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Old 03-31-2010, 02:35 PM   #1
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Am I crazy????????

This is what has been keeping me up the past 2 weeks. *I have our boat listed with a local broker. *He was showing one of his clients a Californian 42 MY. *The owner of the C42 was on board at the time and mumbled something under his breath that if he could find a local Mainship 30 Pilot, that he would trade straight up. *Well, my broker approached me with this deal. *Of course the first things that go thru my mind are insurance and slip fees as well as "will the bank do it" since they hold the note on our boat. *Insurance came in pretty reasonably with all things considered but it was still 2.5x what we are paying now. *Slip fees would go up as well. *I figgered it would be a solid 300ish bucks more per month(at least) before the boat even moves. *And then you have to throw in fuel burn and maintenance on top of that(twin 3208s with a 12kw gen). *Realistically, that C42 is worth $30k...ish more than my boat. *I have always been a huge fan of the longevity and reliability of the 3208s. *But maintaining them really hit home when I went into the engine room and saw the massiveness of those things....

Anyway, we turned the offer down. *The bank was willing to do it but not under the terms I would have been happy with....which means I would have had to choke up a good bit of liquid cash to get the deal done(brokerage fees, etc.). *Cash I did not want to have to dig up. *Also, and this is probably the biggest reason, that boat I feel was just a bit much for us as a couple. *We like to do a lot of daytripping. *I have had my boat out 3 times in the last 4 days. *With the C42, it would have been ZERO times. *I do not think twice about taking my boat out by myself. *I don't think I would feel comfortable at all taking that boat out by myself.


Ultimately, we do want a bigger boat and had the bank come through with the deal that I wanted(they were surprisingly close), we might have done it. *We generally gravitate towards boats in the 36-38 range. *We maybe would go to 40ft. *That C42 was a very BIG 42ft with a 15'3" beam!!!! *Anyway, we want a boat that we would feel a little more comfortable with. *I am sure I would have learned how to deal with this one but it was still so big that it would have restricted our spontaneous day trips.


As I have always said with cars(and boats in this case)....there is no right price for the wrong boat!!!!




So am I crazy???


I know there is a valid argument *that says we could have gone through with it and turned a profit by flipping it.....but there is still risk involved in that theory.....


I hope I don't regret this one!!!


PS....for you folks looking for money for a boat, give your credit union a chance. *They have the note on my current boat and that is who I was working with on this deal. *They use their own money so they look at deals on a case by case basis versus some random numbers and "hoops" that marine lenders usually use. *I am pretty sure a "classic" marine lender would have laughed at me with what I was proposing. *They have laughed at me in the past when it was a "classic" deal and my numbers were good.
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:22 PM   #2
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Mr. Baker,
Don't second guess your gut reaction. You've crunched the numbers and didn't feel comfortable with the size. Just my $.02
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:08 PM   #3
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Am I crazy????????

Quote:
Baker wrote:I hope I don't regret this one!!!

John:
Being an old Pilot 30 owner and an ex 42 Ocean Alex with 3208s, I'm laying odds that you will regret passing on the deal. A 42' with twin engines is a piece of cake to drive. Possibly easier than the Pilot with a bow thruster.

My first big boat was a Crealock 48, hull #1. (Now called an Offshore Yacht Fisher.) Although I was at first intimidated by the 48's size, one outing and the fear went away. I then wanted something faster, 3208 engines, two staterooms and 20knt cruise. (Fuel was 67cents a gallon) and I bought the 42 Ocean Alex. 5 boats later, my wife and I still wish we had kept the Ocean Alex.

My best friend has a 1988 Californian 48 with a California deck and a small cockpit for fishing. They use this boat quite a bit as it has 3700 hours on it and it was purchased new. I don't know anything about the 42 Californian but there are sure a lot of them in my area.

48' 1988 Californian Yacht Fish


*


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 31st of March 2010 05:10:41 PM
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:43 PM   #4
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John:
As a side note and not being a full fledged Guru but rather a self proclaimed "expert", I would like to comment on the Ocean Alexander 42 Sedan. 2 staterooms (the guest SR is side by side) master is an island queen, helms both up and down or just throttles, shifters and an auto pilot as the down helm, 375 cats, a great cockpit and a killer salon with the up galley forward. SS fuel & Water tanks, PE waste tank, generator, etc. I cruised mine at 20 kts most of the time. In my opinion, the best boat out of 8 I've owned.

This is not a photo of my boat but it is a 1988 OA 42' Sedan



-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Wednesday 31st of March 2010 05:46:07 PM
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:50 PM   #5
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RE: Am I crazy????????

John,I gotta agree with RTF. When you find the right boat you will know it..


I had looked at a 40' Vista, same vintage as the 42 CA and fell in love with the huge teak sundeck. The admiral said no-way. Her argument was that it would be such a production to get this boat underway, we would never go out in it. Nuff said.


We currently have under contract a 35 Carver, late 90's. The newer boats do seem to have more room for the same footage without the higher slippage, bottom paint, bottom cleaning, etc.


My broker passed along some good advice. Buy the newest boat you can afford and you won't be disappointed. That 87 CA is a beautiful boat, but those engines are pushing 25 years! If you keep it 6 years it will be like trying to sell an '82 boat today. Yikes!
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:56 PM   #6
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Am I crazy????????

Quote:
Baker wrote:

*


So am I crazy???

*I don't think so.* Not because of the boat involved or the engines (I thought 3208s were prone to some problems?) or the numbers you came up with.* But because your gut told you it was not the rignt move to make at this time.

I'm a big believer in "gut feelings."* I've been in situations where it seemed to make all sorts of sense to do such-and-such, but "something" about it just didn't sit right, so I didn't.* And in all the cases I can recall, it proved to be the right decision.

I'm not talking about being nervous about the deal.* When we bought our GB it was a major step for us--- we'd never plunked down so much money for a single item before, plus all the on-going costs we knew we'd have--- so we were rightly nervous and questioning about doing it.* But if never felt wrong to get into this kind of boating or get*the boat we did.* We just realized that we were taking on a major investment, not only in money but in time, and this can be sobering.* But the positives of getting the boat outweighed the negatives--- actually, they weren't even negatives, they were just "realities"--- by quite a margin.* And the bottom line for me, anyway, was that it "felt" like the right thing to do.

Even if we never see a dime back on our purchase and ongoing expenses, it will have been worth it to both of us.

There are a zillion boats out there for sale, and more come up all the time.* It's not like your life depends on your changing boats by next Tuesday.* So keep looking, stick to your definition of what you actually want and need, and the right boat will come along.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 31st of March 2010 07:00:03 PM
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:58 PM   #7
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

...not being a full fledged Guru but rather a self proclaimed "expert",
I believe the only thing that designates "guru" status is the number of posts one sends to the forum.

*
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:38 PM   #8
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Seahorse, I love that OA42 Sedan. And I might have not got my point across. I really wasn't intimidated by the operation or size of the boat....it just would have forced us into "acting differently" reference our boating. I was really more afraid of the initial liquidity that I would have had to sacrifice AND the increase in fixed monthly expenses AND the increase in operating costs AND the increase in maintenance that I would have to do...much less pay for. I am probably the biggest Californian fan on here and quite possibly the biggest 3208 fan...they are excellent engines. That is what made this such a crazy situation for me to walk away from. It just didn't feel right. My wife that is usually gung ho about everything of this nature also had pause....and we were on the same page so that helped a lot. It was funny because there were definitely parts of the puzzle we really liked. Right now she complains that she doesn't really have a place to keep a bathing suit on board our boat...and she wears small suits....lol.... so the space would have been VERY VERY nice. She is also the line handler and there really isn't a good way to handle lines on a sundeck.....and the size of the sundeck compounds this. I mean, you obviously get it done but it IS a compromise for that style of boat.

Going forward, we will likely get a sundeck. If we could find the right sedan we would do that but there just aren't that many that fit our criteria and the ones that do are beyond our price range. One of the Sedans that I like is the Hatteras 36 Sedan Cruiser. An interesting boat in that Hatteras took their 36 foot sportfish and lengthened the deckhouse making the salon bigger and the cockpit smaller. So their target market was cruisers and not fishermen....no fishboxes or baitstations or anything like that. See pic below. Anyway, haven't really got a good reaction from the admiral on that one the boat isn't that handsome in pictures but does look better in person. We also have to come to grips with whether we wanna have the ability to get on plane. I think I like to go faster but if the right slowboat came along, we would do it. We do love the Heritage East Sundecks. *See pic below...damn good looking boat in my opinion.... *Heck, I am a fan of the boat that Timjet has under contract.....a very good looking boat with a lot going for it. *Oh well, gotta get this one sold first anyway....and that is what was so attractive about this deal...it would make our boat go away and get us into something similar to what we were looking for.....
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:46 PM   #9
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RE: Am I crazy????????

I too think you made the right choice. When searching fo rthe "right boat" I looked seriously at a 42 Ca and rejected it. There are many boats out there that age better, go better, look better, and don't cost any more. If the difference was only 30k, to your mainship, the difference for a nicer 42 trawler won't be any more than that, and you may just find a deal you like.

Don't be put off of a 42 as being too much boat. What is "too much" is a purely subjective measure. Some couples handle 65 feet or more without any difficulty, some have troubles at far less of a boat. Those who do have troubles, do so because of their own lack of confidence, and rarely is it because of the physical size of the boat. Whatever you get used to becomes "normal".
So choose your boat for all the things you want to do in it, all the things you want it to carry, where you want to go, at what speed, and what you can afford, not for its length.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:07 PM   #10
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Quote:
koliver wrote:So choose your boat for all the things you want to do in it, all the things you want it to carry, where you want to go, at what speed, and what you can afford, not for its length.
They say boats are like planes--- the bigger they are the easier they are to fly.

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Old 03-31-2010, 10:34 PM   #11
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RE: Am I crazy????????

JohnAlthough you may in fact be crazy (I'm not a good judge), I totally respect your decision, specifically for the fact that you wouldn't use it in the way you currently enjoy. There are larger boats that single hand very well.
Good choice, Carey
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:20 AM   #12
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RE: Am I crazy????????

baker

4 years ago I looked at a 52 Californian with the high HP 3208s. (475 HP?). The boat had been boathouse kept in FW in Portland its entire life and had very low hours. But, it was not a seaboat. It was a marginal coastal cruiser. It was what FF calls a roomeran. It would not be a good inside passage vessel, too much windage and too high a CG. It was later rebadged a Carver. The engines were too spiked up and prone to writeins on boatdiesel .com. It was a good deal because no serious boater wanted it. It had too much core and marginal FRP hull thickness.*It was a fairweather boat. It was a party boat and thats all. I'm a Norwegian by ancestry. I moved on. Never looked back. Bought a boat made for the big water.

Sooner or later the bikini life will pass you by, You are are getting ready it seems.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:21 AM   #13
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Sunchaser, I was with all the way until your last sentence!!!!!...
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:30 AM   #14
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Baker* --* *A Delta pilot buddy of mine is on his 3rd generation of bikini babes. What is it with you guys? What a life.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:23 AM   #15
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RE: Am I crazy????????

I had a 1989 Californian 45 (the 52 without the cockpit) for over 8 years. I cruised it from Galveston to Booth Bay Harbor, Maine. I can testify that it is an excellent coastal cruiser. It cuts through the chop and will get up and go if needed. It had the 6-71 upgrade engines. It rolled a little in a following sea and one time in a Norheaster in Buzzard's Bay, MA it took me through some extremly rough seas. I loved the ride. Unless you've owned a boat or have some serious first hand knowledge you should not belittle it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:27 AM   #16
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RE: Am I crazy????????

I agree Doc. I have always been a fan of the Californian line. They are extremely well built boats and for the most part, highly regarded. I have never heard of that part about "all core and thin glass". They are always much heavier than most boats of their size....which is likely due to a thicker glass job. Did you begin your journey from Kemah....and if so, what marina were you in down here??? I just remember a Detroit powered C45 that took off to go cruising from my marina(H dock at the Boardwalk Marina) about 10? years ago....I helped him untie the lines for the last time.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #17
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RE: Am I crazy????????

That was me on Fenix Sunday. We left on Feb 1, 2002. What boat did you have? I remember Miles, Mervin and the late Clarence plus the idiot dentist who built the safe house inside his sailboat with 2 x 4's after 9-11.

All core and thin glass is utter BS. Again someone who does not have experience. They are cored above the water line and in the decks and house. The bottom is very thick solid glass. I bored several holes and kept the cores to show people how thick it was.

We liked the boat because the interior and the aft deck were huge. It was very well built, too. Things fit, nothing rattled or shook and after a little rough seas, you did not have to put everything back in the cabinets.

The boat is heavy and has a 15 degree deadrise. There is no keel. That gives a great ride in a chop but if you barely bump the bottom it will ding the props. On my current boat I just say "oops" and keep on going.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:51 AM   #18
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Small world!!! I was not on H dock....I had just talked to you a few times and happened to be around the day you left. I was on F dock....the boat was "Prairie Dog"....a Prairie 29. The last I have seen Miles was a coupla years ago.....he was determined to take "Lone Star" around Cape Horn and he likely succeeded although that is not confirmed. I think Mervin was gonna join him for segments of the trip. The owner had since passed and it kinda left Miles in limbo. Anyway, I honestly don't know his status right now other than he is "out there".
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:00 PM   #19
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RE: Am I crazy????????

Doc:

Further to my comments, I made the mistake of talking to an owner of a CA 55 who sold his vessel because it did not do well on Georgia Strait or*QC Sound - where I boat.*Baker asked a question, I answered. I was gentle. I really looked the 52 over and got comments from the CA builder too. I note you bought a*NT Doc - good choice.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:59 PM   #20
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RE: Am I crazy????????

No problem, tg, although having owned one is better than asking the owner a question, IMHO. And I consider myself a serious boater.

MIles is taking Lone Star around the world again. Last time I heard he had rounded the horn and was in Brazil headed toward Africa.

The web site is www.lonestarcapehorn.com
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