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Old 04-08-2016, 04:03 PM   #1
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ALERT KVH TracVision Dish Network customers

Hi all,

Passing along some intel in order to try and save you time and frustration if you are an owner of a Dish Network KVH TracVision unit.

Dish network has stopped providing service for these units and has changed their frequencies so you will only see "looking for Signal" but there is no signal to be found. You can get a patch that potentially works but only with one bird satellite 119.

KVH is being awesome and offering outstanding service and support for those of us who have purchased these units (that are now better used as a spare anchor) with an upgrade to a direcTV unit.

You must have purchased the unit in the last 27 months
Send Proof of purchase
Latest Dish network monthly bill
Serial numbers (probably included on the dealer invoice)

To
E-Mail support@kvh.com

Dish sucks as even though they made the change they will continue to bill you unless you call. So call! I requested a month month credit and after 15 minutes got it.

I just sent in my details to them and will update.

CB
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:53 PM   #2
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Does this apply to all KVH systems or just some? Had an issue with my KVH TracVision 5 and it has just returned from the service center. haven't checked it out yet, but would have thought they'd say something if there was a problem with "DISH"....
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Old 04-08-2016, 07:48 PM   #3
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CB,

I don't think it is correct to say that DISH stopped serving those units. DISH doesn't know what you are using to receive their signal other than the receiver. The same goes for DirecTV. DISH changes their technology just like DirecTV, KVH, Intellian, Raymarine and anyone else. In this case KVH designed a marine satellite terminal to work with DISH Network as well as DirecTV using the technology that both services began operating with more than 20 years ago. They tweaked it some over time but the core technology in satellite modulation stayed the same. DISH began introducing their new modulation scheme about 8 years ago. In deference to the systems that needed the old modulation scheme to track satellites, they kept one transponder on a new satellite at 129 degrees transmitting in the old format. About 2 years ago DISH put out to their retailers and service providers the plan to convert all services to the new scheme. About 7 years ago DirecTV moved HDTV services over to two new satellites operating in the Ka Band. It took a couple of years and new equipment from KVH, Intellian, and others for marine satellite terminal customers to get access to DirecTV's HD programming.

If I read KVH's product releases correctly, they started producing equipment that could track the new modulation scheme in 2013, but didn't have any way to modify earlier production models. Those older terminals can still be used for DirecTV standard definition programming, but in announcements to dealers this week, DirecTV will be all HD sometime in 2018, and I suspect they will move their network over to a newer modulation scheme.

Obsolete is obsolete, just like my Raymarine Autohelm wind instrument that quit working last year. It will cost me about a boat buck to replace it with the latest and greatest, not quite as much as a new satellite terminal.

Tom
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Old 04-08-2016, 09:36 PM   #4
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Tom,
What you wrote seems to follow what I have experienced with KVH. Unfortunately, KVH continued to sell receivers past 2013 that they obviously knew would cease to work in 3-5 yrs. When I asked them at the Miami Boat show about replacing our unit, KVH was less than straight forward with answers.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:24 PM   #5
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Tom, I understand and to Henrys point KVH probably should have been more transparent earlier on about the changes prior to making the shift Cold. In many cases they or their dealers should have contact info and attempt to reach impacted users. Versus getting a "locating Satellite" message and jumping on the phone with uninformed agents who were trying to help.

KVH is offering a DirecTV upgrade. I have submitted the ticket and will advise on what the "upgrade" program is.

My point about Dish (and agreed on by the agent) was that the service agents should have had a advisory and communication about the fact that there would be a number of units that would not work based on their shift. Thus, when an effected customer calls there should be a pro-active versus uninformed response.

We shall see what the "upgrade" program is. Please "Stand By"
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawdler View Post
Does this apply to all KVH systems or just some? Had an issue with my KVH TracVision 5 and it has just returned from the service center. haven't checked it out yet, but would have thought they'd say something if there was a problem with "DISH"....
As I understand it, this impacts all KVH TracVision units that are programed for Dish. I included the e-mail and info that KVH was asking for to qualify for their "upgrade" program which I am still awaiting exact details on.

There is apparently a patch for the one remaining satellite the units can receive #119.
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:53 PM   #7
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Dish made a technology change that KVH wasn't up to the challenge on. I've had Dish at my house since 1997 and I'm watching it right now without any changes to the antenna in all these years. The issue with KVH is that they were tracking satellites with an old signal that was being phased out. My tracking antenna on my power cat is 10 years old and still works. I'm going with anything other than KVH on my trawler project boat. KVH is the problem here, not Dish.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:16 AM   #8
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So if I can get a patch for 119, what does that mean to me from a practical standpoint?
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:55 AM   #9
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CB,

I understand your frustration with DISH customer service, we contend with the same thing with the services in Alaska and Hawaii which aren't the same as in the other states. With 14 million or so customers, giving the right answer to one of the 40,000 or so customers in Alaska or Hawaii is a challenge. I don't know how many KVH terminals are out there, but it is probably less.

As far as the latest patch for the 119 satellite, I don't think it will work on any of the full CONUS transponders as they have all been converted to 8PSK modulation. The only remaining QPSK transponders are on spot beam transponders which serve specific geographical areas. If you go outside of the spot beam you will lose tracking ability. If there is enough interest, I can work on a spot beam map with frequencies and set up parameters for the old tracking boards for those brave enough to manually enter new data.

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Old 04-09-2016, 10:51 AM   #10
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Tom, are you saying the KVH boards can be reprogrammed to "look" for the birds? Is it only limited to QPSK signal acquisition or would it possible to use coordinates?
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:46 AM   #11
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Some KVH can be reprogrammed, some can't based on date. There are other threads on this with a lot of details and specifics.

SatTV -- KVH problems, What is Best?

And Intellian has issues too:

Intellian Satelite Issue / DISH Network
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:49 PM   #12
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Kurt,

The older KVH systems that cannot be refitted with the RF7 board seem to be limited to tracking on QPSK modulated transponders only. DISH no longer has any of those on the transponders that illuminate all the states. They do have some QPSK transponders still on spot beams that serve specific geographical areas. For example, I think you are in the Baltimore area. The New York spot beam reaches from the entrance of Chesapeake Bay all the way to Maine. The actual point where service will drop off is not entirely predictable due to weather conditions. Today the New York spot beam is still QPSK. If you have an older terminal and want to try a science experiment, try this.

Go into the tracking setup of the KVH and enter these parameters:

Satellite 119
Polarization LHCP
Frequency 12268
Symbol Rate 20000
FEC Code 7/8
Network Id 0x1006
Decoding Type DVB QPSK

I can't confirm if the network ID is correct but it is the one KVH was using. It's helps ID a satellite as different from all the other ones with the same setup parameters.

Tom
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpbrady View Post
CB,

I understand your frustration with DISH customer service, we contend with the same thing with the services in Alaska and Hawaii which aren't the same as in the other states. With 14 million or so customers, giving the right answer to one of the 40,000 or so customers in Alaska or Hawaii is a challenge. I don't know how many KVH terminals are out there, but it is probably less.

Tom
Yes the customer service issue is really my point with Dish on this particular issue. The couple of times I have been on the phone with Dish prior which was primarily to change the "local" channels when we moved the boat up and down the coast they were fast, flawless and turn-key.

As a couple of others point out, this is clearly a transparency issue with KVH not only with consumers but appears to have also caught the dealer that installed the unit off guard. If memory serves me correctly they were the ones to recommend Dish but I have no viability into KVH's dealer communication.

Bottom line it was just a heads up to others who turn their unit on possibly after having been off the boat over the winter and get "Searching for Satellites" to help avoid the 45 minute time suck. We have better things to do like pump out the head!
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:59 PM   #14
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Thanks, Tom, I hope that helps someone with a non-supported KVH system. I'll stick with legacy devices as they simply work. My power cat isn't big enough for a dome unit (which is why I've been using an AzTrax for years) and my trawler is a 1976 model. I'll be fine going "ghetto" with a TITV system on it. I already bought 2 extra 18" dishes (AKA "Dish 300") models. The two I just bought came with DirecTV LNBs and darn if they don't work with Dish too (tested at home). The 72.7 satellite has 90% of the programming I watch and it is pretty easy to lock on to one satellite location.
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Old 04-09-2016, 06:39 PM   #15
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I have a 4 year old Intellian I4 dome with a MIMM box which allows me to get Dish. When Dish changed things, Intellian provided a downloadable software upgrade and now I get all the Dish channels including HD. I can access satellite 110, 119, and 129. You must download the software to a laptop and then upload to the Intellian control box.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:13 PM   #16
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That is excellent, Howard! Intellian seems more on top of it than KVH. I'm curious, though, can you pick up the Dish Eastern Arc satellites? I'd think you'd get better reception both in CT and FL. I've been on their Eastern Arc for years. 72.7 at home in MD only as I get locals off OTA antenna. 72.7 and 61.5 at my PA home to get HD and MD locals. On my power cat we only "point" at 72.7 and can get that in MD, FL and Abacos.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:45 PM   #17
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We get the western arc and have great reception. We get all of the New York metro area channels in FL and CT. I use OTA for the locals in FL.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:03 PM   #18
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As an update I got a call from KVH customer service today and they verified that I "qualified" for a free upgrade unit for DirecTV and they would be shipping in 2-3 days. Not sure what their margins are, or how many TracVision Dish units are out there, but this lack of transparency earlier on is probably a bit "pricey".

If you have one of the units and you fit into the window originally mentioned in the string it might be a good idea to give them a shout out while the promo is going on.
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