Anchor Chain Knotting up

[dwiggl]

Well we finally got the boat. An '89 Carver Californian. Solid bones & have been working the details.
The problem: The chain knots up when winching into the locker. This occurs at the last 6' to haul in, leaving the anchor dangling at water level. This causes the chain to bind up in the windlass. Very dangerous. I actually had to tug on the chain from the bilge access which causes it to come tumbling down to the bottom of the locker. Again, dangerous.

I can't imagine that the previous (original) owner dealt with this for 30 years. Chain has very minor/spotty surface corrosion and is galvanized. I am thinking the chain just needs to be cleaned, maybe lubricated with some white grease? Would it be an issue where I just need bring out all of the chain and thread it back in to the locker?
Thanks for your input!

 

[rgano]

So you have a length of twisted chain between the windlass and the anchor right? Do you have a groove in the anchor roller the with of the chain size or a tiny bit larger? Is there a swivel at the anchor end of your chain? Are you using all-chain rode? Had you been in a reversing current with the boat circling the anchor? Answers here will help devise the solution to your problem.

 

[dwiggl]

So you have a length of twisted chain between the windlass and the anchor right? No, it is piling up in the top of the locker so no more feeds in. Do you have a groove in the anchor roller the with of the chain size or a tiny bit larger? Affirmative Is there a swivel at the anchor end of your chain? Yes Are you using all-chain rode? Yes Had you been in a reversing current with the boat circling the anchor? No, mild steady tide, no wind, in only 15' of water.

 

[Tomas]

Try taking the boat into deeper water, let the chain out but don't let the anchor hit the bottom. Give the chain some time to untwist before hauling it in. See if that will fix your knotting problem.

 

[Barabus]

Not sure this is your problem but you need to knock down the “chain castle” that builds up in the locker every 50’ to 100’.

 

[AusCan]

So you have a length of twisted chain between the windlass and the anchor right? No, it is piling up in the top of the locker so no more feeds in.

If it is just piling up in the locker (castling), this is common if the chain locker is not deep enough for the amount of chain.
The options are:
knocking down the pile of chain before it becomes a problem;
install a cone shaped spreader in your chain locker to spread out the pile;
or change to stainless chain.

I use option one, but have access to the chain locker from the bow so it makes it a bit easier.

 

[Comodave]

I am lucky that my rope locker is very deep so the chain doesn’t pile up. Is there a deeper part of the locker that you could direct the chain there with some kind of chute? BTW, congrats on your new boat. Which model is it? We are maybe thinking of a 55 Californian but have not been able to actually see one yet.

 

[DavidM]

I have lived with this problem on almost all of the boats that I have owned since I have always used all chain rode. Yes you have to knock down the chain pile that builds up. I used to keep a short length of SS pipe up at the bow to reach down in the hawse hole and knock it down after retrieving 100' of chain and every 50' after that.

Most chain lockers aren't deep enough to prevent it. If the chain locker is long and the hawse hole is forward, maybe a piece of starboard fitting in the chain locker at an incline will let the chain slide back.

Curious about the SS chain suggestion. Is SS smoother so it doesn't pile up as bad? SS brings up another series of questions about WLL as SS generally has a lower tensile strength than HT steel chain. Also it is insanely expensive.

E-Rigging has SS 5/16 chain that they say has the same tensile strength as G4 at $9/ft that might work.

David

 

[bayview]

Try taking the boat into deeper water, let the chain out but don't let the anchor hit the bottom. Give the chain some time to untwist before hauling it in. See if that will fix your knotting problem.

+1

 

[BrisHamish]

To David M’s question re stainless chain.

Because it is smooth it flakes easily into the chain locker, it doesn’t “grip” and hence no pile which you then have to knock over or manage somehow. (The galvanised chain becomes ‘sticky’ as soon as the gal gets a bit of use on it).

Yes, it has lower tensile strength so you need to increase the chain size a little.

Yes, it is insanely expensive.

And yes, it works a treat. I have never had the chain jam since I changed to stainless.

Some of the top manufacturers now deliver new boats with stainless chain - eg Fleming.

Hamish.

 

[rgano]

Thanks for your answers. I see it got you some well considered answers. My trawler came to me with over 400 feet of 5/16 BBB chain - west coast boat. When I brought it to the shallow Gulf Coast in 1990, I cut off 200 feet and never had to knock over piled up chain again.

 

[FlyWright]

Not sure this is your problem but you need to knock down the “chain castle” that builds up in the locker every 50’ to 100’.

I have lived with this problem on almost all of the boats that I have owned since I have always used all chain rode. Yes you have to knock down the chain pile that builds up. I used to keep a short length of SS pipe up at the bow to reach down in the hawse hole and knock it down after retrieving 100' of chain and every 50' after that.

Most chain lockers aren't deep enough to prevent it. If the chain locker is long and the hawse hole is forward, maybe a piece of starboard fitting in the chain locker at an incline will let the chain slide back.

Curious about the SS chain suggestion. Is SS smoother so it doesn't pile up as bad? SS brings up another series of questions about WLL as SS generally has a lower tensile strength than HT steel chain. Also it is insanely expensive.

E-Rigging has SS 5/16 chain that they say has the same tensile strength as G4 at $9/ft that might work.

David

I agree wholeheartedly! Knock it down and press on.

IMO, each boat has its own peccadilloes. We just need to learn them and adjust...or spend a HUUUUUUUGE amount of money to someone else to fix the issue.

I'm cheap so I learn to adjust...

 

[koliver]

After living with the same issue for 26 yrs, here is what I do:
Mark my chain every 50 ft. I actually mark it every 10' with coloured cable ties. the colour changes every 50 ft. When I get to a colour change, I stop, go below and knock the pile over. Then back for another 50 ft. I have 200' of chain, and usually anchor where that is more than I need. knocking the pile over every 50 ft, it can't pile up enough to foul the pipe leading up to the windlass.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Go into water deeper than your chain is long. Remove the anchor and lower all the chain into the water. Give it an hour to untwist then run it back in, you may need to repeat.

pete

 

[Mr. Ed]

The problem of chain castling in the locker got me thinking. How about putting a small traffic cone in the bottom of the locker, so that all the chain would be directed to the outside? I haven't had this problem (yet) or tried the solution, just sharing the idea for critical comments.

 

[markpierce]

Isn't that's what anchor swivels are for, unwinding twists? Also, bring up the anchor slowly.

 

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by dwiggl in response to the question...

"So you have a length of twisted chain between the windlass and the anchor right?"

No, it is piling up in the top of the locker so no more feeds in.

If it is just piling up in the locker (castling), this is common if the chain locker is not deep enough for the amount of chain.
The options are:
knocking down the pile of chain before it becomes a problem;
install a cone shaped spreader in your chain locker to spread out the pile;
or change to stainless chain.

I use option one, but have access to the chain locker from the bow so it makes it a bit easier.

This is quite a common issue. I must admit to occasionally just letting the chain pile up on the foredeck under the pulpit if the hawse hole to the locker got blocked, and doing a sort out later. This would include spreading the chain in the locker out later once back at the dock or re-anchored, then feeding the anchor and bunched up chain back out and retrieving again.

Often it happened after we had anchored deeper than usual, and therefore had a larger amount retrieved, which created a larger than usual piling up. A good old knock down and spreading of the pile, which meant gaining access via a hatch in the for'd bulkhead in the front cabin, usually did the trick for some time. That access issue is why when it happened, I'd just let it pile up on the foredeck. Nowhere engraved in tablets of stone does it say you can't just do that you know. And if it's rather muddy chain, it's easier to hose it clean on the foredeck and down the scuppers than in the locker.

 

[kapnd]

Go into water deeper than your chain is long. Remove the anchor and lower all the chain into the water. Give it an hour to untwist then run it back in, you may need to repeat.

pete

This will be much more effective than hanging with anchor attached, in fact, no waiting involved, the chain groove in the bow roller should take out the twists as chain is retrieved.

 

[FF]

If the locker is deep enough a chain box -tall and deep will solve the problem. Sized for the chain used , in Skeens Elements at your local library.

 

[rgano]

This will be much more effective than hanging with anchor attached, in fact, no waiting involved, the chain groove in the bow roller should take out the twists as chain is retrieved.

But twisted chain is not the OP's problem. It is chain piling up in the chain locker - nothing whatsoever to do with twisted chain.

I used to stop retrieving my all chain rode every so often and with a chain hook holding the chain outboard of the windlass in place grab the chain where it went down the chain pipe into the chain locker. Then I lifted up several feet of it and yo-yo'd it up and down until I would hear the piled up chain tumble over. Then I continued retrieving.

 

[rgano]

The problem of chain castling in the locker got me thinking. How about putting a small traffic cone in the bottom of the locker, so that all the chain would be directed to the outside? I haven't had this problem (yet) or tried the solution, just sharing the idea for critical comments.

In have heard that plastic traffic cones get crushed by the weight of chain. Better to use one as a form and build a fiberglass cone around it?

 

[sunchaser]

Try taking the boat into deeper water, let the chain out but don't let the anchor hit the bottom. Give the chain some time to untwist before hauling it in. See if that will fix your knotting problem.

Do not do this unless you are 100.000 % sure the bitter end is secured and not rotted or rusted out.

Also, what we do once a season is let the anchor and all chain out on the dock. Then undo and straighten the rope bitter end which has become twisted. Next wash and bleach the anchor locker. Lastly, re- affix the bitter end and retrieve the chain and anchor freshly marking the distances.

 

[dwiggl]

Wow! A universal challenge! Lots of good advice received. Yes the anchor has a swivel, and that doesn't mean anything until I access its ability to rotate. I need to dig into the locker and access the pile-up, and the bitter end before letting it all hang all out.
Cleaning during winter haul-out is going to happen also. Will try to see saw the pile during reel-in. The push pipe may not be doable as the chain goes directly into the H-pipe from the windlass. Looks real pretty, not exactly practical.
She is a 45'. Wife loves it, that makes "me-too".
Thanks Captains, D

 

[KnotYet]

The problem of chain castling in the locker got me thinking. How about putting a small traffic cone in the bottom of the locker, so that all the chain would be directed to the outside? I haven't had this problem (yet) or tried the solution, just sharing the idea for critical comments.

Probably should add in a stiffener to keep the cone from just collapsing, though.
Sheet metal, rigid foam or even quick-set cement would work.

 

[Brooksie]

I had this problem (I think) Chain piling up in the locker in a pyramid then falling over on itself while underway, then jamming up on next deployment. Tried many things but it turned out to be just too much chain for the size of the locker. Disposing of some chain solved the problem.

 

[silverback]

I found that when i changed from the, far too light 8mm to 10mm the Heavier chain tended not to castle. I put a swivel at the bitter end as over the years i notice that kinks accumulate there.
By laying the last 50’ out in the locker floor the problem is overcome unless the whole rode is deplyed. Which is not often. So a much better anchor system and happy chain locker?

 

[FF]

Secure the bitter end well, but use heavy line that reaches to the deck so you can cut it if needed and attach some sort of float so you dont loose the chain.

 

[fryedaze]

I had the same problem. The chain drops too far forward and the locker isn't deep enough. It also drops right into the V of the bow and stacks up. To improve my odds I put a 1x12 board across the V and installed a hard plastic safety cone at the bottom.

 

[Redhook98]

I went from a rope only windlass situation to 75 ft of chain + 300ft of 5/8 line. Mine did the exact same. Wasn't piling up in the chain locker, but would rather get twisted or kinked up at the top of the haws pipe, which in turn fouled the windlass. Although the chain fit through it very well, the pipe was too small. Most of the chain would pass through normally, then it would get kinked. I had to go down below to the chain locker and give it a yank. I got tired of this after three times and installed a larger haws pipe (went from 2 inches to 3). Big difference and never had the problem again.

 

[dennisspain]

I had the same problem. The chain drops too far forward and the locker isn't deep enough. It also drops right into the V of the bow and stacks up. To improve my odds I put a 1x12 board across the V and installed a hard plastic safety cone at the bottom.

So does the cone help? And if so, where did you find a “hard” cone?