Anatomy of a Capsize (Steve Dashew video)

[MurrayM]

So, my question is, would an appropriate sea anchor have saved that vessel?

Going waaaay above my pay grade here, but I’d say yes...depending on how much room they had to drift downwind. The Captain could have also grabbed some much needed sleep.

Another option might have been to have a drogue tied to the starboard stern cleat. This would have reduced the tendency to broach and would also have kept the starboard stern quarter from being picked up so high.

How much authority does a Captain have to keep a boat in port when an owner of the vessel demands they leave?

 

[FF]

TO me it looked like the rudder was too small and the steering gear not fast enough to control the boat.

 

[daysgoneby]

Tasman Sea Crossing

Newly launched Buffalo Nickel gets slammed in crossing.
https://buffalonickelblog.com/2019/03/24/crossing-the-tasman-sea/

What strikes me most is what if your yacht had a slower cruise speed, say 6-7knots in these conditions?

 

[Mako]

Originally Posted by MYTraveler: "So, my question is, would an appropriate sea anchor have saved that vessel?"
Originally Posted by MurrayM: "Another option might have been to have a drogue tied to the starboard stern cleat."

Was just thinking about this yesterday. Spent the day off Key Biscayne fishing on a buddy's boat with the occasional roller being a solid 8ft. There were times I needed to quickly turn nose-to the big waves, and other times when I had to increase speed to 9+ knots to maintain a semblance of control while running downhill. We were trolling 4 lines, so both actions pissed my mates off, but the seas were getting sorta big for our little 30' Mainship.

Since the majority of boats behave rather badly when running, especially in huge seas then I would say it's better to drift to a parachute off the bow. Unless of course you have a double-ender or some other stern shape that has proven sea-kindly in following seas.

 

[psneeld]

I hope never to get caught in anything even remotely close to that, but my west coast travels expose me to the possibility of having to travel 200 - 300 miles in bad / worsening conditions. My plan, and I invite criticism / commentary, is to throw out the sea anchor long before I need to worry about controlling the boat's stability.

So, my question is, would an appropriate sea anchor have saved that vessel?

There was really no need for a sea anchor unless being driven towards a lee shore.....unless if that vessel turned into the seas but they became so confused it couldn't be kept bow to the waves (or jogging if necessary).


Otherwise as someone else suggested....that boat may have rode better bow into the seas in this case.



Running before the wave like it was....a drogue may have helped and prevented the broach...but experimenting in lesser sea should have been part of the equation...but life isn't perfect sometimes.



As I posted before, the boat wasn't riding bad until the confused seas...and even the commentary in the video suggests it was the confused seas that did it in I think.

 

[MYTraveler]

There was really no need for a sea anchor unless ....

As I posted before, the boat wasn't riding bad until the confused seas...and even the commentary in the video suggests it was the confused seas that did it in I think.

Its not just the seas that are confused -- I am too. Since the boat broached something went wrong. Perhaps that something could have been prevented in other ways, but would an appropriately-sized sea anchor (deployed in the normal way -- off the bow) have been one way to protect this boat in those conditions?

 

[psneeld]

Its not just the seas that are confused -- I am too. Since the boat broached something went wrong. Perhaps that something could have been prevented in other ways, but would an appropriately-sized sea anchor (deployed in the normal way -- off the bow) have been one way to protect this boat in those conditions?

Sorry my last post wasn't clear....if you have power to keep the bow where you want it into the seas, and you are not being driven towards land...a sea anchor really isn't needed.


If having trouble keeping the bow to the seas...a minor drogue off the bow may be all you need as a sea anchor is overwhelming force and can be a handful....


Using one should only be attempted if being driven ashore as deploying, managing and recovering one is a giant PIA from most reports.


I have always said survival tactics are BS to a point. What works for one boat in one set of conditions may not work in others and not for other boats. Guessing up front before a storm hits you from by knowing how your boat reacts in bad conditions may be the only thing that save you.

 

[Wxx3]

As Dave notes, its a seiner,, a "Kodiak" seiner I believe, not a trawler. These boats don't draw much water.
A couple of things. I have seen the footage many times and have spent time in that area on larger boats, tugs with tows. Noted above, too much weight up high, put the block on deck and lash it down, lower the boom, lash it down. Any weight that can be moved down, move it. He could have ditched the seine skiff on the stern, that's a lot of weight there and he might have had quicker, less sluggish return from each roll.

Should have turned into the sea and hove to. He would have rode it out safely in all likelihood. That's pretty snotty weather for a relatively small boat running before it.

Yep. That's what I think also.
From the beginning the boat seemed very tender and not that controllable.
Too much weight high up.

Other factors were involved.

 

[oscar]

How much authority does a Captain have to keep a boat in port when an owner of the vessel demands they leave?

"Sir (Mam), with all due respect I cannot in good conscience accept this mission. We either wait it out or you find yourself another Captain to do this."

After that you either wait, and then do the mission and get paid, or you go look for another job. Either way you live to fight another day.

No owner is worth dying for.

 

[Portage_Bay]

.......
How much authority does a Captain have to keep a boat in port when an owner of the vessel demands they leave?

By law a captain has full authority and full responsibility. But.... owners apply pressure and a captain needs to worry about keeping his job. It seems to me in the fishing industry the pressure is worse than other industries. The risk of losing the job worse.

 

[Wayfarer]

How much authority does a Captain have to keep a boat in port when an owner of the vessel demands they leave?

"Sir (Mam), with all due respect I cannot in good conscience accept this mission. We either wait it out or you find yourself another Captain to do this."

After that you either wait, and then do the mission and get paid, or you go look for another job. Either way you live to fight another day.

No owner is worth dying for.

By law a captain has full authority and full responsibility. But.... owners apply pressure and a captain needs to worry about keeping his job. It seems to me in the fishing industry the pressure is worse than other industries. The risk of losing the job worse.

I can only speak of my own small experience, but I have never been pressured by my company to move when I didn't think I should. I have no doubt that it can and does happen to others, but I've been lucky. Most of the pressure to try and keep the operation moving comes from my own nagging mind. Ultimately it's my choice, and my responsibility. I've ended up out in a few situations where I wish I'd stayed in port, but nothing as dangerous as this example. All I can do is try and learn from that, and roll the dice with the accuracy of the forecasts.

Any company that tells me I should go out when I know I shouldn't, is a company that I would be happy to quit. I would rather be unemployed than dead, or worse, a murderer.

 

[Wxx3]

I recall that VHS tape being played during stability training. It made me queasy to see it then and still does today.

For another take on what / why read this article.

Fishing boat capsizes, sinks

Thanks.
Here is the pertinent information from the above link:

:...Some of the best discussion of the incident comes from an online forum for WoodenBoat magazine.
One forum poster claimed to have spoken with the marine safety official who interviewed the skipper and came away with these facts:

There was never a mention of engine trouble, running on auxiliary power, or not having sufficient power to maintain steerage.
The transom of the seine skiff and the seine net had shifted to port, depressing that side.
The boat had an empty hold, except for the net.
The seine block had not been lowered to the deck to reduce the center of gravity.
The boat was not designed to handle those conditions.
The owner of the boat (in Cordova) had called the skipper and urged him to cross the Gulf of AK from Icy Bay to Prince William Sound, even though the weather conditions were bad. The rest of the seine fleet decided to wait out the weather in Icy Bay.
The skipper hand steered for many hours and was exhausted. He turned the helm over to an inexperienced crew member who decided to engage the auto pilot, and within a few minutes the boat broached and went over.
..."

Empty hold. Seine block aloft. Autopilot.
Nuff said.