily be helped overboard might work.
But what if you're not on board at the time of a fire? And what about the cables? You would need some sort of breakaway device on both of them.

I'm not ready to start replacing my AGMs with exotic batteries from junked cars quite yet.
aboatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 07:59 PM   #13
Scraping Paint
 
City: CT
Country: US
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 963
Get one more good quality conventional bank for production use,

study hard make friends with some EV hobbyist-engineer types, keep up with the reverse-engineering projects, buy packs to experiments with **on land**

and when the time comes to replace that last bank, you **might** know enough to make an informed decision.
john61ct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 09:08 PM   #14
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
To paraphrase Lou "Why"? Between the rather extreme expense and the fact that normal charging devices will not work with them... The only good reason I can think of is if there was some situation where ONLY that kind of battery would do...
LiFePO4 batteries are recharged using exactly the same equipment as Pb batteries.

They are more expensive by a long shot, at least in terms of up front cost. They are cheaper over their lifespan if you use battery power a lot. Additionally, they maintain high voltage throughout their capacity, which is easier on equipment, plus they recharge in a fraction of the time of typical chemistry which reduces wear and tear on the genset. So, with respect, there may be reasons one might want this chemistry other than special circumstances.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 06:46 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,749
Watch a WWII movie and see how depth charges were tossed overboard, for a concept for LI batt fires.

Of course in a marina or big raft up or small harbor the automatic portion of the system might need to be disabled.

Weather fuel cells or simple fly wheels will replace this batt tech is still in the works.

My vote would be for flywheels as energy storage could be combined with boat stabilization.
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×