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Old 07-24-2011, 10:00 PM   #21
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

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Tony B wrote:
Waterhawk

The boat you posted here may be steel buit it certainly does not look ocean capable. For one thing, an ocean capable boat this size would not have a high profile to the wind nor would it have large windows to be blown out. This boat looks like a steel houseboat capable of coastal cruising in clam weather. I have seen other boats that look like this. They usually have a V hull forward mainly in the bow area to give the appearance of seaworthyness and then the bottom quickly flattens out as it goes toward the stern. I could be wrong on this particular boat, but I doubt it.
As someone mentioned earlier, the only way to cross an ocean safely in a power boat is to have a $10 million or more boat.

If you really want to cross an ocean, a ketch rig is the way to go. Your sail area is spread over 2 masts which makes sail handling easier and the ketch rig offers more options in what kind of sails can be used in different combinations for varying weather conditions. I'm 64 and overweight and I can single hand my boat.

If you want to cross an ocean, you may be in open water for 30 days or more and a lot can and will happen in 30 days.
*Understood, but not to get all philosophical on you, but throughout my life I've struggled to overcome the hurdle of money, like most of us have, to be able to do the things the rich folks take for granted.* I'm going to find a way, in my budget, to make this happen, even if it's not this boat.

but I understand where you are coming from, but I'm trying to approach this the way it has worked for me in past.* I live in off the grid cement-block cabin, with no utilites and no NO PAYMENTS, screw them, I reject their paradigm and will make my own..

Sorry,, back on point, I will check into full hull configuration (thx for that tip).* I also see what you mean about the wind issue, but I'm not convinced and still am curious about further input,, is it really more unstable than a fully geared up modified trawler, it may be missing a wind channel, which MAY be critical...



-- Edited by waterhawk on Sunday 24th of July 2011 10:01:18 PM


-- Edited by waterhawk on Sunday 24th of July 2011 10:02:25 PM
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:36 AM   #22
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

If you want seaworthy to cross oceans many older sailboats will do fine. I have a Beneteau Firtst 32 for $20K that crossed from Europe already.

If you want a liveaboard retirement roomaran , that boat might work . inland waters , but should be 1/3 the price you are quoting.

We had an Albin 36 that had a fab refrigeration fridge freezer and of course suffered all the usual TT problems , but it went for $25K, and would be far better to chance a trip to the Dom Rep , or down island, a near shore run.

$50K these days will get a fine vessel, but true Offshore would be far more expensive as so few are ever built.
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Old 07-25-2011, 03:30 PM   #23
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

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FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.

If you want seaworthy to cross oceans many older sailboats will do fine. I have a Beneteau Firtst 32 for $20K that crossed from Europe already.

If you want a liveaboard retirement roomaran , that boat might work . inland waters , but should be 1/3 the price you are quoting.

We had an Albin 36 that had a fab refrigeration fridge freezer and of course suffered all the usual TT problems , but it went for $25K, and would be far better to chance a trip to the Dom Rep , or down island, a near shore run.

$50K these days will get a fine vessel, but true Offshore would be far more expensive as so few are ever built.
*

He's asking 39K OBO...

How come you guys are saying only a sailbait is worthy in that price range?

What do you think is minimum (please don't say $10 million,, @TonyB P* )in current market?

I've seen, with continued effort at looking after being berated for thinking about this one as candidate, a couple steel hull boats* 30-50K that seemed to be in decent condition...

What would you think about a 1970 47' Chris-Craft Roamer (with 2 DetDiesl* 285HP) steel hull?

Would that be more reasonable for an Ocean Crossing?

*

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-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:19:36 PM
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:15 PM   #24
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.
*That's how my boat made its transpacific voyage.







*

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:21:19 PM
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Old 07-25-2011, 04:21 PM   #25
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Like my mother always said, "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach." If you are indeed struggling for cash in the long run, you NEED to find a better but smaller and newer boat. 53' steel nightclub boats and 42 year-old boats that are cheap will KILL YOU in routine maintenance and even just to get her up-to-snuff for the type of boating you are asking her to give you.

I would like to hear why you have your heart set on ocean crossing? It's not for the weary of a powerboat skipper. I thought like you when we were shopping. I had grand plans to take our boat to Fiji, or Greece while sipping wine and being fanned by beautiful and naked native women. A few dozen greasy t-shirts, lots of wine from a box, and thousands upon thousands of dollars in fuels system upgrades, bimini top, bottom paint, and slip fees has put that dream out for a viking funeral. But I love every single minute of it. There are several lifetimes of great boating with US and Caribbean waters.

I don't pretend to be an expert (I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but being single and "dollar challenged" will make boating a bit more of a handful for you than some (if not most). Us married folks can spread the love when it comes to all of the things that it takes to keep and old boat running and looking new. And unless you have an extraordinary amount of free time or a lot of friends that will work for free, you could quickly get in over your head. That will make boating not much fun anymore. Just examine your interest. A sailboat may or may NOT be the answer. Bess and I get by as avid boaters. We have to struggle to afford it and have put aside all of our previous hobbies to do it. We'll never regret it, but unless Ed McMahon comes knocking, it's unlikely we'll ever have the option to cross an ocean.

Not to say that Skinny Dippin' (or that CC above) COULDN'T do it, but it would take bigger balls than I have and a dang-site bit more experience too.
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:22 PM   #26
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

A Chris Craft crossing the ocean? Seriously? Don't even think about it. Just b/c a boat is made of aluminum or some metal or is approximately 50' in size does NOT mean you can cross an ocean in it. I've sold quite a few of the classic chris crafts....great boats, I love them, beautiful, etc. but they are a coastal/lake cruiser.
If you are going power boat, you need to be looking at Kady Krogen, Defever, Nordhavn. Cheapest Nordhavn that could cross the ocean on the market right now is a 1989 46' (more of the nord 46's have circumnavigated than any other power production boat ever built) and it is listed at $319k. You are fairly certain to NOT find a power boat, in any reasonable condition, capable of crossing the ocean for $50k. You won't find it for $200k.
The only reasonable boat that truly could cross an ocean in the $50k price point is a sail boat, period. Any cirumnavigator that is a power boat that you can pick up for $50k is going to cost you 5x's that to fix up to even start getting her capable. IF you switch over to just cruising the islands/USA east coast, a low cost trawler will be perfect and economical. You do NOT want to be out in this in some coastal boat:






I don't want to be on ANY boat in those conditions, let alone some boat designed to stay in shore like you are leaning towards. I am all for giving up the "normal" paradigms but oceans and waves and nature are kind of indifferent about philosophy- they are pretty much very indifferent actually.

If you want a good challenge and want to live free, how about going the opposite direction and row across the ocean. There is an entire movement of people that have done this....you would have a higher chance of living to tell about it in a properly designed ocean rowboat than trying to do it in a coastal cruiser.

P.S. That Chris Craft has a cruising range of only about 400 miles.
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:15 PM   #27
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
waterhawk wrote:How come you guys are saying only a sailbait is worthy in that price range?
What do you think is minimum (please don't say $10 million,, @TonyB P* )in current market?

I've seen, with continued effort at looking after being berated for thinking about this one as candidate, a couple steel hull boats* 30-50K that seemed to be in decent condition...

What would you think about a 1970 47' Chris-Craft Roamer (with 2

Would that be more reasonable for an Ocean Crossing?

*

*I am not a naval architect but the long and short of it is this. Generally, power boats for less than a few million dollars are just not designed for ocean crossing. They just ain't.

Sailboats - new price of around $200,000 ARE designed to cross oceans. They just are.

So, an older sailboat that is ocean capable can cost around $40 to $50K in fairly good condition.

An older ocean crossing power boat will cost around $200K and up (very up at times).*

What makes a boat ocean capable is not a steel hull or a fiberglass hull or a wooden hull. It is the design. Most circumnavigations by non-commercial individuals are done in sailboats made of fiberglass.

*

*
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:44 PM   #28
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
markpierce wrote:FF wrote:
it is ocean crossing sea worthy

Not unless it goes as deck cargo.
*That's how my boat made its transpacific voyage.







*

*



-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 25th of July 2011 04:21:19 PM

Awesome, looks like good adventure in itself.

how big of boat do you have and how much did it cost, and what were your port origin and destinations?

very curious!!
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:00 PM   #29
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:
Like my mother always said, "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach." If you are indeed struggling for cash in the long run, you NEED to find a better but smaller and newer boat. 53' steel nightclub boats and 42 year-old boats that are cheap will KILL YOU in routine maintenance and even just to get her up-to-snuff for the type of boating you are asking her to give you.

I would like to hear why you have your heart set on ocean crossing? It's not for the weary of a powerboat skipper. I thought like you when we were shopping. I had grand plans to take our boat to Fiji, or Greece while sipping wine and being fanned by beautiful and naked native women. A few dozen greasy t-shirts, lots of wine from a box, and thousands upon thousands of dollars in fuels system upgrades, bimini top, bottom paint, and slip fees has put that dream out for a viking funeral. But I love every single minute of it. There are several lifetimes of great boating with US and Caribbean waters.

I don't pretend to be an expert (I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but being single and "dollar challenged" will make boating a bit more of a handful for you than some (if not most). Us married folks can spread the love when it comes to all of the things that it takes to keep and old boat running and looking new. And unless you have an extraordinary amount of free time or a lot of friends that will work for free, you could quickly get in over your head. That will make boating not much fun anymore. Just examine your interest. A sailboat may or may NOT be the answer. Bess and I get by as avid boaters. We have to struggle to afford it and have put aside all of our previous hobbies to do it. We'll never regret it, but unless Ed McMahon comes knocking, it's unlikely we'll ever have the option to cross an ocean.

Not to say that Skinny Dippin' (or that CC above) COULDN'T do it, but it would take bigger balls than I have and a dang-site bit more experience too.
*

hah! I like your prose Gonzo!*

I suppose I do have a bit of that 1/2 errr,,, actually, naked native women fanning me while I'm at the helm.** But, I'm an adventurous person (quickly approaching the 40 cycles) and I can feel my sphere of invulnerability fading, and want to use it before it fades completely ...

HOWEVER, I don't consider myself stupid and try to avoid darwin candidate awards, and try to absorb and adapt to the wisdom of you pros, and old-timers (pisses me off when the 18 yr olds don't heed my warnings!!!).

I guess I'm bent on Ocean Crossing as adventure, but more interested in being able to cruise around the Eastern sector as I see fit,, maybe a year or so... I want to do it on a boat... I think the Ocean Crossing is a cool and fun adventure, but the main goal is to be able to cruise those continents.* I thought about chartering, but cost way too much for timeframe, and just settled on getting there by boat..

BUT! I haven't even thought about riding a coastal cruiser over as cargo,, pretty cool, and will pursue that.

And really I want to be able to cruise Caribbean for now, but feel like I should plan for my future plans into this purchase.. So, even thought I only need a Caribbean Cruiser for now, I feel compelled (probably wrongly) to get something that I can use in future (something suitable for crossing)... but If I can cargo ship it for something something reasonably more than cost of me getting there (including ship upgrades) I'd definitley do that....



-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 08:00:40 PM


-- Edited by waterhawk on Monday 25th of July 2011 09:37:08 PM
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:12 PM   #30
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
Tony B wrote:*I am not a naval architect but the long and short of it is this. Generally, power boats for less than a few million dollars are just not designed for ocean crossing. They just ain't.
Sailboats - new price of around $200,000 ARE designed to cross oceans. They just are.

So, an older sailboat that is ocean capable can cost around $40 to $50K in fairly good condition.

An older ocean crossing power boat will cost around $200K and up (very up at times).*

What makes a boat ocean capable is not a steel hull or a fiberglass hull or a wooden hull. It is the design. Most circumnavigations by non-commercial individuals are done in sailboats made of fiberglass.
*Ok, understood...*

I'm just leary of fiberglass;* Only because of a few tidbits of input here and there spreading the gloom... and I try to fold that in.

I read these,, albeit rare, stories of being hit by a whale or running aground into coral, or hitting unseen debris.... I just read an article from a major manufacturer talking about the decision process of Ocean Crossing Vessels, and* deciding to push the designer to use steel because of the recent Tsunami in Japan and the project increase of debris in the Sea in the next 5-10 yrs.... Not sure where the project currents take that debris...

Anyway,, my impression, from PURE reading (no experience with Sea/Ocean crossing performance), was that the thought was fiberglass is cool as long as you are close enough to get help, not to say that steel can't be sunk (obviously), but the steel can better handle unexpected contigencies than fiberglass...

*
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:47 PM   #31
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

And with that,maybe you are headed down the smarter path. Get a smaller, more affordable, and better condition coastal cruiser now. Learn what it REALLY takes to be a yachtsman. THEN, should the burr get in your saddle, either sell the coastal cruiser and buy a DeFever, Krogan, (insert another blue water boat name here) and "have at it, boy", OR do as you like and ship it to Europe of Fiji for $1000/ft. Either way, IMHO, it's the smarter move. Because... TBH... I am seeing you as the college kid that buys a Hayabusa as their FIRST motorcycle and goes out and slides under a gas truck and tastes his own blood (circa Sam Kinison). No need to rush into this (unless you are Tony B). If you are just now hitting 40... You have a long time to enjoy boating.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:54 PM   #32
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:
And with that,maybe you are headed down the smarter path. Get a smaller, more affordable, and better condition coastal cruiser now. Learn what it REALLY takes to be a yachtsman. THEN, should the burr get in your saddle, either sell the coastal cruiser and buy a DeFever, Krogan, (insert another blue water boat name here) and "have at it, boy", OR do as you like and ship it to Europe of Fiji for $1000/ft. Either way, IMHO, it's the smarter move. Because... TBH... I am seeing you as the college kid that buys a Hayabusa as their FIRST motorcycle and goes out and slides under a gas truck and tastes his own blood (circa Sam Kinison). No need to rush into this (unless you are Tony B). If you are just now hitting 40... You have a long time to enjoy boating.
*Ok... I'm with you,, except I still got that thin layer, sphere of invulnerability to use up quickish....

but yeah, I'm accepting that (begrudgingly :P) ,,,

$1000/ft*** to ship,, are you ****ting me ??? (sorry for explicitive)**** well, that's a deal breaker... really?? (markpierce,, really? is that ~ what you paid to cargo your boat?? you rich phuck!!! :P)

hmm, well, I am settling on a craft adequate for Western hemisphere traversing,, I know this has been hashed and hashed and re-hashed but given current environment, do you all ( or ya'll whatever) think that a Fiberglass boat is sufficient... I'm really focused on steel because of the edge-case horror stories, but can would like to hear the glories of Fiberglass for cost reasons, for West hemisphere coastal cruising...
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:58 AM   #33
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

The chance of a debris collision is so small , most folks simply ignore it.

The Yellowstone Caldera can blow at any min, San Fran can shake down today , a comet cam plop down on your car..

So what?

The usual GRP reasoning is that the boat can be very maint free , and more importantly IF the solid Grp is not maintained the boat does not suffer.

Leave wood to get wet and dry , and dry rot will make it GONE!

Allow rust anywhere on a steel boat and it too leaves.

It would tale a great stretch to imagine how debris from Japan could get into the Carib , with out being air dropped in.

An ocean crossing* 35 ft GRP sailboat can be had for $20K , just ask.

A white bottom paint is claimed to reduce whale strikes , if you worry.

An offshore power boat with cruising range and scantlings is very rare , so very expen$ive.


-- Edited by FF on Tuesday 26th of July 2011 04:00:19 AM
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:31 AM   #34
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

OK mate you are set on getting an ocean crosser.
Look around the used boat yards see if you can find an incomplete hull.
Are you a handy engineer, welder, sander, painter, cabinet maker etc.
Start a project and you can have your ocean crosser.
It may take a few years and all the money you earn will go into DA DREAM.
Sometimes it is worth it.
An ex steel fishing boat may be a good start.
I don't know if they are available in the US but can usually get something like that down our way.
That piece of scrap you listed in the first place is definately not the boat or start you want to take.

Go for it you just may succeed.
You get nothing by just standing on the footpath.
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Old 07-26-2011, 05:11 AM   #35
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Waterhawk,

If you want to cross the Ocean to get to the other side-- Take a plane or a cruise ship!

If it is a goal to achieve in your own boat, and you don't have 500k to 1million dollars to invest.* Get A Sailboat!

Otherwise if you want a nice 6000mile goal have you thought about doing The Loop?

You could do that in a Chriscraft or whatever, no problem.

It is still an accomplishment, few people really* make the time for.

JohnP
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:51 AM   #36
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Take a look at http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973.../United-States

A 1977 model of this boat motored from Hong Kong to Ft. Lauderdale in 1977. Some modifications were made, ie, one 200 gallon water tank was converted to fuel and provisions were made for protecting the windows in heavey weather (not used during the voyage), otherwise a stock trawler. As a former sailboat cruiser I don't think I would want to take the trip, but if it's your thing, go for it!
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:11 AM   #37
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:
OK mate you are set on getting an ocean crosser.
Look around the used boat yards see if you can find an incomplete hull.
Are you a handy engineer, welder, sander, painter, cabinet maker etc.
Start a project and you can have your ocean crosser.
It may take a few years and all the money you earn will go into DA DREAM.
Sometimes it is worth it.
An ex steel fishing boat may be a good start.
I don't know if they are available in the US but can usually get something like that down our way.
That piece of scrap you listed in the first place is definately not the boat or start you want to take.

Go for it you just may succeed.
You get nothing by just standing on the footpath.
*Yeah,, I'm not that motivated for that project, wish I were, I know it would be fulfilling...

But I need something pre-packaged..

HAH!! beauty--beholder...**** I'm done with it though,, I agree with surveyor1 though,,, it looks like a tough boat,, but the weirdness/ugliness is too much...* Who nows, those may be super reinforced windows...
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:16 AM   #38
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
Tomas wrote:
Take a look at http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973.../United-States

A 1977 model of this boat motored from Hong Kong to Ft. Lauderdale in 1977. Some modifications were made, ie, one 200 gallon water tank was converted to fuel and provisions were made for protecting the windows in heavey weather (not used during the voyage), otherwise a stock trawler. As a former sailboat cruiser I don't think I would want to take the trip, but if it's your thing, go for it!
*Interesting.. thanks for that link.* I like the concept and will think about it.

I'm still considering the Sailboat path, from the steady input, but would prefer a Trawler type rig...
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:27 AM   #39
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Advice on weird looking trawler.

I would love to offfer more advice but you will need some sort of profile for me to do it.
We dont know your age, your skill levels or your location. These are sometimes important in replys. As of right now you are contemplating a world voyage which could cost upwards of $80,000 for fuel alone in a trawler. This don't count running generator at times, docking fees, and little things like food and repairs in what could be a 2 to 5 or more year trip.


-- Edited by Tony B on Tuesday 26th of July 2011 08:29:15 AM
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:51 AM   #40
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RE: Advice on weird looking trawler.

Quote:
Tony B wrote:
I would love to offfer more advice but you will need some sort of profile for me to do it.
We dont know your age, your skill levels or your location. These are sometimes important in replys. As of right now you are contemplating a world voyage which could cost upwards of $80,000 for fuel alone in a trawler. This don't count running generator at times, docking fees, and little things like food and repairs in what could be a 2 to 5 or more year trip.



-- Edited by Tony B on Tuesday 26th of July 2011 08:29:15 AM
*Yeah, understand the fuel thing, I like the topic about the para-sails and such... Was looking at some electric motors to run off generator and solar,,, even a hydrogen combustion engine type setup...

Hah, well I have a feel for the scope of what I'm getting into, and researching it.* The plan is to for sure do coastal cruises on this side and prep/research for a crossing...

But I want to make sure I get the right boat now,, just concerned about buying/selling boat for each purpose, would rather just get the right one first...

*

I'm almost 40, when people ask me what I do I usually say 'computer-jockey' , when I'm scouting for job my resume says 'engineer', meh,, yeah, I work for a living.** I can usually line up work to work remote/offsite (even off satellite uplink)..

I'm single and looking * (have 2 girls** ,,, some people call them pets, but that offends me)

I'm an adventurous person, lot's of remote hiking,

I'm a transient, so I'm not really located anywhere, I move a lot for job.

I am fairly practical and would say a JoaT* -- all the basics, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, ok at welding after I run beads that look the surface of the moon and about as wide for awhile...

*
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