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Old 02-15-2016, 11:23 AM   #21
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Panacea,
I said I'd call it like I see it so no your boat is not a trawler.
That said I'm calling her a planing hull w yacht like superstructure and topsides. Her hull bottom aft is perfectly straight as it appears in the pic. Her transom is raked fwd like a speed boat .. not a sea boat. If she's a basic good design and not overloaded she should be capable of motoring gracefully in some quite nasty seas but not really big ones. A beautiful boat but a yacht or large cruiser in my book. But my comments are just that .. or and 100% opinion.

Dave,
TAD said "A "Trawler Yacht" is whatever you want it to be..."
Well he's sounding a little evasive to me. But there is tons of truth in what he says (as always) but I'm thinking he really dosn't want to get into it. And in his position I have respect for that.

Hawgwash,
I'm agreeing w Dave here but I really don't know. There are so many boats called a Monk design it's hard to believe they designed all of them. I've wondered too but if I had to bet I'd go w Dave.

McGillicuddy,
The Cheoy Lee boats are more like the great yachts of the 50's called (sadly) "houseboats". Big flush deck yachts w lots of room below. The "houseboats" of the twenties had FD hulls (even fantail sterns) and some were magnificent yachts. The Choey Lee boats are one of the other large boats I'm not very (hardly at all) familiar w but if the CL has a stern that is not straight aft (I should say parallel w the WL) then maybe so. Gotta say here I'm not really sure. However if I was familiar w the CL I'd probably say yes .. a trawler. The Mainship, Californian and O Alexander are in the dono zone too. I single them out because they are straight planing hulls. The Californian looks somewhat like a trawler and employs basically a common trawler engine so they are probably trawlers. Many boats are in this middle ground like is she a blond or is she a brunette?
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:28 AM   #22
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Don't overthink this.

"Trawler" is (with the exception of real fishing boats) a marketing term.

It's designed to evoke a lifestyle of comfort at a slower pace. That's all.

It's become common enough that people have a general idea what you're talking about when you use it. Like most marketing terms, it doesn't really have a hard-and-fast definition.

I keep using it, not because I'm trying to impress anyone with my boat's commercial fishing capabilities, but because people understand the term well enough to distinguish my boat from, say, a sailboat or an express cruiser.

If they really want to know more details, they'll ask. Most people don't.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:31 AM   #23
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Why ?

Why not? Afraid to get caught out in the fog? The issue cries out for clarification. It is nice when words have meaning even if the meaning in some cases is a vague term used to help sell boats. Here on this forum we talk about Trawlers so what are we talking about? A hippopotamus because we all know what that is? Well a hippopotamus can be defined. So if we all know what a trawler is when we see it, define it. Dose the definition include you have to own one or know what it is to identify one but you cant define it with words?
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:52 AM   #24
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Panacea,
I said I'd call it like I see it so no your boat is not a trawler.
A beautiful boat but a yacht or large cruiser in my book. But my comments are just that .. or and 100% opinion.
I can see where you're coming from. Another big difference between trawlers and yachts is the people that own them. The yachties have their nose in the air and are less fun to be around. Trawlies are laid back have more fun.

So... just to stir the pot, what about the old Hatteras LRCs? Not a trawler... just a slow heavy yacht? The bottoms are somewhere between semi displacement and planing. Is it the softer chines that make it a trawler? Ever see the chines on a steel/aluminum displacement hull? They are typically hard (see attached pic). Or are aesthetics alone what define a trawler (see planing Mainship trawler pic)?

I agree with the word "trawler" being marketing jargon. Some people get it mixed up with a "blue water passage making power boat". In reality, trawlering is a frame of mind.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dhmeissner
I'm pretty sure the Monk 36 design was Edwin Monk Jr.
In the 70s & 80s when the stampede was away from gas and sail, into slow fuel sipping boats, any family in Taiwan who could stick glass mat in resin, lived on and built "trawlers" which then flooded the NA market.

The 36 Monk was one of them.

Having been an Ed Monk fan forever, I remember at the time having some contempt for this new Taiwan creation because I believed it was being put forward as an Ed Monk design. As I said, I think I even recall Ed Jr. trying to stop the use of the Monk name.

I could be wrong but this is somewhat supported by Nova Boat Builders using the cleaver language "Designed by a legendary naval architect."
http://www.novatrawler.com/36monk.html

Boat US also described it as the "Namesake of late naval architect Edwin Monk Sr."
http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/power/monk36.asp

My distaste for the pretendiness has tempered due to the somewhat decent track record of the post Taiwan models and what could be appealing to me, if it turned out to be a proven good choice, is the lack of import duty into Canada.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:05 PM   #26
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Thanks for the links, Hogwash. And you know, now that I think about it you're probably right, if the Monk 36 was indeed penned by either of the NA's they would have said so. Much like the Roughwater boats that were designed by them, first by Sr. and later Jr. And as we all know Ed Monk Jr. continued on with Ocean Alexander as well as many other projects.

Heritage - Ocean Alexander

To their credit, none of the OA boats are labeled trawlers.

But then I did find this which adds to the confusion:
Monk 36 | Soundings Online
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:08 PM   #27
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Panacea,
Points well taken.

If the Hatteras LRC are not planing and clearly SD hulls I'd throw them into the trawler ring. The Hatteras LRC are another boat I'm not very familiar with. I recognize them of course but know little about them. Mostly what I see and read here on TF. I'm probably not the person to be making these calls but the elements are the same big or small boat and over the years here no one has made much or any calls. Don't want to offend I suppose ... but I'm not intending on saying anything nasty or derogatory about a boat ( and certainly not a person).

Soft chines (SC) don't make a trawler either commercial or pleasure. SC don't make a SD hull either. Most lobster boats are planing hulls SC or not. If you can put 400hp in a lobster boat and get 35 knots it's clearly not a SD hull. SC are an element of slow or faster but not SD or planing.

The term "trawler" re rec boats wasn't a marketing term until about 25 years ago. It was just a term or name the boaters called a boat to better identify it. Commercial folks noticed in time and thought .. "hey these people like "trawler" so lets use it". I don't think commercial folks coined it or started using it. I think it evolved from boaters. Just my opinion. But as a result of the commercial element all manner of boats not even close to trawler have been called that .. mostly to sell boats.

And re your planing Mainship pic that's why I had Mainship in the questionable category.

Dave,
The Monk is in the questionable category also. I had the IG in the trawler cat but there is little difference between them. Perhaps the Monk 36 could be in the trawler cat even though they have (I'm quite sure a planing hull form sans the keel) but the keel is there. And unlike the lobsterboats I've never seen one planing. Perhaps too heavy and that is a big trawler characteristic. OK lets move the Monk 36 into the trawler cat.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dhmeissner
But then I did find this which adds to the confusion:
Monk 36 | Soundings Online
Indeed it does. Though I have not researched them much, I believe that is the first direct connection to Ed Monk I have ever seen.

Thanks for the link; time for some digging.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:28 PM   #29
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I have a range of about 1,300 nm and cruise at 9 knots with a semi-displacement hull, full keel, protected running gear, and weigh about 100,000lbs. Basically, I meet all the requirements of the original post, but my boat doesn't look like an old fishing boat and have interior decor of a seafood restaurant. Is my boat still a trawler?

She is to me!
Of course she is a trawler however the next owner may call her a motor yacht and he too would be correct. Call her what ever makes you happy but I don't see anything "protected" about that running gear.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:32 PM   #30
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The KK 42 is a trawler. Nobody EVER mistakes it for anything else. They NEVER call it anything else. Even non boaty people call it a trawler. That is your bar, and its pretty high.
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:27 PM   #31
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The KK 42 is a trawler. Nobody EVER mistakes it for anything else. They NEVER call it anything else. Even non boaty people call it a trawler. That is your bar, and its pretty high.

LOL! Except for professional Mariners. If I were on the bridge of a ship and needed to hail you for any reason, after noting the lack of fishing gear and displaying no fishing day shape (or lights at night) I would hail you as "motor yacht _________(name from AIS)" The pros are only interested in the category of vessel you are within the scope of the International Rules for Prevention of Collision at Sea and not what an ad man claims your vessel to be in a marketing brochure. A fishing vessel tending its nets generally has some privileges over power vessels under way and therefore must be specifically identified prior to making decisions on who has right of way.

And also to clear up some confusion I see on this site, properly, "Trollers" are fishing vessels that are trailing lines astern. Trawlers are fishing vessels trailing nets astern or tending drift nets.
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:55 PM   #32
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Gilli,
Good about the nets and troll gear.

Been think'in ...
Since this trawler or not thing is an extremely wide grey zone .. Not at all black and white. So why try to make it black and white?

The answer to this question is a list of boats aranged from the most trawler-like to the least. Assuming there is one not a trawler. The most and the least w all the grey in-between. It would be so difficult I wouldn't attempt it. What I listed today I'd be rearranging tomorrow. But that would do it if it could be done.

And eyeschulman since you started this perhaps you could make a new list of trawler-like features and their relative importance. Like a full keel and a number 1-5 to weigh it's importance. Already I think you will see the futility of it. A list of those that aren't is fairly easy till ya get to those fringies.

I did'nt get any angry PM's over the post w the list. I rather enjoyed the PM's I did get actually. And I have noticed those that ask almost always don't have a trawler.

I still say the early name of Heavy Cruiser gets the big essence out of the bag ... weight. If it's too heavy to be anything else and it's not a fish boat, harbor tug ect that already has a name it's probably a trawler.

eyeschulman?
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:25 PM   #33
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Gilli,
Good about the nets and troll gear.

Been think'in ...
Since this trawler or not thing is an extremely wide grey zone .. Not at all black and white. So why try to make it black and white?

The answer to this question is a list of boats aranged from the most trawler-like to the least. Assuming there is one not a trawler. The most and the least w all the grey in-between. It would be so difficult I wouldn't attempt it. What I listed today I'd be rearranging tomorrow. But that would do it if it could be done.

And eyeschulman since you started this perhaps you could make a new list of trawler-like features and their relative importance. Like a full keel and a number 1-5 to weigh it's importance. Already I think you will see the futility of it. A list of those that aren't is fairly easy till ya get to those fringies.

I did'nt get any angry PM's over the post w the list. I rather enjoyed the PM's I did get actually. And I have noticed those that ask almost always don't have a trawler.

I still say the early name of Heavy Cruiser gets the big essence out of the bag ... weight. If it's too heavy to be anything else and it's not a fish boat, harbor tug ect that already has a name it's probably a trawler.

eyeschulman?
Eric I like the heavy cruiser since most light and ultra light boats seem well off the scale. Also like The deep keel enough to protect the running gear and that would exclude IPS powered boats. I also agree that if somebody put a set of trawl nets on a KK 42 or your boat I would have no trouble thinking of it as a trawler therefore remove the nets and I am still ok with it. Put a set of trawl nets on my boat and its a trawler remove the nets and no way could I think of it as a trawler.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by eyschulman
...put a set of trawl nets on a KK 42 or your boat I would have no trouble thinking of it as a trawler...Put a set of trawl nets on my boat and its a trawler
And just how would you and a KK42 hoist a couple tons of fish and where would you put them?

Stick a ball cap on a blind man, he ain't no catcher.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:08 PM   #35
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A KK42 could haul a "couple ton" of fish. Your boat probly cannot.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:02 PM   #36
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All the 'professional' vessels have always hailed or referred to me as 'pleasure vessel". Maybe it's a down South thing. Interestingly, they don't include sail boats as pleasure vessels but say 'sail boat'.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:42 PM   #37
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Interestingly, they don't include sail boats as pleasure vessels but say 'sail boat'.
Have you ever had a sailboat float slowly by and catch yourself saying, "That's a good looking boat!"

Me neither.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:53 PM   #38
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Have you ever had a sailboat float slowly by and catch yourself saying, "That's a good looking boat!"

Me neither.
Blasphemy!

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Old 02-16-2016, 12:14 AM   #39
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I think once this gets buttoned up, we should define what Fine Art is (and no Art, I'm not taking about you, although you are most definately a very fine fella)
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:14 AM   #40
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I'll stick my neck out on this one.

Californian, OA, Rangers, and many Mainships are at least slightly questionable. They all have a planing hull and are light enough to plane. Many will disagree w me and I usually think of the Californian and Manships as trawlers but the case for them is weak.

Carver, Sea Ray,Tollycraft, and Owens are not.

The following are.
NT, GB, AT, DeFever, Cherubini, Selene, Marine Trader, Most KK, Sundowner, North Pacific, CHB, Maple Bay, Willard, Monk, Pilgrim, Senator, Coot Fu Hwa, Island Gypsy, Marben and the Chantyman.

Some of these brands are not all trawlers. I speak of the ones we see here.
"Carver, Sea Ray, Tollycraft, and Owens are not". - Thank God!!

BTW: Ed Monk Sr. and then Ed Monk Jr. were the primary Marine Architects for Tollycraft "Pleasure Cruisers"!
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