Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2015, 12:24 PM   #1
Member
 
City: The Villages
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 20
Automatic Identification Systems

I've been looking at AIS systems and would like to get feed back on the pros and cons of the system. And which ones work the best.
__________________
Advertisement

GreenSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 12:32 PM   #2
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
I can't really see any cons of AIS.

We have a Vesper Marine XB8000 which is chocked full of features. It has wifi thta can join or create its own network so you cna check the status of of it and also use the AIS display. It also bridges Nmea data to some programs too. Another feature is that it has a usb connection so you can bridge data from N2k to usb for use in programs like Open CPN or Coastal Explorer.

If i were doing it again i'd go for a Class A, but our next boat will have it. I just like to be able to list where I'm heading. Also I've heard some ships filter class b targets.
__________________

__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 12:34 PM   #3
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
All the AIS class b systems work basically the same. They transmit your location information out, and receive other ships locations.

The part in my opinion that makes them useful is the ability to graphically display that information on your chart plotter or nav computer.

My system made by Furuno uses ethernet to communicate with my chart plotter, but I'm pretty sure it's propritary to Furuno for that function.

You need to start kinda backwards. Choose how you are going to display the ais data, then get an ais system that's compatible, which I would think most are since if memory serves correctly you can use a NMEA 0183 signal for the ais link to your chart plotter.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 01:09 PM   #4
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Its great to know where the big ones are and where they are going particularly in reduced visibility night and fog. Its also comforting to know that they have you on there plotter with course and speed info. Also by knowing the name of the boat direct radio communication is easier and more accurate.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 01:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Boydski's Avatar
 
City: Olympia, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sea Eagle
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
Also I've heard some ships filter class b targets.
Hi Oliver,

I've heard the same rumors, but my experiences lead me to believe otherwise. I spent a lot of weekends this summer running into and out of Seattle, which is extremely busy with both commercial and recreational traffic.

I have observed on several occasions when I've been involved with complicated crossing situations that large commercial traffic has altered their course based on my AIS class B transmissions (they could not see me via Radar or visually at the time). One particular situation comes to mind that involved 5 vessels having to give way slightly and a tug with tow that was the stand on vessel for the other five. All six vessels did what they were supposed to like a well choreographed dance. It was impressive to watch.

To the OP, I have a Simrad AIS transceiver, which works well for me. It outputs NMEA 0183 and 2000, so the vessel data shows up on the Navigation PC's, the Furuno gear and the Simrad Chartplotters.

Of course, YMMV,
__________________
Scott (Boydski) Boyd
Yes Please, Grand Banks Eastbay
Sea Eagle, Nordhavn 47 (sold)
Boydski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 02:02 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Satsuma FL
Country: United States
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
We have a Vesper Marine XB8000 which is chocked full of features. It has wifi thta can join or create its own network so you cna check the status of of it and also use the AIS display. It also bridges Nmea data to some programs too. Another feature is that it has a usb connection so you can bridge data from N2k to usb for use in programs like Open CPN or Coastal Explorer.
The Vesper XB-8000 looks like an interesting device with its built is WiFi. Now, if one installs a Garmin 7612 MFD with built in WiFi, not sure I see the need for the AIS black box to have WiFi. Am I missing something?
Donsan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 02:34 PM   #7
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Well you could always connect the AIS to the Garmins network.

Or Just turn the AIS's network off then..
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 03:02 PM   #8
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,197
I'll make my plea for a Class A or Class B transceiver, NOT just a receiver. AIS is only as good as the number of boats that are transmitting and beign displayed. By sending and receiving, you are contributing to making the system better. If all you have is a receiver, then in my opinion you are taking without giving back in return.

As for Class A vs Class B, I've always been a staunch advocate of Class B. But in the past 6 months I discovered that Pugent Sound and Seattle VTS does not receive Class B AIS, only Class A. That doesn't mean the other ships aren't seeing you, but VTS is not. On a number of occasions I have heard VTS tell a boat that a particular route is clear when there are in fact Class B boats making their presence known in the area of interest. As a result I just recently upgraded to Class A. The cost was about $2000 compared to around $600 for class B, so not an insignificant difference.

But I still think that in 99% of situations, Class B is just fine and the extra cost of Class A isn't justified.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Inspiration
Vessel Model: 420DB
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 198
I also invested in Vesper XB-8000 and happy with performance.
Alex F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 04:15 PM   #10
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
Hi Oliver,

I've heard the same rumors, but my experiences lead me to believe otherwise. I spent a lot of weekends this summer running into and out of Seattle, which is extremely busy with both commercial and recreational traffic.

I have observed on several occasions when I've been involved with complicated crossing situations that large commercial traffic has altered their course based on my AIS class B transmissions (they could not see me via Radar or visually at the time). One particular situation comes to mind that involved 5 vessels having to give way slightly and a tug with tow that was the stand on vessel for the other five. All six vessels did what they were supposed to like a well choreographed dance. It was impressive to watch.

To the OP, I have a Simrad AIS transceiver, which works well for me. It outputs NMEA 0183 and 2000, so the vessel data shows up on the Navigation PC's, the Furuno gear and the Simrad Chartplotters.

Of course, YMMV,
Scott, not going to argue with you as your right for most cases but not all, but if i were doing it again i would go class a. Just for the sake of being able to put where im going and i believe it has more powerful TX.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 08:06 PM   #11
Guru
 
windmill29130's Avatar
 
City: Little River SC
Vessel Name: JAZ
Vessel Model: Ta Chaio/CT35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I'll make my plea for a Class A or Class B transceiver, NOT just a receiver. AIS is only as good as the number of boats that are transmitting and beign displayed. By sending and receiving, you are contributing to making the system better. If all you have is a receiver, then in my opinion you are taking without giving back in return.
Not everybody can afford an AIS transmitter, but at least receiving you can see what is going on around you and radio the boat to communicate with them. Something most cannot do. So taking I think not.
__________________
Tracy & Susie Hellman 1985 Ta Chiao CT 35
Twin Lehman Super 90's Westerbeke 4.4kw
Lightkeepers Marina -Little River, SC
windmill29130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 08:47 PM   #12
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill29130 View Post
Not everybody can afford an AIS transmitter, but at least receiving you can see what is going on around you and radio the boat to communicate with them. Something most cannot do. So taking I think not.
You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 09:00 PM   #13
Guru
 
windmill29130's Avatar
 
City: Little River SC
Vessel Name: JAZ
Vessel Model: Ta Chaio/CT35
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.
Most of these boats are large commercial ships, yes they can afford it and they are required to have it. If you choose to spend the money on it good for you. I'm sure there are items on my boat that I feel I need and you don't have on yours and vice versa, but I don't chastise you for not having them. We all have to balance our budgets versus safety and make decisions based on what fits us. According to you, me and those like me are taking, in turn there are more out there not giving or taking, that makes me at least halfway there.
__________________
Tracy & Susie Hellman 1985 Ta Chiao CT 35
Twin Lehman Super 90's Westerbeke 4.4kw
Lightkeepers Marina -Little River, SC
windmill29130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 09:06 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
City: SOMERS POINT, NJ
Vessel Name: SOJOURN
Vessel Model: SWIFT TRAWLER 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 63
I have a Ray unit - overlays on MFD and or my i70 stand alone instrument display.

I look at AIS as a "Belts and suspenders" tool - just one more "tool" to heighten your situational awarness.

I would not own a boat without one - assuming that you cruise and are not just a bay watcher.
SOJOURN4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 09:40 PM   #15
Guru
 
No Mast's Avatar
 
City: Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Country: US
Vessel Name: Moana Huaka'i
Vessel Model: Selene 53
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 816
Altruistic motives of giving back aside, I think there is simply a greater safety in other vessels ALSO seeing you and your track info. That to me makes it worth the investment. it's just a better situation when both parties have access to the same data.

Unfortunately our trawler did not come with AIS. we have a standalone USB unit which has very limited receive only range. When we get to electronics upgrade, installing a transceiver is a settled question.
No Mast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2015, 09:44 PM   #16
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
You can only see them because they coughed up the $$ for a transceiver. So you are benefiting from his investment, but you have done nothing to return the favor. You benefit from the system only because others have invested the money to contribute via a transceiver. Yet you don't make the same contribution to benefit them. I think that's taking without giving.

Awhile ago their was guy that was mad that some vessels over a certain length needed AIS because he didn't wanted the government tracking his every move. I got a good kick out of that.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 12:10 AM   #17
Guru
 
drb1025's Avatar
 
City: Bellevue, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Fiddler
Vessel Model: DeFever 46
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 501
I coughed up the $$ for a Si-tex receiver to use with my PC nav software and large monitor. The Furuno model (I have Furuno VX2 radar, plotter, sounder) was over twice as much $$ and it wouldn't talk to my nav software. I use it primarily to see and avoid commercial traffic. Maybe that's selfish of me, but I suspect most boats, like me, have radar to see me and others and if not, they probably don't have AIS either. Maybe I'll upgrade to a transceiver when I eventually upgrade my electronics, but I'm happy with receiving now.
drb1025 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2015, 03:14 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Nsail's Avatar
 
City: Benicia CA
Country: USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill29130 View Post
Most of these boats are large commercial ships, yes they can afford it and they are required to have it.

Regarding class A, you are correct. However, for recreational boats, most have class B, which are much less expensive. In my opinion if someone is going to invest in in an AIS, might as well spend a little more (typically 300.00) and get the transceiver. Great tool and worth it to me.
Nsail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 11:04 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
City: Edmonds
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 176
I don't agree that having an AIS receiver somehow takes without giving. The more recreational boats transmitting, the more crowded a screen gets. I think having a receiver makes our boats more safe, as we can see and avoid the big boys. I have read that commercial ships don't like the clutter of us small fry.

I am going to get a Class B unit that transmits as well as receives, as I like that extra bit of safety.

Class A transmits with more power and is visible at about 4 times the range. If I were ocean-going I would pop for Class A. For my use, cruising the Puget Sound, a class B unit will be just fine.
Robster_in_edmonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2015, 11:44 AM   #20
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster_in_edmonds View Post
The more recreational boats transmitting, the more crowded a screen gets.
This is what I don't get.

If you have lots of radar returns, do you blank out some of them?

If you visually see a crowd of boats, do you ignore some of them?

I just don't get this whole argument about "my screen is too cluttered". If there are lots of targets out there, I want to know, not put blinders on. If you need to focus in, change your viewing range. Or turn off boats that aren't moving or that are beyond some range. Those seem like reasonable filters.

Anyway, sorry if I'm offending with all this. I realize it's everyone's choice what they want to do, and I'm not saying everyone needs to have AIS. I'm just trying to encourage people who want to take advantage of the system and what it has to offer, to also help populate it with useful data by transmitting their own boat's movements. It's really a classic example of crowd-sourcing. Just imagine how useful (not) Active Captain would be if we all just read the reviews, but never posted any. It gets better and better precisely because we all contribute to it. Come to think of it, TrawlerForum is another good example....
__________________

__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012