Almost time to bottom paint

[Comodave]

On our last boat, a Trojan F32, we had the yard soda blast the bottom. It cost $35 foot and was a smoking deal since there was a very thick layer of old paint. I painted it with epoxy barrier coat. Interlux said to use 5 gallons of epoxy to get the recommended thickness so I used 6 gallons just in case. Then put on 2 coats of bottom paint with a 3rd around the waterline. They moved my boat onto my driveway for the painting. I was fabricating a full flybridge enclosure at the same time. The painting was easy since it was on the concrete drive I could use a mechanics creeper to roll around under the boat. I probably had about 16 to 20 hours in the epoxy and bottom painting all together. The paint cost about $900.

 

[Chrisjs]

Donna
Figure that even if you do the work, the paint and supplies will likely cost you about $1500 (figure at least 5 gallons at $250 for 2 coats), plus a lot of beer for the helpers (assuming they stay around to finish the job). Trust me, if the bottom needs sanding as well as painting, I would pay the yard. And despite other comments, still consider the barrier coating.

 

[psneeld]

Again...many variables.

Suitable bottom paint can be had for less than $100 per gallon.

My 40 can get 2 coats easily with 4 gallons of paint with a third coat on waterline and prop wash areas.

I can usually put 2 coats on in a day, but often spread them over 2 while I do other things. The second coat with a long handle for the rolled and I don't even have to get on the ground except for a little bit....takes a little over an hour to do.

Sanding is not required for ablative paints...just a good pressure washing.. Can't say for other paints, would never use any other. I havent sanded 3 boats in 30 years with flawless results...plus the 2 marinas I have worked at never sand unless the application requires it.

Barrier coats can actually be bad if the bottom isn't ready for one..both in prep and drying. It takes more than a glance or moisture meter reading to know.

Too many variables to go with just random suggestions.

 

[O C Diver]

My yard wants $5,900.00

You could get the boat sandblasted to the gel coat, barrier coated, and bottom painted at my yard on Chesapeake Bay and have enough money left over for the trip up and back for $6K. I may be exaggerating a little, but that price seems really high.

Ted

 

[Chrisjs]

Not sure what type of paint can be had for $100/gal. Petit and Micron sell for about $260+, may be $200 in the Spring on sale. What type do you suggest?

 

[Comodave]

Has anyone tried the Total Boat paint from Jamestown Distributers yet? One nice thing about Total Boat is free shipping. I just used some of the TB polyester resin and liked it ok.

 

[BruceK]

I`d like to see a breakdown of that $5900 quote. Near had a breakdown myself at the $ total. Standard charge here, I just paid, hauling, water blasting and reasonable prep, undercoat touch up,2 coats a/f, incl hard a/f on running gear, $46 per foot. Plus anodes and anything out of the ordinary, like lots of manual shell removal.
If they are going back to bare f/g, maybe, but otherwise, too much.
We did a full underneath dry machine sand, disgusting, filthy, lie on back on planks, job. A full day each side, for 2. Would not recommend it to my best/worst enemy.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure what type of paint can be had for $100/gal. Petit and Micron sell for about $260+, may be $200 in the Spring on sale. What type do you suggest?

I don't suggest any bottom paint without knowing a lot of details.

My Fiberglass Bottomkote NT by Interlux works for my boat and cruising style and have been getting it for less than $100 / gallon after spring rebates.

 

[Tom.B]

This professional hull cleaner only ever recommends two anti fouling paints; Pettit Trinidad (hard) and Interlux Micron 66 (hybrid ablative.) Two coats everywhere and a third at the waterline.

I'd like to take advantage of a teachable moment here. What is the specific reason for more coats at the waterline? What happens at the waterline that doesn't happen anywhere else? That said, one of the paint types (and you will have to pardon me as I don't remember which) looses it's ability to work at all when not under water. So what good does extra layers there do at all?

Thanks for the lesson... I hope.

 

[Chrisjs]

I think the only logical reason for more at the water line is to allow more cleaning while still retaining ant-fouling capability. You are correct about non-ablatives needing to be kept wet but would guess water line does not mean "dry" .

 

[ranger58sb]

My yard wants $5,900.00

That'd be about $3K higher than we last paid at our yard (Spring, 2015)... and our total included the hauling, powerwashing, blocking, new zincs, a (single) whole coat of bottom paint (over existing), removing/replacing props (for outside reconditioning), Barnacle Barrier on the underwater hardware and props, and relaunching.

Multiple coats of new paint could account for some of that, but perhaps their estimate includes something additional? Soda blasting, barrier coat, etc? Or...?

Or maybe they're just high?

Around here, if a quote seems out of line, we can always just go to the marina next door... or the one next door to that... or... etc.

-Chris

 

[CPseudonym]

Or maybe they're just high?

^^This^^

$6,000 is almost half way to a two pack hull paint job on a boat her size. Pardon me but any hack 18 year old kid can slop bottom paint on a hull. No skill required just a young back and shoulders.

 

[rwidman]

Without knowing exactly what is being done, any comments on the cost are meaningless. I would suggest getting at least two other quotes though. And make sure all the quotes are for identical work.


As for $100 per gallon paint, you get what you pay for and considering the cost or effort to prepare the bottom for painting, going cheap on the paint seems foolish to me.

 

[Chrisjs]

You are right that it does not take a lot of skill to apply bottom paint, but the yards have you by the short hairs!! My marina gave me two options - do it yourself (literally - and I did it 2x) or pay us at $95/hr plus full price paint (no Spring discounts). They did not allow "friends" to work on boats - only their own contractors. Another reason why I no longer have a boat - got sick and tired of being ripped off and given the run-around by marinas that do not respect customers. Made to use their services but then have to get in line (long) to receive those sub-standard services, compared to what I could accomplish through the independents. End of rant!!

 

[psneeld]

Foolish?....Not at all, my paint holds up as well as the $250 dollar stuff... for MY application.

Sounds smart to me.

That's the difference in living and working in the boating world and just visiting.

 

[CPseudonym]

Foolish?....Not at all, my paint holds up as well as the $250 dollar stuff... for MY application.

Sounds smart to me.

That's the difference in living and working in the boating world and just visiting.

Scott, you've got as much or probably a heck of a lot more east coast experience as anyone here. How common are DIY boat yards? In my part of California they exist but are as rare as rocking horse crap.

 

[Obx]

I think the only logical reason for more at the water line is to allow more cleaning while still retaining ant-fouling capability. You are correct about non-ablatives needing to be kept wet but would guess water line does not mean "dry" .

Just my 2 cents worth but the reason for more at waterline is it's exposed to sunlight which will degrade any preservation.

 

[rwidman]

Foolish?....Not at all, my paint holds up as well as the $250 dollar stuff... for MY application.

Sounds smart to me.

That's the difference in living and working in the boating world and just visiting.

It applies to painting a house as well. It applies to any labor intensive task, on land or on the water. Don't cheap out on the materials when labor is much of the price.

Even a caveman knows that.

 

[fstbttms]

I'd like to take advantage of a teachable moment here. What is the specific reason for more coats at the waterline? What happens at the waterline that doesn't happen anywhere else?

The waterline is exposed to more sunlight and warmer temperatures than any other part of the wetted hull. Therefore it typically fouls more (and faster) than other areas of the hull. Because of that, it frequently requires more agressive cleaning than other areas of the hull. So adding product thickness and additional biocide to this part of the hull makes sense. Further, the waterline is going to be subject to more floating objects, dirt, chemicals etc., so having more paint there can only help.

 

[silentfaith]

3 years and still good on my boat. i use sea hawk cucote bottom paint. has high copper in it and i add additional copper powder to it, i also add samples of x hot pepper powder to it. use a piece of carpet to wipe couple times a year or go to lowes and buy a floor buffer pad, get the white round one for 6 bucks. it is what we captains use in the keys.

 

[dhays]

It applies to painting a house as well. It applies to any labor intensive task, on land or on the water. Don't cheap out on the materials when labor is much of the price.

Even a caveman knows that.

I think the point was to select paint based on the application, not simply on price. For some things, "more expensive" isn't always "better" for a given application. If you were to build a house you could use No. 1 Prime 2x4 for your studs, but No. 3 would work just as well for a lot less money.

 

[fstbttms]

i add additional copper powder to it, i also add samples of x hot pepper powder to it.

 

[Chrisjs]

My boat was hauled annually for Winter storage. The bottom was pressure washed at that time once a year. The bottom did not require cleaning during the season. OTH, the prop needed cleaning 2-3x per season, which I did myself using a hookah type system.
The year we went to the Bahamas, the bottom did not get cleaned for a full 18 months at the next haul out. I did periodically clean the scum line with a soft brush.
There really is no reason to get anal about your bottom!!

 

[Chrisjs]

Perhaps we should cross-reference type of bottom paint with preferred anchor size and type, just to really expand this thread!!!!

 

[ranger58sb]

You are right that it does not take a lot of skill to apply bottom paint, but the yards have you by the short hairs!! My marina gave me two options - do it yourself (literally - and I did it 2x) or pay us at $95/hr plus full price paint (no Spring discounts). They did not allow "friends" to work on boats - only their own contractors. Another reason why I no longer have a boat - got sick and tired of being ripped off and given the run-around by marinas that do not respect customers. Made to use their services but then have to get in line (long) to receive those sub-standard services, compared to what I could accomplish through the independents. End of rant!!

Around here, MD and the EPA in turn have the marinas by the short hairs. In order to maintain "MD Clean Marina" certification, they have to leap through some significant hoops themselves (e.g., catchment facilities for run-off from powerwashing, etc.)...

So while DIY is generally OK at our place, and outside contractors are generally welcome (with insurance and so forth), there are some functions (powerwashing, sanding bottoms, etc.) that they restrict.

Not necessarily a bad thing; I'm not clear on the science (that might be) behind the regs... but in any case we just have to pony up our share and chalk it up to "that's boating."

And they do a much better job than I could (would) do myself; even with friends, I'd be sore for months. (Ask my "tennis elbows" and "Milwaukee shoulders" -- both plural -- how I know...)

-Chris

 

[koliver]

I usually haul annually. Over the years I have had anywhere from no growth at all to a good thick slime coating with very few barnacles in the upper portion, to heavy barnacle growth and some mussels and oysters down on the keel and on all of the running gear. This variance is while using the same paint over and over, while travelling through the same waters and spending winters in a shelter.
The significant difference occurred when I moved house from Coquitlam to Saltspring so the summer moorage went from Coal Harbour to Long Harbour. The salinity and amount of sunshine in Long Harbour are both higher than in Coal Harbour and this is reflected in the health of bottom growth. In 2015, I changed up the paint, as the Fibreglass Bottomkote I had been using until then could no longer handle the growth. I tried a vendor's recommendation of a Petit product (can't check my records from here so I won't guess) that allowed me to miss hauling altogether in 2016. I had a diver do the zincs and scrape the barnacles from the running gear in the early spring. I dove and scraped again in mid summer. By then the hull was 16 months since a one coat paint job and still reasonably clean. The hull still looked clear when I returned Retreat to her coal Harbour shelter in November. I could still get my usual 8.2 knots at 2100 rpm, so the running gear was still ok.
I will haul in April or May of 2017 and use the same paint. I don't know what I will do with the running gear this time, as leaving it clear has had poor results. Coating with BottomKote always had poor results.
I don't put an extra coat on at the waterline, as I have never scrubbed through the thick single coat and the growth at the waterline has never been excessive.

 

[BandB]

Backing up a bit as none of us can advise without knowing more, which you probably don't know yourself at this point.

First, what paint is currently on the bottom and what the condition is. These will influence not only the amount of work required but your paint options.

Then I'd talk to some experts and other boaters in your immediate area as every area is different.

We only use hard paints. While many in our area do use ablative, I wouldn't see it as good in our area as it might be in some. I would suggest Interlux or Pettit paints. All the paint companies do have charts to help match to your conditions and to previous paints.

We also strongly recommend Prop Speed. Some say if you're not after speed it's overkill, but I think, just like bottom paint, if the boat is sitting and moving slowly, it's even more important.

 

[Baker]

People.....you use more paint at the water line because the surface tension of the water(at the surface) is more abrasive than below the water line(ie...Water droplets are more abrasive than a stream of water because of the surface tension of each droplet). SO the wear at the waterline happens more quickly that below the waterline....especially towards the bow where there is an impact effect of water hitting the hull. Ablation happens more quickly at the waterline.

And yes, $5900 is way high for a standard bottom job. It sounds like there is a full peel/blast and barrier coat in the quote. Generally speaking, a bottom job should hit somewhere between $40-$50 a foot depending on paint used and the area of the country. I paid $1200 for my last bottom job but my boat was already out of the water for other work so that did not include the hauling and blocking and "storage"(already included in my other work) and launching. TO give you an idea, I got one new prop...two new shafts...two new rudders...all new cutlass bearings(I have 4 struts)...all new prop seals with spares on the shaft....blisters repaired and a bottom job all for a smidge over ten grand. And you are getting just a bottom job for $6k???

 

[fstbttms]

Around here, MD and the EPA in turn have the marinas by the short hairs. In order to maintain "MD Clean Marina" certification, they have to leap through some significant hoops themselves...

Not necessarily a bad thing; I'm not clear on the science (that might be) behind the regs...

Participation in the Clean Marina program is voluntary. Further, the EPA or state regulatory agencies have nothing to do with it. Clean Marina program criteria carry no weight and any marina that chooses not to follow them risks nothing more than losing their Clean Marina status.

Edit: Upon actually researching the Maryland Clean Marina program, it does seem that it is promoted by the Department of Natural Resources in that state. That said, it is a voluntary program that carries no weight of law.

 

[fstbttms]

People... Ablation happens more quickly at the waterline.

Except when you don't use an ablative paint.