Almost time to bottom paint

[psneeld]

Scott, you've got as much or probably a heck of a lot more east coast experience as anyone here. How common are DIY boat yards? In my part of California they exist but are as rare as rocking horse crap.

Craig...there are many yards up and down the coast that let you DIY.

Becoming more popular is charging a daily rate and certain fees for you doing your own work.

Most every yard around me in NJ allows some if not all DIY, and the farther you get away from tight a**ed populated areas....the easier and cheaper it usually is. I have been to dozens of yards all along this coast that allows DIY to some degree...I have kept a eye open as I never know when I will have to use one for major repairs that I couldn't afford elsewhere.

For the misinformed that think there is a lot of prep work involved with bottom painting...they haven't done it in awhile, used modern paints or just don't know for some reason.

I pressure wash the day I haul, I paint the next day...1 or 2 coats.

Zero prep other than pressure washing. Zero pain problems on my and many other oats I have done through the years.... used to hate to see the yards painting in foggy or misting weather only to have the paint fail halfway through the summer.

So there's about an hour of prep work (pressure washing that is done whether painting or not). Then about 2 hours to 3 hours for the first coat...depending on a few things...then about an hour for the second with another 30 minutes or so for the additional on the waterline and prop wash areas, plus under the stands.

So I would say for me and many others done at the marinas I have worked at...thinking prep work (except a primer coat on a new boat) is incorrect by a long shot.

Now...as I have said before...different boats, different captains, different usage, different paints all play into what you may have to or not have to do....it all depends.

But for DANG sure, the best paint for your particular use doesn't have to be in the upper half of expensive.....but it might.....DEPENDING.....

And the only way to know that is a lot of research or experience.

 

[rwidman]

I think the point was to select paint based on the application, not simply on price. For some things, "more expensive" isn't always "better" for a given application. If you were to build a house you could use No. 1 Prime 2x4 for your studs, but No. 3 would work just as well for a lot less money.

If you were paying a painter to prep and paint your house would you use the three year paint or the ten year paint? Or even if you were doing it yourself?

The OP had a quote of nearly $6K. Obviously, the marina feels it's necessary to do more than roll a coat of $100 paint on.

 

[psneeld]

true, she is having the bottom taken down to gel coat.....the paint isn't the real issue.


and knowing which $100 paint works as well as the $250 paint is the trick...

 

[rwidman]

Okey-dokey, it's almost time to bottom paint.

Tell me what is the best bottom paint around and can I mix a custom color?

If color is important to you, the non copper based paints have brighter colors. Mixing or custom colors is probably best asked of the manufacturer.

 

[rwidman]

That's my thought as well. Old wives tales never die, they just take on new forms.

With all the research people the paint companies have, I can't help wondering why they haven't thought of adding more ground up copper or hot pepper to their paints.

 

[rwidman]

and knowing which $100 paint works as well as the $250 paint is the trick...

So why don't you be a lamb and tell us all which one?

 

[Baker]

Except when you don't use an ablative paint.

Absolutely not true. While hard paints are not designed to slough off, they are subject to the rigors of ablation/abrasion at the waterline. Especially in a boat that runs at planing speeds.

 

[psneeld]

So why don't you be a lamb and tell us all which one?

Post #30

"I don't suggest any bottom paint without knowing a lot of details.

My Fiberglass Bottomkote NT by Interlux works for my boat and cruising style and have been getting it for less than $100 / gallon after spring rebates. "

But this paint isn't for all...just me and maybe many others.

 

[silentfaith]

you smart asses won't get my advice anymore. go ahead and buy paint that the makers put just enough chemicals to last a year so you can buy more.

 

[BruceK]

If the job costs $6K the cost of the paint becomes incidental.
I specified Jotun Seaguardian when the yard did my boat, the guy doing the work commented how much heavier in weight the paint was, compared to their usual paint. Which hopefully means more "anti" stuff in the paint, and better longer lasting a/f, which is my experience. But for every good report, there may be another negative one.

 

[psneeld]

If the job costs $6K the cost of the paint becomes incidental.
I specified Jotun Seaguardian when the yard did my boat, the guy doing the work commented how much heavier in weight the paint was, compared to their usual paint. Which hopefully means more "anti" stuff in the paint, and better longer lasting a/f, which is my experience. But for every good report, there may be another negative one.

Certainly the copper would be up is my guess if it is heavier...but so many now are adding other ingredients that are biocides....I truly wonder what is more effective????

For the copper free paints...I would think they are much lighter...which after several hours of slinging a 5 pound roller (at least it feels that heavy)...switching to a copper free paint sounds too good to be true.

 

[78puget-trawler]

I would ask the fishies what color they like because they are the ones that will it most often. This thread is full of funnies though. In the colder waters of my area, which paint isn't really all that important. I nearly fainted last year when I got some quotes per gallon of various paints. I think in the end we went with a commercial grade paint at just over $100 a gallon. I spent a lot of money on repairs and upgrades and the bottom job and prop work, shaft out, rudder stuffing rebuild, stuffing box, new thru hull, eng hoses, etc. etc. Got out of the yard for less than that 6K Donna was quoted. I would really like to see the list of the work to be done. Seems a tad high. And to echo others be very cautious around old bottom paint work. I got so sick once years ago when we were refastening an old large fishboat in Seattle I was out for a week. We did a lot of sanding on the bottom in the process and all we wore were nose bra's, which are not all that great. Its nasty stuff to work around.

 

[fstbttms]

Absolutely not true. While hard paints are not designed to slough off, they are subject to the rigors of ablation/abrasion at the waterline. Especially in a boat that runs at planing speeds.

Lotta trawlers and sailboats run at planing speeds do they?

 

[rwidman]

Lotta trawlers and sailboats run at planing speeds do they?

I've had mine up to twelve knots a few times. Of course the current was moving at five knots at the time.

 

[ranger58sb]

true, she is having the bottom taken down to gel coat.....

Ah. I must have missed that...

-Chris

 

[Donna]

Thank you psneeld. Yes I am having it taken down to the gel coat and having some minor blisters repaired.

Now, with that said, I simply do not care about the "cost" of the paint. I just wanted to ask what type, manufacturer, do ya'll use and why? I can certainly make my own final decision.

Sigh....I didn't mean to start a controversy.

 

[CPseudonym]

Pffft Donna, what controversy?

We are not even to 100 posts on the subject yet. Controversy does not creep into a thread until post 300 or so. We've a long ways to go yet.

 

[Donna]

Pffft Donna, what controversy?

We are not even to 100 posts on the subject yet. Controversy does not creep into a thread until post 300 or so. We've a long ways to go yet.

LOL!

 

[Chrisjs]

Just for reference, attached is a published yard price list. It lists prices for bottom painting (varies from $33-48/ft depending on paint type) and stripping ($175/ft). Applying their prices to a 36ft vessel, you can easily get to way more than Donna was quoted. That even does not include prop work. I thought soda blasting was more like $50/ft.
I do know that ten years ago when I purchased my 50ft Selene it cost more than $6K for hand scraping the bottom, barrier coating 2x, and 2x coats of Micron at Ft. Lauderdale Marine.

Palm Beach Yacht Center and Marina

 

[Baker]

Lotta trawlers and sailboats run at planing speeds do they?

A lot of boats on this forum do...and it still happens at displacement speeds... There...4 rolleyes!!!....

 

[fstbttms]

A lot of boats on this forum do...and it still happens at displacement speeds... There...4 rolleyes!!!....

Sorry chief, but hard paints do not wear off or ablate or whatever you're claiming they do, at the waterline or anywhere else. 22 years and 30,000 hull cleanings experience talking here.

 

[BandB]

Palm Beach Yacht Center and Marina

Donna, I'd suggest any of the paints in the Plan 3 column shown there, depending on whether you ultimately choose hard or ablative. As a DIY job, i would not try the Micron 66.

 

[jimL]

We have a new to us 2005 MS 430 trawler. It's starting to look like it needs bottom paint. How to I determine what is on there now?

Jim

 

[fstbttms]

Do you have a hull cleaner? An experienced one can give you a pretty good idea.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

That's my thought as well. Old wives tales never die, they just take on new forms.

With all the research people the paint companies have, I can't help wondering why they haven't thought of adding more ground up copper or hot pepper to their paints.

Well they do add more copper.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

http://www.yachtpaint.com/LiteratureCentre/antifouling_101_usa_eng.pdf

 

[BandB]

http://www.yachtpaint.com/LiteratureCentre/antifouling_101_usa_eng.pdf

Excellent document. One thing we tend to do is call paints ablative or hard and there are in fact many variations as that document points out.

 

[Chrisjs]

I do not think it really matters what brand of paint has been used previously, though I am sure the paint sellers would disagree. The only thing to determine is whether the previous paint is hard or soft (ablative). It is easy to tell the difference. Ablative paint will rub off easily with a wet cloth. Hard paint will not.
You can paint soft over hard but not hard over soft. If you want to change to hard from soft, first remove the soft completely. After determining hard/soft, then decide which paint is best for your boating conditions and wallet size.

 

[rwidman]

Well they do add more copper.

Now that's just dumb. They have worked out a formula that works best and that's the amount of copper and other things they put in the paint. They don't "add more copper".

 

[Gabe n Em]

Great thread and very timely! Thanks Donna! We're hauling out on Saturday for through hull replacements and a couple coats of ablative (sorry fastbottom, we don't have the $$ to make the switch to hard right now).

WesK and others: invertebrates, such as many of the fouling organisms on our hulls, cannot tolerate high concentrations of copper - it's something about their development but I forget what exactly. I'm sure google could tell you. I imagine the main reason they don't put MORE into our paints is it's expensive - over $2/lb just as scrap.