Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-05-2017, 08:52 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
schrater's Avatar
 
City: Vancouver, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Matilda
Vessel Model: Ponderosa (CHB) 35' Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 92
Backing into slip

Does anyone with a single engine and no thrusters back into your slip? Although I've read that this method can be preferable for combating current and wind, I have been unable to develop any steerage in reverse. I've heard a lot of people recommend "goosing" the throttle, but I suspect they're all working with twins.
__________________
Advertisement

schrater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 08:55 AM   #2
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: AICW
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,395
I can, but I rarely do.

My boat loads from the side decks so backing in with a dingy hanging is sort of counter productive.

Goosing the thottle on a single with the wheel hard over kicks the stern sround and if going slow, thevrudder isnt affecting direction too much. But the instantaneous thrust will.

Unless you come and go on the same tidal current direction, I see no benefit to backing in unless you want to, not because it makes docking easier.
__________________

psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 08:57 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,869
Sure, watch the Utube lobster boat contests. It's a race to back up into slip!
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 09:11 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
City: Tampa, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 423
Used to with a sailboat, all the time. Took a while to become comfortable enough with controlling the boat, though, before I started doing it regularly.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 09:44 AM   #5
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,697
SHORT bursts of throttle! Did I say short?
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:00 AM   #6
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Used to with a sailboat, all the time. Took a while to become comfortable enough with controlling the boat, though, before I started doing it regularly.


MUCH easier with a sailboat.
- A sailboat has a rudder that actually works in at "ghosting" speeds, in forward or reverse
- A sailboat with a fin keel will pivot around its keel instead of "drift"
- A sailboat typically has much less "sail" area than a large cruiser.

To the OP, every boat is different. Typically, the rudders on a power cruiser are small and ineffective at slow speeds, particularly in reverse. As psneed points out (he has years more operational experience than I ever will) pulsing the engine can do a couple of things. The first effect is it will tend to kick the stern in the direction of the prop walk, typically to port in reverse, starboard in forward. In my boat, I get more pronounced prop walk in reverse. The second thing it does is to increase flow over the rudder, making it effective for the length of the power pulse. On my boat, this is much more effective when the pulse is in forward.

If you can spin your rudder fast enough, you can use this to move your stern to port or starboard as you back in. Going slowly, rudder hard to port, pulsing the power will mover your stern to port. Rudder hard to starboard, a power pulse will move your stern to starboard.

I wish my boat had a jog lever, it would make this much easier.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:18 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
schrater's Avatar
 
City: Vancouver, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Matilda
Vessel Model: Ponderosa (CHB) 35' Sundeck
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 92
Agree, sailboats (and lobster boats) are very different animals compared with a big disp trawler.

In placid conditions (like a calm lake) I agree that prop walk can be your friend, but I find that it is no match against a 3kt current or 8kt winds.
schrater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:19 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
City: RIchmond
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 129
Stern in is the only way I've ever docked a boat and the majority of our marina neighbors do it as well...power and sail.
Been a while, but I seem to remember my Catalina 30 backing in without much prop walk. My Catalina 34 is a different story. It has a strong prop walk to port. I use it to my advantage. When I'm backing in, I keep my wheel turned hard to port. If I need to get my stern more to starboard, I goose the engine forward and push the stern to starboard and use that momentum when I hit reverse again.
Chuck34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:23 AM   #9
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by schrater View Post
In placid conditions (like a calm lake) I agree that prop walk can be your friend, but I find that it is no match against a 3kt current or 8kt winds.

I agree. Knowing how to take advantage of of the prop walk and how to use power pulses is helpful, but it can only go so far.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:28 AM   #10
Guru
 
Sealife's Avatar
 
City: In transit
Country: From USA
Vessel Name: Sea life
Vessel Model: Krogen 42 #61
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 525
I do it everytime. If the finger pier isn't full length, our bow is too high to get off of, and sometimes the electrical connection is too far otherwise. It just takes practice. Lots of practice. Our last boat was a 1982 34' Mainship, so same single no thruster set up.
__________________
Scott

www.caribbeansealife.com
Sealife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 10:44 AM   #11
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by schrater View Post
Does anyone with a single engine and no thrusters back into your slip?

That was the only way we ever docked, when we had the Mainship III.

Helped to enter a fairway so we were approaching the target slip to port, since that was the best way to work prop walk on that boat.

But we got into slips on our starboard side several times, too.

Didn't think of it as any big deal. Got easier -- especially at destination marinas/slips -- as crew got the hang of tending a spring line, too...

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 11:18 AM   #12
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,288
Some boats are harder to back into a slip but most with some forethought planning and patience can do it. Once a skipper gets the hang of it it can become relatively easy even in boats that don't back well. Bow thrusters are very helpful but it is best when they are only used for minor adjustments rather than the main stearing device as is often the case. When approaching a slip many considerations come into play. Which way does your prop kick your stern in reverse-wind direction and strength-current if any-the arc of the turn and the boats natural side drift while in a turning arc. I will often go past the slip and turn the boat around to approach from the favored side. With a single engine boat I do not try to line up straight with the slip before backing I take the prop walk wind and current into account and often swing the boat in a predicted curve into the slip. Every docking can be a little or a lot different the tick is to get the experience and feel for it to make the necessary adjustments. The more you do it the easier it becomes. Yesterday at Elliott Bay marina a 38-40 ft sail boat hit three boats hard sending one with its bow ko-ing the dock box bow on dock. I don't know all the details but evidently the boat was trying to dock or turn in the fairway. what ever the situation the prime rule of go slow was broken. Goosing the throttle has to be done in a way that keeps speed down and boat under control best practiced away from other boats.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 11:34 AM   #13
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,316
The term is "Back and Fill". Do it with my charter boat, 35' single screw no thruster. Do it with my trawler, 45' single screw and bow thruster. You need a big rudder for best effect. Much prefer to back in as there is a less obstructed view. The prop walk pulls the boat's stern to port or starboard depending on whether a left or right hand propeller. Having the rudder hard over and shifting to forward, kicks the stern back to where you want it. It's rare for me to use the thruster when stern in docking. As with any boating maneuver, nothing replaces practicing the technique with your own boat.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 12:07 PM   #14
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,787
I've done stern in for awhile w my Willard.
I like it since I'm in covered moorage and much less light gets aft so I feel my anti-fowling bottom paint lasts longer. And cleaning the bow is much easier than the stern.
When it's windy it gets tricky and speed helps a lot to a point. When she's lined up do it now and quickly before current and/or wind moves your boat sideways so you may need to completely abort and reposition the boat.
One should practice maneuvers. Notice that the boat will do the same thing every move you make. Rudder dead ahead, boat stopped X amount of throttle and the boat will do the same thing every time. Notice when you back from a standstill the same thing happens. Won't be the same for all boats. My boat backs to stbd innitially but very soon she goes almost straight back. So backing out of a slip I push the stern out about a foot as I get aboard. Then I back smartly (1500 to 1800rpm) w the rudder dead ahead. She pulls to stbd a bit so the boat soon becomes straight as it was before I pushed it out. My boat is easier to back out that go bow out.
Practice many maneuvers and make observations .. record them if it helps.

It's not so much you controling the boat but you knowing what the boat does when you do x,y or z. If you know what's going to happen you can do any maneuver w confidence.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 12:38 PM   #15
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 11,277
Berths here are "pointed," so the designer's intent was probably to strengthen the fingers' connection and for the bow to enter first. Most boats do but some like to back in for whatever reason. Bow-in for me is against the prevailing wind. Find the mechanics of backing out easier than the reverse.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 03:36 PM   #16
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,787
In your case Mark the piling I see at the end of the finger should hold the finger in place.
HaHa

My round butt boat fits in rather well backwards. Haven't tried backing in w a strong wind though. The bow sticking up and fwd will likely catch the wind and on most boats the bow responds to wind much more so than the stern. Bows swinging downwind is more than common. That and the stern has the rudder and hence considerable control. It's easy to poke the bow in. Then one can position the stern w the rudder and your "home free" w a bit of fwd way. So running in bow first should be the preferred act.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 04:14 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Islanddreamer's Avatar
 
City: Kingsville, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Harmony
Vessel Model: Pacemaker 1990 37' Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 285
No wind and no current stern in is OK. I never have that where I dock. We're bow in, and the view off the stern is better anyway..
__________________
Any day aboard is a good day.
Islanddreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 04:18 PM   #18
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,837
It took some practice for me to work out how to back into the slip. Now I find it is just as easy as going bow in. I don't back in often, as I prefer a more private cockpit away from the dock, but if the wind is blowing >20 kts on my nose pulling into the dock, I find it is easier to back in.

I find that if I spend a minute or two prior to pulling into the berth working out how the wind or current effects the boat at the approach angle I am planning, docking will work out much more smoothly.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 04:55 PM   #19
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar
 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,295
As has been pointed out, you need to bump into forward to swing the stern the way you want it to go. With the rudder hard over to push the stern the way you want it, you'll be surprised at how little forward motion you'll pick up.

The only time I had any trouble was when a friend on the dock got hold of one of my stern lines before I managed to swing the bow from side to side so my wife could get the bow lines on.

Take your time. Don't be afraid to pull out and make another attempt. Nobody who counts will think less of you. The only ones who count are the ones who have done it.
__________________
Parks Masterson
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2017, 06:27 PM   #20
Guru
 
Sealife's Avatar
 
City: In transit
Country: From USA
Vessel Name: Sea life
Vessel Model: Krogen 42 #61
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 525
I learned early. What the boat will do and what the boat won't do. No matter how hard you want it, it won't happen. Work with what it will do. Abort and start over completely otherwise.
__________________

__________________
Scott

www.caribbeansealife.com
Sealife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012