Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-02-2015, 01:18 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Diesel Duck's Avatar
 
City: discomfort.reactants.peanuts
Country: Colombia, South America and Huatulco, Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 466
Anchor recess vs. pulpit/roller

I'm curious to know what the advantages or disadvantages are to having an anchor recess on either the port, starboard or both sides of the bow vs. having an anchor roller/pulpit setup? I do realize that having an anchor recess on a smaller vessel may not be physically possible so my question is referring to a boat large enough to accommodate it. Is it more of an aesthetics issue or is there some practicality involved for favoring one over the other?

Below is an example of a vessel with an anchor recess... (actually it has two, one port and one starboard)



And here is the anchor roller/pulpit setup...

__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Diesel Duck
*For Sale or Trade this oceanfront Mexican villa (www.QuintaAlegria.com) for the right 'Trawler' - Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Diesel Duck or ???
Diesel Duck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 01:21 AM   #2
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
A proper recessed anchor setup like the first picture would be to much weight up forward for the average size recreational boat like that 63, maybe it'd work on an 86, but it's still a lot of weight forward.
__________________

__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 01:27 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Diesel Duck's Avatar
 
City: discomfort.reactants.peanuts
Country: Colombia, South America and Huatulco, Mexico
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
A proper recessed anchor setup like the first picture would be to much weight up forward for the average size recreational boat like that 63, maybe it'd work on an 86, but it's still a lot of weight forward.
Hmmmm.... Interesting. If that's the case then I'm wondering how Bering Yachts gets away with it on their smallest models, their B55, B60 and B65 (They also have a recessed anchor setup on their larger models, the B70, B75, B77, B80 and their B95).

Post edit: Where exactly is the extra weight? It can't be that much more than the roller/pulpit setup. Adding a stainless protection plate is the only extra weight that I can think of.
__________________
Diesel Duck
*For Sale or Trade this oceanfront Mexican villa (www.QuintaAlegria.com) for the right 'Trawler' - Nordhavn, Kadey Krogen, Diesel Duck or ???
Diesel Duck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 01:55 AM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Yes, I don't agree re the weight forward being any more, unless one had a large anchor both sides in the recess. Even then, the size of the vessel would lessen the importance of that anyway. I think the real issue is that once a vessel gets beyond a certain (larger) size, the weight of a suitably large anchor whipping around on a roller in a seaway, and the massive roller and fittings it would have to be able to hold it, detracts from the one advantage of the bow roller system, which is that it allows a greater choice in anchor type. With the recessed types as in pic one, you are limited to the Naval or double fluked, Danforth type, but this is probably of no real consequence, because the sheer size and weight makes the holding power more effective, and the exact type less important. For example, the anchor type all large ships have.

To me, for our type of vessel, the advantage of a bow roller is simpler hull shape/construction, and the flexibility of choice of anchor type, the fact it is centrally located, and ease of changing to suit different bottoms if need be. The latter less of an issue with the more modern multi-bottom-capable types now on offer.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 04:16 AM   #5
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,131
Anchor recess vs. pulpit/roller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Duck 492 View Post

Post edit: Where exactly is the extra weight? It can't be that much more than the roller/pulpit setup. Adding a stainless protection plate is the only extra weight that I can think of.
there is quite a lot of added fiberglass and interior framing to allow for the stress' on the anchor not just while home, when its deployed. The stainless plate is not structural. It's just to stop the anchor from dinging the finish of the hull.

I cannot verify, but have been told over the years that in addition to having two anchors ready for deployment, the vessels in the Southern Hemisphere tend to lie to starboard at anchor when prevailing wind shifts fronts and storms come. And it's opposite in the northern hemisphere. Not entirely convinced of that, but old lore dies hard. Thus a vessel that stays in northern latitudes usually has an anchor on port bow. And vessel that stays in Southern Hemisphere has the anchor on Stbd bow. Personally, I think it's BS about the hemisphere thing.

http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showth...83/topics/9618

But I could be wrong!
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 08:29 AM   #6
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Duck 492 View Post
Hmmmm.... Interesting. If that's the case then I'm wondering how Bering Yachts gets away with it on their smallest models, their B55, B60 and B65 (They also have a recessed anchor setup on their larger models, the B70, B75, B77, B80 and their B95).

Post edit: Where exactly is the extra weight? It can't be that much more than the roller/pulpit setup. Adding a stainless protection plate is the only extra weight that I can think of.

Those are steel boats, it's super easy to make it structural with Minimal effort. I'm sure Nordhavn would build one of someone was willing to pay, they're know for doing stupid design changes for money. But a properly built anchor well should be structural, at least I think so. Also it takes space away from the chain locker. That's my take on it.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 08:30 AM   #7
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Yes, I don't agree re the weight forward being any more, unless one had a large anchor both sides in the recess. Even then, the size of the vessel would lessen the importance of that anyway. I think the real issue is that once a vessel gets beyond a certain (larger) size, the weight of a suitably large anchor whipping around on a roller in a seaway, and the massive roller and fittings it would have to be able to hold it, detracts from the one advantage of the bow roller system, which is that it allows a greater choice in anchor type. With the recessed types as in pic one, you are limited to the Naval or double fluked, Danforth type, but this is probably of no real consequence, because the sheer size and weight makes the holding power more effective, and the exact type less important. For example, the anchor type all large ships have.

To me, for our type of vessel, the advantage of a bow roller is simpler hull shape/construction, and the flexibility of choice of anchor type, the fact it is centrally located, and ease of changing to suit different bottoms if need be. The latter less of an issue with the more modern multi-bottom-capable types now on offer.

There's lots of boats with roller setups, the anchors if properly sized and secured don't whip around.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 09:37 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 492
Our bow roller is 13' above the waterline and this measurement must be added to depth measurements when calculating how much chain to let out. If we had pocket anchors obviously we could use less chain. We get around this by attaching our snubber to a point 3' off the water. I've never seen a pocket anchor with a snubber and I'm not sure it would be easy to rig so I'm guessing these yachts don't use them. I think the advantages of a pulpit get smaller as anchors get larger that's why ships and big yachts have pocket anchors.


Via iPhone.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 09:50 AM   #9
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,319
The PO's of our boat added an extra 40 gallon fuel tank in the lazarette and a swim grid, at the end of which we have our dinghy stowed and keep our 'get home kicker' on a swiveling bracket...we need a storm anchor and a bunch of chain at the bow to balance things out

Plan is to hopefully keep the anchor pulpit for the working anchor, and use the anchor recess below it for the storm anchor...if possible.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2015, 11:02 AM   #10
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,705
How much moorage does the bow pulpits cost?

Anchor recess is the best setup I'm convinced and cost is probably the reason we don't see it on small boats. For openers one would need a split mold .... expensive

Perhaps ideal is what Ranger is doing for their anchor mount. I'll take a pic of one today at the marina. It seems I can post one pic w my i-pad.

And a big part of it is anchor comparability. A lot of the best anchors are hard to mount and some are mounted on the bottom of the hull completely out of sight. Part of the anchor becomes part of the hull when fully retracted. Manson calls their's "hiding". Check out their website.

Claws and Forfjords lend to nesting a bit w the bow and offer some slick installations but to get high holding power a bigger anchor is required.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 06:09 AM   #11
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
ON our 90/90 we opted for a Hawse Hole anchor storage.

Clears up the bow area for other things
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 08:02 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
There's lots of boats with roller setups, the anchors if properly sized and secured don't whip around.
Sorry Oliver, but watch your anchor closely next time you are in a seaway. They really whip around, in a physical sense, as the bow moves beneath them. How well they are fixed down in/on their roller is then the critical issue.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 08:12 AM   #13
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Sorry Oliver, but watch your anchor closely next time you are in a seaway. They really whip around, in a physical sense, as the bow moves beneath them. How well they are fixed down in/on their roller is then the critical issue.
The anchor that came with my boat fit perfectly snug into the pulpit it wouldn't go anywhere. Its shank was more flat plus the knuckle would snug up against the pulpit. It wouldn't go anywhere. My rocna is a different story its a little bigger then the grove in my roller so it leans to one side.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 08:50 AM   #14
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
On a typical recreational cruising boat, I personally don't like the anchor recess idea at all.

Among other objections, a lot of our anchoring is in very sticky mud, so washing off the chain and anchor is important to me, and the recess approach would make that almost impossible for the anchor and difficult and messy for the chain. And no, I don't like washing them off solely by leaving it partially submerged and dragging it around while under power or "bumping" it up and down. Yes, I know that's what the "big boys" do and seen them do it. Works better on the fluke type anchors that are used in those applications. And those anchors need to be extremely heavy, something I don't want to deal with the day the windlass doesn't work.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 09:43 AM   #15
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
Hanging in a Hawse Hole , if the mud decides to drop off (as it dries out) it goes into the water.

Our 90/90 has a collision bulkhead so the deck in the fwd 4-5ft is dropped to create a well.

The hawse holes on either side empy the space in a few seconds.

It holds sail bags and becomes a fwd cockpit and is quite comfortable , undt power with the AP remote . under sail with the Self steerering or simply at anchor as a great reading spot.

I posted a pic of my favorite boat by Mr H, ,,STROLLER,, with a bow CP, and note that Tom Fexas had bow cockpits on his fantastic Midnight Lace series .

Where has style and comfort gone? To mere internal volume?

Just to create a roomaran interior?

Those Midnight Lace boats are becoming collectors items and would do great at most anything but an ocean crossing. Sadly most had Volvos .

Bit a ZERO round trip should be easy.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 10:20 AM   #16
Guru
 
hmason's Avatar
 
City: Westport, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Magic
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 46 Europa
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,890
[QUOTE=N4712;365308. I'm sure Nordhavn would build one of someone was willing to pay, they're know for doing stupid design changes for money. But a properly built anchor well should be structural, at least I think so. [QUOTE]


Will they build an oversized shoe locker? Just wondering about that.
__________________
Howard
Magic, 1996 Grand Banks Europa
Westport, CT and Stuart, FL
hmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 11:15 AM   #17
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,078
As the size of the boat (ship?) goes up so the the forces imposed on an anchor roller. I am just guessing here, but at some point it would seem to be easier to built a hawse hole setup to take the strain than an anchor roller?
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 11:30 AM   #18
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 670
It seems to me that cost is a big factor. An anchor roller costs a couple hundred. Just the stainless protection plate on the recess would be considerably more than that.

Another factor is redundancy. On smaller boats with anchors under 60 lbs, it is possible to manually raise the anchor. So a roller setup makes sense if the windlass fails since the rode is accessible for hand raising the anchor. On a bigger boat with a 500+ lb anchor there is no way you can raise the anchor by hand, so no need for exposed rode.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 06:49 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
"As the size of the boat (ship?) goes up so the the forces imposed on an anchor roller.

Yes the hull is far better at taking the load than a add on SS platform.

Another advantage to a hawse hole is it can have a sturdy cleat very close.

Anchored, the short distance between the line entry on board means no chafe , no noise from lines stretching.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 11:10 AM   #20
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,705
Here's the anchor mounting setup on some Rangers.
Kinda built in instead of tacked on. Unlike a hawspipe the anchor is high enough to stay out of waves most of the time. The helmsman's view fwd isn't littered w anchors, some w roll bars and other typical clutter. Much cleaner looking too.
Not fond of these boats but like this anchor setup and some other Ranger boat features.
What on earth is that contraption just above the anchor? Seems stupid to get rid of the bow pulpit and then tack on something similar.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image[1].jpg
Views:	50
Size:	149.5 KB
ID:	44148  
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012