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Old 08-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #21
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I can't comment on New England but I can on my often frequented waters.

Along the Jersey Coast and North Carolina the watermen aren't so diligent. They use dark blue, black, and dark green floats, often they are just one small ball and the writing on them is tough to see in daylight, let alone night. They are often in the narrow channels of the waterway and are tough to spot on an overcast, choppy day let alone at night (read impossible unless you are going to crawl along with several big spotlights working.)

The buoys are often in the channel which is against Fish and Game laws and while I know any intelligent crabber doesn't want to lose their trap...why are they in the channels and against the law? It's been upheld in court that watermen can be held accountable for damages if through the positioning of their gear if it endangers other boaters.

Kinda like the "no wake" discussion....respect goes both ways....I have no problem with their fishing...except when they really block up an area to the point where to avoid one string of buoys sends you into another and zigzagging in a narrow, shallow channel is not acceptable.

I don't know why I'm complaining....as an assistance tower, trap lines just means more towing for me....
I don't know about the northeast, but the Chesapeake and NC watermen certainly do use dark colored markers. At night unless a reflector is on them I find the search light useless in finding them. What I use to find them is radar set to close range and a good pair of binoculars. The search light just ruins the night vision. I run the waterway by the marker lights. A quick flashing light usually denotes some sort of change in the channel. Preserving your night vision is your best friend when running at night.
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #22
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I don't know about the northeast, but the Chesapeake and NC watermen certainly do use dark colored markers. At night unless a reflector is on them I find the search light useless in finding them. What I use to find them is radar set to close range and a good pair of binoculars. The search light just ruins the night vision. I run the waterway by the marker lights. A quick flashing light usually denotes some sort of change in the channel. Preserving your night vision is your best friend when running at night.

I know...very dark markers...wow...let alone the ghost ones (lines without buoys)...or the improperly set ones where the float is underwater on the high tide or drug under by weed...Saying you can avoid ALL buoys (meaning you don't need line cutters, etc) is just as silly as Fishermen being mad that you have them.

Radar works a little...but you have both a dead spot on most RADARs close enough that you lose the target where it counts the most (50-100 feet or so unless you have broadband) and in a chop picking up a single buoy...well let's just say you ain't gonna avoid them all.

My point is...I don't care about 90% of them because I don't need to be where they are...but the channels and well traveled routes should be off limits for courtesy purposes...let alone where it's the law.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:04 AM   #23
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Yes. It's been a trip.
First time I've been online in a week.

Well probably be online again in a few days.

Aborted Nova Scotia east coast due to fog.
Crossed bay of fundy yesterday.
Had 10 knots head current two nights ago, trying to get thru tiverton cut.
Details to follow.
Currently on Grand Manan Island.
It's foggy.
Later

Richard
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:33 AM   #24
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I'll contact Cincher and Crazy B... both lifelong Lobstermen in that area and close friends of mine from the late 60’s forward too and including today! I’ll ask them to try and only let passing shots cross your bow - NOT go into your cabin or bridge or waterline next time you snag a buoy... if it happens to be one of theirs. In addition to these two truly great guys, who are at any time ready to fight and kill a grizzly... do you have any idea how irate all the truly wild Lobsterpersons get when their buoys, lines, or pots are fcked with in any way; including thoughtless run over due to little care by any boat’s pilot.

So – besides the correct objective of simple courtesy for hard working Lobsterpersons, and making sure to not hit their buoys by visual observation and simply tuning your steering wheel... Be very, very careful for your own well being... Lobsterpersons follow their own law on the sea. Nearly all are well equipped to fulfill "their" law at any time; and, as they see fit! I know, I worked with Lobsterman pulling traps in that area aboard their Lobster Boats in the early 1970’s. Many of them often drank in my tavern/restaurant in Camden. Several are still close friends. I’ve seen Lobstermen law enacted on those with little respect for their lifestyle and lobster fishing living... Shat can REALLY Hit the Fan!! Again I say, be very, very careful. You keep hitting buoys - - > When you least expect it – Expect IT!

Sorry Art... I will strongly disagree on this issue.
I respect lobstermens' right to make a living. I even respect their right to set gear in the channel, but don't get upset when other traffic snags your gear! I ran a 100' single screw tug based in Rockland Maine for a couple of years. We would tow a 255' x 50' x 15' Dry cement barge. When we would leave Rockland, the barge was loaded and the towing bridles would be underwater (chain bridles). When we would get to Boston or New York and offload, the bridles would be in the air, with 10-15 lobster pot buoys and lines hanging. When returning to Rockland through Penobscot bay, many fisherman would be pissed off at us, seeing this gear dangling from the tow bridles. We can't deviate from the shipping channels and cannot maneuver around every pot with a tow this size. Each oil barge tow, ship that transits the channel is doing the same damage through the gear.
Do I sympathize with the fisherman? Hell yes! but they are not the only users of the waterways.
When I run yachts in gear infested waters it is a different story. I will always make an effort to avoid their gear.
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:09 AM   #25
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Sorry Art... I will strongly disagree on this issue.
I respect lobstermens' right to make a living. I even respect their right to set gear in the channel, but don't get upset when other traffic snags your gear! I ran a 100' single screw tug based in Rockland Maine for a couple of years. We would tow a 255' x 50' x 15' Dry cement barge. When we would leave Rockland, the barge was loaded and the towing bridles would be underwater (chain bridles). When we would get to Boston or New York and offload, the bridles would be in the air, with 10-15 lobster pot buoys and lines hanging. When returning to Rockland through Penobscot bay, many fisherman would be pissed off at us, seeing this gear dangling from the tow bridles. We can't deviate from the shipping channels and cannot maneuver around every pot with a tow this size. Each oil barge tow, ship that transits the channel is doing the same damage through the gear.
Do I sympathize with the fisherman? Hell yes! but they are not the only users of the waterways.
When I run yachts in gear infested waters it is a different story. I will always make an effort to avoid their gear.
S o F - I much agree with you on points. Although, I believe, we've apples and oranges here...

LARGE commercial working craft such as yours have to have leeway for potential to inadvertently snag buoys. lines, pots due to simple logistic needs and therefore virtually no way of avoidance.

BUT... and as you imply - pleasure boaters have responsibility to be careful as possible to NOT snag fisherman's life-line of making a Lobster Living.

Also, the ageless adage: “Might Makes Right”, i.e. Lobster Persons can get mad and may be able to get even with little bitty pleasure crafts that screw with their Lobster Living, however, even a 10 gauge slug will not much afflict your size commercial vessels... therefore all they can do is sneer as your BIG craft pass by!

Life ain’t always fair in all respects... We all (at least most of us) know that!
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:36 AM   #26
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....I have no problem with their fishing...except when they really block up an area to the point where to avoid one string of buoys sends you into another and zigzagging in a narrow, shallow channel is not acceptable.
That's pretty much where I come down on the question but then I've never encountered the numbers of traps that have been mentioned here. Although the lobster men have every right to set there traps in season, it seems to me that they do ,indeed, cause a lot of grief for the unsuspecting boater. (I don't know why I chimed in here as I know absolutely nothing about the problem.)
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:59 AM   #27
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That's pretty much where I come down on the question but then I've never encountered the numbers of traps that have been mentioned here. Although the lobster men have every right to set there traps in season, it seems to me that they do ,indeed, cause a lot of grief for the unsuspecting boater. (I don't know why I chimed in here as I know absolutely nothing about the problem.)


Cauz you're a SeaHorse! Giddy - UP!

BTW: Syn oil chnge on the radar??

Cheers!

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Old 08-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #28
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[BTW: Syn oil chnge on the radar??
That's the third time you've asked me that and the last time I'll answer it. THIS FALL! ()
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #29
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That's the third time you've asked me that and the last time I'll answer it. THIS FALL! ()
OH - I thought it was the fourth time!
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Old 08-03-2013, 01:04 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=twistedtree;171353]I've always dodged lobster buoys with no resentment. Lobstermen work hard for their living, and it's not a big deal to watch for them and steer around... except in Maine. I don't know if the State just allows too many permits, or what the deal is, but the buoys are a true hazard to navigation and interfere with public use of public waters. I had the exact same experience as you last summer, and ever since, the gloves have come off. I won't intentionally run over a trap, but when a channel is otherwise impassible, there is only one solution - sharp cutters and more throttle.[/QUOTE]

I reposted this as a reminder of how things started to be "us" and "them"...whomever that might be.

And I restate my position....90+ percent (or so) of the water is general purpose water...useable for any legal purpose and where everyone should try and get along. Channels and thoroughfares are for those that need them and use them to get places....ALL other forms of recreation and commercial endeavors should be secondary and even the NAVRULES tend to agree. While fishing takes priority over powerboats in open water....narrow channels and traffic lanes it does NOT for a reason.

So lecture away on what a tough life it is...and how tough they can be...but as I said...more and more the courts and rules are leaning towards keeping the channels for what they are intended for (at least now...maybe it wasn't an issue in the 1600's but it is now).
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