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Old 08-24-2016, 07:03 PM   #21
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A little bit early yet, but definitely something to keep an eye on. The European Model seems to be out there pretty much by itself so far, sending the storm over into the Gulf, but that model has a really good track record. If it does get into the Gulf, then probably it is going to be Katie bar the door, since the Gulf waters are so warm right now. These things feed off of heat, as everyone knows. It is the fuel which powers the engine.
The European model has definitely had the better record on large hurricanes. Certainly on Sandy and even on Andrew. However, it's been on it's on for more recent smaller storms and missed the target. I look at the charts with all the models so I can get completely advised and confused. The ensemble of models for 99 are still quite diverse.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:11 PM   #22
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The European model has definitely had the better record on large hurricanes. Certainly on Sandy and even on Andrew. However, it's been on it's on for more recent smaller storms and missed the target. I look at the charts with all the models so I can get completely advised and confused. The ensemble of models for 99 are still quite diverse.
Well, they are doing low-data Monte Carlo modeling right now, because the real data is still kind of sparse. The data inflow will begin to increase now, though, and I suspect that it will begin to favor the European model more. But hey, what do I know? Going to run down to the marina tomorrow, though, and make sure that all of the i's are dotted and that all of the t's are crossed.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:33 PM   #23
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Yep, definitely keeping an eye on it. I've been waiting for this to get a haul out , bottom job, and hull polish. I will call my haul out yard tomorrow. That's why I have a captain and a maintenance guy on standby.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:24 PM   #24
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We're on a Gulf side Florida barrier island home and have our boat behind our residence. The post height here will permit maybe a 5 ft. surge. I'm at the very end of a canal with a large group of mangroves. If it gets bad and we have to evacuate, I might throw my storm anchor in there and tie to some trees.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:52 PM   #25
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I'm surprised reading some of this. Seems like most of you take hurricane steps like hauling your boat or heading up river for even possible tropical storms. Is it because you don't feel it's safe in your regular slip or your insurance requires it or the marina requires it?
Many insurance companies require a hurricane plan. Along the northern gulf coast at least, I know of no marina that will allow boats to stay tied up in a named storm. Some people will haul as they pay for a hurricane privilege. This means the boat yard shuts down to any normal business and only allow boats lifted into the yard on the plan. This takes place 48 to 72 hours before landfall.

The gulf is shaped like a lipped soup bowl. Hell of a place to push a lot of water inland during a storm due to the shallow lip close to shore.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:32 PM   #26
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Many insurance companies require a hurricane plan. Along the northern gulf coast at least, I know of no marina that will allow boats to stay tied up in a named storm. Some people will haul as they pay for a hurricane privilege. This means the boat yard shuts down to any normal business and only allow boats lifted into the yard on the plan. This takes place 48 to 72 hours before landfall.

The gulf is shaped like a lipped soup bowl. Hell of a place to push a lot of water inland during a storm due to the shallow lip close to shore.
They require a hurricane plan, but they don't require a specific plan nor that you commit to carrying it all out. We make it clear that our most likely action is to leave the right where they are, tied well and protected the best we can. We do list other things we might do but also with a disclaimer that we will never put anyone in jeopardy and that other things are likely to be higher priorities. They trust based on deductible than we're incentivized to do what we can. Where we are, there really isn't a practical plan you can commit too other than having the boat in one of the safer areas and marinas. Here, a marina can't force you to move. Most of the marinas are now built to take a tremendous amount of surge. There was one marina to make it through Katrina with minimal damage, but I forget which one and there was one in the Houston area to make it through storms about that time with little problem. Both were floating. I'll have to find them again on the dock builders' sites.

Do the marinas that haul in the gulf area have good anchoring systems for the boats? I've seen many that haul but are either too low themselves or have no good anchoring to protect from wind.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:37 PM   #27
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We're on a Gulf side Florida barrier island home and have our boat behind our residence. The post height here will permit maybe a 5 ft. surge. I'm at the very end of a canal with a large group of mangroves. If it gets bad and we have to evacuate, I might throw my storm anchor in there and tie to some trees.
Do you know the surge history for your canal? There is some data on the government's flood insurance and classification site and there may be other sites with some. To me, that is valuable information. Lake Pontchartrain vs. the ICW in Fort Lauderdale have very different patterns and it's amazing how many dock builders and marinas don't take their local area into consideration. Look at all the homes on the North side of Lake Pontchartrain that were built at a legal height but one that was a few feet less than it should have been, the land just not built up enough. 3 more feet would have been easy and eliminated a lot of damage.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:43 PM   #28
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The named storm force out of the marina is always in the lease contract. As for most marinas very few tie down. Some that have concert paved yards have pad eyes that allow some ability to tie the boat while on shore.

Since Katrina the amount of marinas is much less so there can be some competition for space. That's why many owners opt for going fairly far inland and tieing out.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:47 PM   #29
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Might mention that this evening the consensus has changed. NGFDL has routed more across the state of FL to the gulf. BAMM goes west of Key West and directly to the Gulf. Meanwhile NAM has it remaining east of the Bahamas.

So, that brings this question. Where do you go for your hurricane information?
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:12 AM   #30
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"That's why many owners opt for going fairly far inland and tieing out."

The boaters at our hurricane Hole usually get all set up when they arrive (May) , then depart for 5 or 6 months.

Other folks try to transit Before the bridges stop opening and simply stay aboard for a couple of days of heavy rain.

When almost 100 miles inland (atlantic) lots of the snot is out of even a rare F-5.
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Old 08-25-2016, 09:52 AM   #31
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When Sandy hit our yacht club in CT the boats that remained at our docks (floating) sustained little to no damage beyond a few ripped canvas bits. A couple of the boats that elected to be hauled at a nearby yard sustained extensive damage as boats were blown or floated off their jack stands.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:03 AM   #32
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Cap John - I guess that depends where on the northern Gulf Coast you'r located. NOLA to Mobile has built marinas to overcapacity, in my opinion. Not a week goes by that I'm not invited to consider a move to one or another of them. Problem - they kick you out when a storm enters the Gulf. I don't know the specific criteria.

I'm fortunate in that my marina on Lake Pontchartrain is (in my inexpert opinion) is probably one of the best hurricane holes between Mobile and Houston. (I'm sure that's subject to debate and specific storm characteristics. Nonetheless, my plan is to remove tophamper, install dedicated storm lines, do the other usual stuff, and see what happens.

I look at multiple Wx sources, but I rely on the NRL Tropical Cyclone Page. They seem to weather-guess better than most, at least for this patch.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:16 AM   #33
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I am at a floating dock on the Industrial canal in New Orleans. The USCG in their wisdom has a hurricane plan for the entire area that does not allow any boats to be afloat in the canal and have to move out prior to any named storm heading our way. My plan is to head across Lake Pontchartrain to the Tchefuncta River and anchor behind Brady Island while tied up to the shore.
The USCG plan to close the industrial canal is a result of barges that got loose on the canal during Katrina and topped over a levy and in to a subdivision. There was a claim(not proven in the end) that the errant barge had busted through the sea wall and caused the flooding.

It is frustrating because the USCofE has built huge walls and gate structures and can close off all entrances to the area essentially making the area a non tidal lake and therefore a prime hurricane hole. I would rather stay at my (floating) dock on the canal.


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Old 08-25-2016, 10:18 AM   #34
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When Sandy hit our yacht club in CT the boats that remained at our docks (floating) sustained little to no damage beyond a few ripped canvas bits. A couple of the boats that elected to be hauled at a nearby yard sustained extensive damage as boats were blown or floated off their jack stands.
Properly designed and built floating docks have frequently proven to survive hurricanes and protect boats well. Having the boat on land but not well anchored or not at adequate elevation is really just an exercise but not one that protects boats like owners are led to believe.

Most of the major dock construction the past few years in the Fort Lauderdale area has been Bellingham docks and they've been designed to sustain through surge and wind as it's a fact of life here that boats will remain at those docks through hurricanes.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:35 AM   #35
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"When Sandy hit our yacht club in CT the boats that remained at our docks (floating) sustained little to no damage beyond a few ripped canvas bits. A couple of the boats that elected to be hauled at a nearby yard sustained extensive damage as boats were blown or floated off their jack stands. "


I am glad that worked for you Howard but for many places close by it was the exact opposite due to storm surge and water flow. IN one spot on the Hudson they lost all the docks and the 25+ boats left tied up and many were never seen again.
The key is to know your area and options and pick the best one for you not what someone near yo might be doing.
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Old 08-25-2016, 10:48 AM   #36
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No absolutes....

But my experience from FL to NJ has shown me that if a yard isn't prepend properly for storms (most) then boats often do better in the water.

Without secure tie downs and an experiences crew...and erosion resistant storage areas....f the water is high enough to wreck floating docks, the devastation in the yard is often equal to or more severe than to the well tied boats.

Once up in the yard, blowing debris are usually a bigger threat than on the water.

The absolute best suggestion I think that can be made is to move the boat out of the dangerous semicircle, and far enough from the eye to drop the winds to CAT 1 or lower. Often it isn't that far.

For those unable to pick up and cruise their boats out of harms way... I feel for you.... all those years I couldn't caused me undue concern. Right now I am sweating this recent surge in Atlantic low pressure systems as it will be another week before I get my engine back together.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:13 AM   #37
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"When Sandy hit our yacht club in CT the boats that remained at our docks (floating) sustained little to no damage beyond a few ripped canvas bits. A couple of the boats that elected to be hauled at a nearby yard sustained extensive damage as boats were blown or floated off their jack stands. "


I am glad that worked for you Howard but for many places close by it was the exact opposite due to storm surge and water flow. IN one spot on the Hudson they lost all the docks and the 25+ boats left tied up and many were never seen again.
The key is to know your area and options and pick the best one for you not what someone near yo might be doing.
Some words I'd reemphasize, properly designed and built and floating docks. . Now a lot to that. Pilings driven deep and stable. Pilings tall enough to exceed any surge. Dock connectors strong. Anchor ties to shore strong and adequate.

Yes, at least one of those Hudson docks has since been replaced by Bellingham.

Know your area and options as you say and that means the design and construction of the docks, what surge they can handle, the surge history of the area. The hurricane and wind history. And by know, I mean real verified knowledge not the tales of the locals whose recollections have changed over the many years even more than the size of their fish caught.

If you choose to haul out, know what the capabilities there are too and what history they have and if any of them tell you they had no damage, move on, because it didn't happen.
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Old 08-25-2016, 11:44 AM   #38
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Never went through a major hurricane while we owned Whistful up in Portsmouth, but I know the boat club had a plan in place...don't know that it ever got tested.

I think Capt. John's latest book on cruising the loop he talks about staying in the water, doubling up on setting proper anchors and getting off the boat...at least up to a certain strength storm.

As seen here, some want out, some want to hide if they can. All in all, a very interesting discussion.
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Old 08-25-2016, 12:02 PM   #39
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Almost all of the 10+ marinas we have used have lift heights of 10+ feet just to reach the base of the yard over MHWL. For Sandy it did not look good so we took a more cautious approach and pulled two days ahead once the alerts were up.
Here it is ready for Sandy.....


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Old 08-25-2016, 12:30 PM   #40
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Almost all of the 10+ marinas we have used have lift heights of 10+ feet just to reach the base of the yard over MHWL. For Sandy it did not look good so we took a more cautious approach and pulled two days ahead once the alerts were up.
Here it is ready for Sandy.....


Curious. Any idea on the wind rating of that building? For Sandy looked great, but doesn't look so great for a CAT 3 or above hurricane, although it might be stronger than it appears.
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