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Old 02-17-2014, 10:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by FF View Post
The only hassle with a cable drum , fitted with chain is the windlass power goes down as the chain is wound on.

The drum diameter gets bigger , lowers torque, but with a Hyd drive its problably not a hassle.

Might be a problem with far weaker electric drive?
yes
yes
and yes. If I ever do a new build boat for my self it will have a deck mounted reel winch with galvanized cable and about 100' of chain... I think the only trick is a snubber arrangement to lessen shock loading... or I guess nylon line.
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Old 02-17-2014, 12:00 PM   #22
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The amount of rode stored on a reel winch is not one of their positive features unless one uses cable and in my years in Alaska I haven't seen a boat w cable. Heard of one though.

They are powerful. Especially the ones w reduction drive. To my knowledge I've not seen a reel winch w an electric motor but I know they exist.

One of the biggest advantages of the reel winch (RW) is that the rode is stored on deck. On my trip to Alaska w my last boat the cabin had a bit of a foul smell from the constantly wet anchor rode just ahead of our berths. So on Willy I opted to put the rode in a box on deck. With a RW the rode is also on deck.

Speed seems to be a priority w the fishermen. One that I know said to me " Eric I don't have time to do all that stuff you guys do just to pull anchor." His priority is to have his gear in the water as long and often as possible. He's fish'in .. Not cruis'in. That's one of the main reasons they use such big anchors. I don't think most fishermen in SE set their anchor. They just dump the rode down on the bottom and a bit more. Their chain comes off the bow and goes straight down. And in the morning their bow is in the same place and the chain is still straight down. Unless there's mor than a bit of wind. So speed is a big issue w them.

For me the ability to carry a rode made up of nylon line and several (at least 2) different sizes of chain maximizes the benefit of weight in the rode (especially next to the anchor) so I get maximum benefit from the weight in the rode and a minimum rode weight for a given performance. As I see it the ideal rode can only be handled by hand or a reel winch.

Some con's are expense and space used on deck. Also for a pleasure boat usually there is not a hydraulic pump on the boat so either one must instal same or run the RW w an electric motor. Minimum cost for the RW is about $3000. The reduction chain drive winch in my pic would probably cost 4 or 5K. That excludes the pump and associated infrastructure below decks.

The advantages to the fishermen is such that you rarely see a fish boat in SE w/o a RW.

The advantages to the yachtsman should be obvious and the con is mostly that the RW is not considered a work of art to anybody but the fishermen. And the fishermen think real fishermen have reel winches.
Being all aluminum they can be painted, anodized or polished.but the hoses and fittings are hard to keep presentable at the yacht club.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:45 PM   #23
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Thanks Hopcar, I have taken this model into consideration. The line/chain locker remains in play with any form of stowage. In our case, the access is off to the side as the current method is hand over hand and the line/chain is led into that opening. The mounting for this Lewmar is through a built in feed. Our current anchor is on a mounted above deck level board holding the secured anchor and roller. Lots of change to accommodate a Lewmar. Make no mistake, the Lewmar is in the mix. On the other hand, the conversation so far is leading me towards a single horizontal drum where the transfer from the drum to hand when the chain appears. KISS
Edurance Marine 12V Capstan Winch



Line Speed: 200 lbs @ 31 fpm 50A draw, 600 lbs @17 fpm 85A draw. Length x Width x Height: 12.65 x 6.5 x 6.7 in. kit includes: Capstan Winch, Heavy duty 12V solenoid, Deck Switch with Stainless Steel cover plate, 40 amp circuit breaker.
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Old 02-17-2014, 02:50 PM   #24
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There is a old Chris Craft in the marina that has a winch type windlass on the bow, the boat has never moved in the 4 years I've been there. It appears to have SS cable & a short piece of chain & a danforth anchor, the winch is electric powered with planetary drive. I always thought it was something cobbled together to avoid the cost of a proper windlass.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:35 PM   #25
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Al that's exactly what I have.

It's very noisy. Scares me every time I step on the switch. Has lots of power though. I pulled up a huge limb once and couldn't tell the winch was stressed at all. Didn't know it was there till I saw it.It's fussy about the angle so it would be ideal to make the mounting so that it could be adjusted some. My line rides over to port and tries to climb up the side of the drum. I still get the job done but ... Pulling speed is about perfect for me. When your'e getting tired it's not too fast and it's never too slow for me.

Oh ... I paid $425.00

Consider the Power Winch as it has a saddle shaped drum that may work better. It's not very attractive though. It's gears are typical whereas the little guy has planetary gears. I'm looking into the possibility of both winches having the same output shaft dia and maybe putting the Powerwinch drum on the little guy (can't remember it's name.)
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:20 PM   #26
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The price is probably right for that windlass, but you are making life difficult for yourself. Its a proven fact that anchors get heavier as they age...I'd buy a used one with a chain gypsy. Look for an Ideal, they have that drum on the other side so if you feel the urge you can still handraulic it. Besides, the (rude name -we need a PC name!) drum works great as a pot hauler. The Ideals are easy to service and repair and I think the motor is the starter off a 56 Chev.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:47 PM   #27
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1979 model...I have 2 sizes of chain and 250 ft rope rode. Works well but requires operation from the bow. I would much rather have an electric drum winch (with free fall), which the Aussies seem to have the jump on us on.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:37 PM   #28
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1979 model...I have 2 sizes of chain and 250 ft rope rode. Works well but requires operation from the bow. I would much rather have an electric drum winch (with free fall), which the Aussies seem to have the jump on us on.
Muir make a drum winch, but the vast majority of recreational boats use an above deck or thru deck winch, with chain/rope capable gypsy.
Even if you can operate the winch remotely, its prudent to have a person beside the winch while it runs, with override controls.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:30 PM   #29
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Muir make a drum winch, but the vast majority of recreational boats use an above deck or thru deck winch, with chain/rope capable gypsy.
Even if you can operate the winch remotely, its prudent to have a person beside the winch while it runs, with override controls.
Thanks, I understand what the vast majority use but I like the drum concept. I have looked seriously at maXtek, Universal, Savwinch, Lone Star and Muir... Most cater to the weekend fishing boats of up to 30 ft. Muir being one of the exceptions. All are quoted ex Aus, making them fairly expensive in the US and then warranty, spares availability etc make it a PITA. Most of those winches listed above can be installed in the anchor locker, out of sight, making a second person unnecessary (or so they say). It is prudent for me to stand next to my current winch as its manual feed. Just seems, a US distributor, with stock, would be mutually beneficial. They are good looking winches.
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:46 PM   #30
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dimer2, Muir have a reputation for quality and longevity. They source components for their winches worldwide, the gearbox in mine is from Italy. I checked their local website and came up with these agency details. Whether current, I can`t say.
UNITED STATES

*** For recreational windlasses and parts please contact IMTRA ***
*** For Super Yacht inquiries please contact MUIR USA OFFICE ***

MUIR USA Office
5691 SW 8th Street, Plantation
Florida 33317, UNITED STATES
International Tel +1 954 684 0629 International Fax +1 954 797 9761 Contact: Kim Mayer Email: muirusa@muir.com.au Web: www.muir.com.au Skype: kim.mayer12
Imtra Corporation (Head Office)
30 Barnet Boulevard, New Bedford, MA 02745, UNITED STATES
International Tel +1 508 995 7000 International Fax +1 508 998 5359 Contact: Jim Thomas Email: muir@imtra.com Web: www.muir.com.au
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:21 PM   #31
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1979 model...I have 2 sizes of chain and 250 ft rope rode. Works well but requires operation from the bow. I would much rather have an electric drum winch (with free fall), which the Aussies seem to have the jump on us on.
When anchoring I can't think of any other place to be but on the bow. There you can watch everything. Angle of the rode that tells fairly well where the anchor is. Watching the line tells some about what's going on down there. Feeling the line is even better. What's coming up the rode? Can't tell from the helm. Seaweed? Trees or limbs? And more often than not MUD. I can't imagine a more detached style of boating than pushing buttons from the wheelhouse. How do you know when the anchor's up? When it slams into the pulpit?

When I can't make it up to the bow to do my anchoring it's prolly time to hang up my prop and shaft.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:30 PM   #32
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We have a pressurized saltwater washdown hose at the bow to clean the chain and anchor during retrieve. That alone requires someone at the bow.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:16 AM   #33
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Oh Eric, we've had this discussion. If your boat had a proper flying bridge, you could see the anchor from the helm.

I'm not going to tell you guys what kind and size of anchor I use because you would point at me and laugh. I will say I use a combination rode with stainless steel chain. The stainless chain never brings up mud. It is rinsed clean on the way up. The galvanized anchor brings up plenty of mud, but it's hanging out over the water from the pulpit. The mud never comes aboard.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:23 AM   #34
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Manyboats says: The amount of rode stored on a reel winch is not one of their positive features unless one uses cable and in my years in Alaska I haven't seen a boat w cable. Heard of one though. To my knowledge I've not seen a reel winch w an electric motor but I know they exist. I've got one. Plath No. 5 with 12VDC motor. 300' of 1/4" 6x19 SS cable connected to 40' of 5/16" HT chain. Note that the attached pic shows the drum pulled away from the winch housing in order to service the pawl. (Probably easier to turn your computer screen! Sorry.)

One of the biggest advantages of the reel winch (RW) is that the rode is stored on deck. Yep, no smell below.

I carry 450' of 5/8" nylon for a storm rode that is in the forepeak and feeds thru the deck to the base of the winch - just unshackle the cable and attach the line to the 40' of chain.

As I see it the ideal rode can only be handled by hand or a reel winch. Have some hands-on history myself.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:17 AM   #35
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Sorry I wasn't clearer....I drop anchor when fishing and not only in a quiet cove. When its bumpy and you are using both hands to keep tension on the rode and feed it into the locker, washing it down is not going to happen. The reel I am considering holds over 350 ft of rode....How many feet do you need Eric? Here we fish in shallow, 60 -100 foot of water. And as Hopcar mentioned, it's possible to see your anchor arrive if you have either a fly bridge or raised pilot house. Detached style of boating? I would consider any time I don't have to be on the bow in a sea, a safe style of boating. But each to his own.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:46 PM   #36
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Jay,
Good to hear/talk to someone that actually has experience w cable. I considered it for my reel winch as 3 or 400' of 5/8ths nylon line won't fit on the average RW. Ever had any kinking, tangles or other problems? How bout corrosion or rusting? If you had to pull by hand it could be challenging. Have a good grip?

Hop,
Oh come on lets laugh. I'll bet my primary is weirder than yours. Most have seen it though.

Bruce,
"that alone" indeed the foredeck is the place to be.

dimmer,
"to each his own". For sure what ever works. Get er done. I like 400' rode.

Who said they needed to wax their anchor?
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:36 PM   #37
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Eric, you know a man's manhood is inversely proportional to the size of his anchor.
I have a tiny Delta anchor and a happy wife.

Anchor Wax! That's brilliant! Another expensive useless product for me to sell. I'm going to get rich on that one.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:54 PM   #38
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"Anchor Wax! That's brilliant! Another expensive useless product for me to sell. I'm going to get rich on that one."

Anchor wax with mud repelling and bottom holding additives added. Put me down for a case
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:56 PM   #39
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Dimer you've nailed it!
HopCar Anchor Wax,
Digs in Deeper, Comes Out Cleaner!
Now Fortified with Mudbegone
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:35 PM   #40
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Dimer you've nailed it!
HopCar Anchor Wax,
Digs in Deeper, Comes Out Cleaner!
Now Fortified with Mudbegone

You gonna be rich!
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