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Old 07-08-2009, 06:25 AM   #21
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RE: advice re boat

thanx tg for your advice...i am canadian and have thought about moving to sidney or ladysmith...i just don't know enough about the pluses and minuses.....i think i would like to have the boat where i live since 1/2 the fun of having a boat is working on it...i will be working in arizona 2 weeks/month...i just started this new facet of my live with the change from cayman to the states and researching trawlers...its fun...i will be looking at a lot of boats before i make my decision...i used to have a twin engine boat and now i have a single engine diesel boat (without thrusters)...so i'm kinda of familiar with how they handle...since we have friends on the canadian side we would prefer to be closer to the border than ..say.. olympia WA...plus we love going north on the san juan islands....we are planning in renting in anacortes and then snooping around to see where we finally "throw anchor".....do u have any numbers on the cost of maintaining a boat in canada vs lets say the bellingham area??...all your advice is greatly appreciated and if u want to warm your bones and if we are still in cayman come winter u have a bunk in our house

thanx much
frank and therese
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:44 AM   #22
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RE: advice re boat

For those that are reluctant to accept reality on pricing , this advert was in my inbox.


First, a quote from a recent news story:

Jul 4, 4:57 AM (ET) NEW YORK (AP) - That old saying "cash is king" certainly rings true these days. Investors can't seem to get enough of it... Even with today's minuscule returns, cash seems to have become a sought-after asset class among investors who intend to keep it as a part of their portfolios for the long term.

Actually, the returns on cash and cash equivalents -- such as U.S. Treasury bills -- have been more than "minuscule."

As Elliott Wave International's president Robert Prechter told Barron's in a recent interview, "Cash has been good. Today you can buy twice the house, twice the stock shares and twice the gasoline that you could a short while ago." And as for T-bills, the March 2008 issue of EWI's monthly Elliott Wave Financial Forecast presented this table to subscribers, and said:

While the buy-and-hold sentiment is as strong as ever, that stance has been bested by a completely risk-free return for eight years. Cash will continue to outperform until stocks are no longer fashionable, at which time the market will be near a bottom.
[img]http://www.elliottwave.com/images/marke****ch/mw%207-6-09.GIF[/img]
EWI's endorsement of cash as the asset to own during deflation goes back to this forecast and recommendation Bob Prechter first expressed in his 2002 New York Times Business Bestseller Conquer the Crash* (quote):

Conquer the Crash, Chapter 18
Should You Invest in Cash?
For those among the public who have recently become concerned that being fully invested in one stock or stock fund is not risk-free, the analysts battle cry is diversification. This strategy is bogus. Why invest in anything unless you have a strong opinion about where its going and a game plan for when to get out? Owning an array of investments is financial suicide during deflation. They all go down, and the logistics of getting out of them can be a nightmare... [A]ll assets go down in price during deflation except one: cash. Cash is the only asset that assuredly rises in value during deflation.

Seven years later, it seems like more people are finally*discovering this fact. But, continues the AP article quoted earlier, "So long as the cash just stays on the sidelines, there won't be much fuel to propel stocks and the economy forward."

Does that mean that the stock rally off the March lows is over? You may be surprised by the answer on p. 3 in the new, July Elliott Wave Financial Forecast. Read it online now, risk-free.

-------------------------
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:05 AM   #23
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RE: advice re boat

We just had a couple from Kansas spend the week end with us looking at boats.* The best is to go to a boat afloat show or trawler fest so you can go on compare the different brand names, configurations and price range.* Also while here spend sometime visiting some marinas locations.*


*
The next time you are in the Seattle area let me/us know. You can email me at rw58ph@yahoo.com. *Be more then glad to spend sometime walking the docks with you.* I will let you know when the next boat show is. There is usually one in September but the big one is in January.* It snowed/Blizzard during the last January boat show.* Now that was interesting?* **
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:40 AM   #24
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RE: advice re boat

hi ...take a look at this and see what u think...i think he's asking 120k for it
http://dieselducks.com/Ducks%20for%20sale.html
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:58 AM   #25
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RE: advice re boat

Pallares:* You need to narrow your range of choices. It was good therapy and*took me about 6 months to do -* then I got serious.
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:27 PM   #26
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advice re boat

I think the best way to decide which boat to buy is similar to the way I think one should approach the decision about which computer to buy. Rather than run back and forth comparing brands, features and prices, I believe it's better to initially ignore this altogether and first define exactly what you want to do with the thing. What do you want to accomplish with the computer? Write? Crunch numbers? Play games? Do heavy-duty manipulation of photos or video? Navigate a boat? What applications do you want to run? What kind of connectivity will you require?

Once you figure all that out, then it's just a matter of determining which computers meet those requirements. This will generate a short list of candidates at which point you can start comparing brands, reviews, ratings, reliability, prices, etc.

Same thing with boats, in my opinion. There are a million of them out there in every configuration imaginable. Many of them are really neat, and it's very easy to get into an "I like that one," "No, I like THAT one," sort of a scramble.

So a more productive (but maybe not as much fun) approach is to first determine what the boat is going to need to do for you. Ask as many "use" questions of yourself as you can.

Where am I going to be boating? How many people will typically be on the boat? Are we going to be doing a lot of cooking on the boat? What kind of waters will we be boating in (protected coastal, open ocean, rivers, lakes)? How large a berth do we want? What sort of fuel economy do we need? How important is speed (or the lack of it)? How confident are we in one engine? Are we willing to pay for the care and feeding of two engines?*Do*I (we) have any*physical conditions that might require a boat that's easy to step onto from a dcock? *And on and on and on.

When you have answers to all the questions you will have defined the basic type of boat that best meets your needs. Then it's a matter of determiing which specific brands and models in that type appeal to you the most. You may end up sacrificing something that you thought was important in favor of a particular boat that has an aesthetic quality that really appeals to you but doesn't quite meet all your stated requirements. Then it becomes a judgement call.

But I cannot imagine anything more disappointing than to focus on a particular boat, buy it, and THEN find that it does not provide what you need for your boating area and your boating requirements. The boat my wife and I own is not our favorite type, brand, or model*of boat. But after defining what we wanted to accomplish with a cruising boat, where we were going to be going with it, how much room we wanted, what we wanted to do on it, how much maintenance we were willing and able to do on our own, how much money we wanted to spend, and so on, it was the boat that best met our requirements and it at least comes close enough to satisfying our aesthetic and "character" desires to live with. So we bought it and have not been disappointed in any way since.

But I've met people who "bought the boat of their dreams" only to find once they started using it that it didn't meet their expectations at all. So my advice is to define the expectations in as much detail as you can stand, and then find the boat that will meet them.* Boating is expensive enough as it is.* The last thing you want is to spend a bunch of money on*a boat that ends up*"pissing you off" in some way or other.* This just leads to a frustrating and ultimately disappointing boating experience.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 8th of July 2009 01:38:02 PM
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:33 PM   #27
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RE: advice re boat

Great advice ...thanku very much
fp
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:36 AM   #28
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advice re boat

" The best is to go to a boat afloat show or trawler fest so you can go on compare the different brand names, configurations and price range."

For folks with no background in boating this is the worst advice in the world.

Folks that only have lived in dirt bound houses are used to an amount of room , and service levels that 'SEEM' only to be available on some big tub.

Bigger is NOT better on a boat , as the purchase , operating and maint costs and complexity,go up virtually with every inch .

At a boat show , yes! 60 ft looks like about the minimum,,to carry in a land based lifestyle , not to go cruising.

My advice is for folks to go to the Erie Canal and rent a simple canal cruiser for a week.

No experience is required a 1 hour underway instruction, and away you go.

No anchoring free tieups every night , loads of resturants (so the bride thinks its a vacation too) and wi fi if you need to stay in touch.

After a week on a 40 ft canal boat , a novice will have a far better idea of what is required , what is FLUF, in terms of inshore cruising.

And best of all they begin their boating , by actually CRUISING , not planning on rebuilding some big tub to seek adventures they have no concept of.
Or "living aboard" ,aground in land needs and desires,with only a "few more" toy Desirements to finance for the next decade , to be able to leave the dock.

FF


-- Edited by FF on Thursday 9th of July 2009 04:40:37 AM
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:49 AM   #29
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RE: advice re boat

FF:* In Pallares case he states he*has considerable boating experience citing several boats he has owned. His being from the PNW and wanting to go back there to boat makes the Seattle shows a natural. The Seattle cold & wet January show seems to draw more from the knot tie and slicker side whereas the Florida sun and ambiance seem to draw more the offshore fisherman, gold chain and boob job crowds. So my advice,*look over the area carefully*where you intend to boat.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:58 AM   #30
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RE: advice re boat

Here is another duck for sale. Add cost of shipping from Turkey or bring her home by sea.

http://dieselducks.com/41-plus%20Duck.html
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:51 AM   #31
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RE: advice re boat

Figures. When I wanted to buy a Duck in 2001, there were NO used ones on the market. I didn't really have the patience to have Seahorse build one from scratch. Now it appears there are several on the market, but I'm happy with my Krogen 42 now.
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:14 AM   #32
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RE: advice re boat

Quote:
Keith wrote:

, but I'm happy with my Krogen 42 now.
You damn well better be.* That is a very fine boat!!!!

*
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Old 07-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #33
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RE: advice re boat

"You damn well better be.That is a very fine boat!!!!"


It is nice , but the Duck was contemplated for Ocean Service , not sure a Krogen 42 would do a circle.

I know folks have gone round , with very carefully watching the weather , and never seen over 35K, but its being caught out that is a fear , as is range.

Trips to the Galapegos can require over 4000nm legs.

Then there is stabelization ,

Fine boat , but for a different style cruising.
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:39 PM   #34
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RE: advice re boat

I agree FF. Not everyone wants go around the world. If I were to do that, a Diesel Duck would be very high on my list. The KK42 is just a great cruising vessel....Island hopper with the legs to a little bit more extended passages.....weather considered.
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:05 AM   #35
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RE: advice re boat

I've been on a Duck. They serve their purpose very well - single handed or two at most. But if I had my druthers I'd do an around the world on a (somewhat larger than 42) Nordhavn or Krogen* and leave the Duck at home. Some like spartan, some like comfort. And some like to take friends and family without having them live and squirm*on each others lap for weeks on end. Perish the thought. Yeah yeah I know the Duck is low cost, but so is driving a 20 year old beater vs a new car. Different strokes.*
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:00 PM   #36
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RE: advice re boat

"I know the Duck is low cost, |

For a round trip ,, i would look for about a 50-60 ft steel cutter.

Steel cause nobody in the US understands them so they are cheap.

Cutter as there would only be 2 or 3 of us , and I like sailing fast.

With the usual Aux fitted , and fuel capacity of a 50-60 fter she would travel far cheaper than a Krogen or Nordy as the sail displacement hull makes no pretense about speed.
So the fuel burn at the same speed (SL 1.15 cruise) would be lower.

And I would expect the voyage to be done FASTER than with a Nordy or similar as the days where the cutter would be traveling at hull speed would knock time of the cheapo SL 1.15 the marine motorist needs to obtain some range.

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Old 07-11-2009, 01:06 PM   #37
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RE: advice re boat

HI FF...is there not an advantage to having a steel boat in the PNW where there are a lot of logs and dead heads??

thanx
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:09 PM   #38
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Frank---

Steel or aluminum does have an advantage in the PNW with regards to the debris in the water. Steel boats have their disadvantages, however, particularly in a recreational boat, by which I mean a boat that doesn't have a full-time crew aboard to deal with things like chipping or needle-gunning rust, painting, removing moisture from inside the hull, etc. We have friends who used to own a 70' converted steel fireboat. It was an ongoing task to keep the bilges dry. Most steel boats that develop rust problems rust through from the inside out, so it's imperative to keep the inside of the hull dry. Exhaust system leaks, rainwater, shaft log leaks, hull and superstructure "sweating," and a whole bunch of other things can conspire to put water in the bilge.

Aluminum is a very popular material in this area for commercial fishboats. They're not cheap to build, but they eliminate the rust issue of a steel boat and the bow can be built heavy enough to take the hits of logs. Unlike most recreational boaters up here, the commercial boats routinely run at night. Of course they can corrode so one has to be careful with the electricity on the boat. To see the products of an aluminum boat manufacturer in our area (northern Puget Sound) take a look at this website** http://www.rozemaboatworks.com/products.html*

Wood boats in the PNW, BC, and SE Alaska dealt with the logs, deadheads, and other debris in the water (including ice) by the installation of an external layer of replaceable planking on either side of the bow and often along the waterline as well. (see photos).

With a fiberglass boat you just have to be careful. This is one reason most recreational boaters up here don't make a habit of running at night, and when we do many of us have "log lights" which are permanent or removeable lights that illuminate the water ahead of us. The water doesn't reflect light back but logs, crab pot buoys, etc. do. The lights are mounted in such a way that they do not light up any part of the boat in front of the helmsman.

And of course, it doesn't matter what the hull is made of if you whack a prop or rudder into a log or wind a crab pot line around them. Steel, aluminum, wood, or glass, the end result is the same.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of July 2009 01:27:33 AM
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:35 PM   #39
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RE: advice re boat

thanx again verymuch...i think ...after talking to the harbour master in ana cortes...apparently there are quite a few boats that have been* repo by the bank so i think that's the way i will go...walk the docks and talk to a lot of people and then decide....so far from cayman and the internet i am heading towards a pacific tug type of boat in the 40-50 sice...but god knows what i will end up with when i actually start looking at boats...


again all your thoughts are greatly appreciated
fp
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:36 AM   #40
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RE: advice re boat

Be sure to check out the Nordic Tug if you are interested in a tug-type boat. They've been building boats up here since 1980 and today are available in lengths from the original 26' to 52' (I think that's correct). The most popular and numerous models are the 26', 32', and 37.' Another popular tug, but much newer to the market, is the American Tug. I believe they are available in 34', 41' and 49' (?) models.

Our favorite, and we have come come close to buying one in the past and have also considered selling our GB for one, is the Lord Nelson Victory Tug. No longer made, they were built in 37' and 49' models. In terms of quality, design, and aesthetics they are by far the best of the recreational tug models.
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