Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-16-2014, 12:11 AM   #1
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,690
anchor chain on drum anchor winch

Good evening-
In my earlier boating days a couple of boats owned had simple 12 volt anchor winches with a horizontal drum. During those ownerships pulling the anchor having a reasonable length of chain to the anchor was pulled continuously following the anchor line being on board. Never thought anything of it and never had a problem. I recall taking additional wrap or two prior to the chain being met in order to limit any slippage.
So- Now in my later years yearning for a anchor winch to aid this old man, I find about every manufacture employing drums advocating against using chain on their drum.
In conversation with various local boaters, some pull the chain, others stop and pull the chain by hand.
Would like to hear comments pro/con on the issue. By the way, the boat involved is pictured in our history site here to the left-28 foot, 11,000#
currently using 15# Danforth, 35 feet of 1/4 chain.

Thanks guys (gals)
Al
__________________
Advertisement

Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:42 AM   #2
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,443
I think that modern chain gypsies can handle rope too - ask around your marina if the vendors don't know.
__________________

__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 04:15 AM   #3
Guru
 
Conrad's Avatar
 
City: Calgary
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blue Sky
Vessel Model: Nordic Tugs 42 Hull #001
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,553
On our previous boat (32') we had a Maxwell HRC 10 that handled the chain and rode seamlessly.

Horizontal Rope and Chain Range
__________________
Conrad
Berthed in
Campbell River BC
Conrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:51 AM   #4
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
Chain will eat any chrome off the drum, no big deakl.

The 20H Danforth weighs very little extra and probably is 2X-3X the anchor as the 15.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 09:36 AM   #5
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
My windless is a Maxwell Hrc 10-8 with chain/rope gypsy and separate drum.

Love it.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 12:17 PM   #6
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
My Willard came w a 13lb Danforth and I've always had good luck w it but felt it was only good for mellow conditions. Stayed put in a small anchorage one night w 35 knot winds but felt it may not hold much more.

Got several other anchors and finally a small capstan. I use about 12' of chain. 1st 3' of chain is 3/8" and the rest 5/16th". My newer (and older) anchors are mostly 18 to 22lbs.

Never use the capstan drum w chain. Just hand pull the metal part of the rode when the line is all up. The 18/22lb anchors are easy to pull w the chain. The 35lb not so easy but could be done all the time.

Al we could probably easily pull the rode if we had 15' of 1/4" HT chain, 1/2" nylon line and an extremely high holding power Fortress anchor. An 18lb Fortress would probably have as much holding power as several of our small steel Danforths. Also a 15lb Fortress would be much bigger than your 15lb Danforth and you could keep a Kellet handy for heavy weather. I made a 12lb Kellet from lead found at the end of a fishing buoy/mast/flag.

The rest of my rode is 5/8" nylon Brait and when anchoring in deep Alaskan waters it reduces the physical work of pulling the rode tremendously.

If I had 50 to 100' of chain I'd want to have a drum and gypsy winch and transfer the rode from the drum to the gypsy when the chain comes up. One or both (gypsy/drum) would not be aligned w the bow roller but an idler could be employed for alignment.
How many of you do that instead of splicing the chain to the line? There would come a point where the weight of the rode would make it impractical to transfer the rode to the gypsy.

With a large yacht in the 60s how did they do it?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 01:05 PM   #7
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
most of the newer chain gypsies also accept rope rode (although I would personally never want rope) so I don't see what the big fuss is?
HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 01:13 PM   #8
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,443
Like Hollywood said, and like I said in the second post, gypsies will handle rope as well as chain. There is no need to switch sides to the other side of the windlass, just pull it in. If you insist on using different sized chain in your rode, you have a problem.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:01 PM   #9
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
I don't insist and I don't have a problem. My system gives me the option of concentrating the weight where it will do the most good. There are usually advantages to most things.

Notice all these fishermen also have that option .. to put more weight in the chain part of the rode closest to the anchor. And under the chain on the drum most have more nylon line than chain. Because they have the option they use shackles to connect all the different parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71063 copy.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	139.4 KB
ID:	27433   Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71064 copy.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	136.7 KB
ID:	27434   Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71066 copy.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	151.2 KB
ID:	27435   Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71067 copy.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	125.7 KB
ID:	27436   Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71068 copy.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	129.5 KB
ID:	27437  

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:24 PM   #10
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,864
By drum anchor winch do you mean similar to the setups posted by Eric [Manyboats}.?

As shown they will handle combinations quite well. You just have to be aware of the drum limits and maybe guide the rope/chain a bit so it covers the drum evenly. Guide STICK, not hands.

The really big ones often had a guide that ran back and forth across the drum face to evenly load the drum.

I do not have one but wish I did. Not enough deck space without MAJOR alterations.

I've seen one lovely looking vessel, work boat look but not, some years ago that had one of these drums but they built a compartment to hide it mostly. The boat ws far larger than mine and of course lots of things can be done when done from new.

These things are almost always used on commercial vessels where practicality/relaibility supercedes appearance. However a few do appear on pleasure boats.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 02:37 PM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
By drum anchor winch do you mean similar to the setups posted by Eric [Manyboats}.?

As shown they will handle combinations quite well. You just have to be aware of the drum limits and maybe guide the rope/chain a bit so it covers the drum evenly. Guide STICK, not hands.

The really big ones often had a guide that ran back and forth across the drum face to evenly load the drum.

I do not have one but wish I did. Not enough deck space without MAJOR alterations.

I've seen one lovely looking vessel, work boat look but not, some years ago that had one of these drums but they built a compartment to hide it mostly. The boat ws far larger than mine and of course lots of things can be done when done from new.

These things are almost always used on commercial vessels where practicality/relaibility supercedes appearance. However a few do appear on pleasure boats.
And there may be more reasons.....such as fishermen often don't buy things that are made for "yachts"...not because they don't work just as well...it's often just plain old dollars...

And not ALL fishermen or all commercial boats employ rope/chain drums either...there are lots of reasons for different anchors, rode combinations, and anchoring techniques....none right...none wrong and depending none better...none worse...(depending on again many reasons).

Today's tech has windlasses that will accommodate a combo rode without manual intervention...unfortunately, sometimes wear on the nylon often incapacitates them faster than you wish
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 03:59 PM   #12
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
C lectric,
I assume you're talking about Al's 1st post and no I think he was talking about the typical winch or windlass on a trawler w the gypsy on the stbd side and the small drum to port. And in my post #6 I was referring to the same type of winch.

I posted the pics to show how the fishermen were using super large chain, then large chain and then (usually) nylon line. I was showing that the fishermen concentrated the weight of their rode close to the anchor where it would do the most good. Not up in their chain locker or only 10' down in the water.

C lectric,
How big is your boat? What type or brand?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:04 PM   #13
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,864
It's a 32' Palmer built locally. Mine was built as a pleasure boat and one of the last boats the yard produced before they closed their doors. Mostly they built trollers and gillnetters and of course some hulls out to people who then did their own thing.

I guess I need to read more carefully but the commercial drum winches popped into my head and that's what I read from there on.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3437.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	134.6 KB
ID:	27442  
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:08 PM   #14
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,690
Eric, I was addressing a single drum, no gypsy winch. Still, having a drum winch to pull the line up to the chain and then hand pulling the chain would be an improvement over the current hand over hand throughout.

As the "Tenacious" (18,000#) has a 13# Danforth and one came with the "Slo~Belle" (11,000#), I have been comfortable on using the Danforth. with both systems the same Danforth anchor seems not a issue with the lighter boat .
When the decision and installation is complete, I will switch out the Danforth for the equal weighted valued "plow" anchor that also came with the boat, for comparison.
Additional views are looked forward to and thanks for the input to this point.
Al.
Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:11 PM   #15
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,690
C electric- Allow me to state that you have a very nice and qualified B.C./Alaska style boat!! Thanks for showing a photo! A
Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:37 PM   #16
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
Oh I seeee. C electric's boat. That is indeed a proper PNW boat and otherwise too. Yes I've seen others too but none this nice and tastefully trimmed boat. I even like the FB! Sure glad I asked for a picture!

I like the vented keel too. I'll bet she dosn't fall off on her bow and perhaps even faces a bit into the wind. I had an OB boat that would put her bow to the wind so it was so pleasant to stop and take a break in the aft cockpit. Most boats fall off on the bow and wonder what the NA had in mind here.

I have this winch for $400. Chain drive reduction drive. Very powerful. Would be operational if the hydraulic motor works.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	STH71089 copy 4.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	187.4 KB
ID:	27445  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 08:01 PM   #17
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Somewhere
Country: , Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer sedan 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,864
Thank you. It keeps me out of mischief or in it maybe.

I thought of one of those winches a few years ago when I was having trouble with my electric windlass but I would literally have to butcher my foredeck to mount it and I finally elected to repair what I have. Oddly, the windlass works better now than it ever did.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:48 AM   #18
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,490
Al, get yourself one of the modern winches that you can just sit up on the bridge, push a button and watch the line and chain come in. You don't have to handle anything. I like the Lewmar ones because I've had one for about twenty years and it still works. Here is a picture of one of the new Lewmars.




I think the type that Eric has pictured and is common in the PNW is called a captive reel windlass. Lewmar is showing a very nice little one for small boats at the Miami boat show. They are having such a good response to it that they're thinking of making a bigger one.

The advantage of the captive reel type is that it frees up space below that would be taken by the rope locker.
Captive Reel Windlasses products
HopCar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 01:14 AM   #19
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by The advantage of the captive reel type is that it frees up space below that would be taken by the rope locker.
[URL="http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=9268&type=168&channel=1"
Captive Reel Windlasses products[/URL]

the real advantage is that a lot of fishermen here run wire cable on the drum with a length of chain between the cable and anchor... it allows for a LOT of rode as some of the anchorages in Alaska/Canada are deep. And the set up is simple. Most run hydraulic motors to drive them and they are pretty fast

HOLLYWOOD


Anchor Winches - Aluminum - Drum Style - Winches
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Alum_Anchor_Winch_for_Catagory.jpg
Views:	1804
Size:	184.6 KB
ID:	27450  
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 06:25 AM   #20
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
The only hassle with a cable drum , fitted with chain is the windlass power goes down as the chain is wound on.

The drum diameter gets bigger , lowers torque, but with a Hyd drive its problably not a hassle.

Might be a problem with far weaker electric drive?
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012