Additional Tankage (Fuel)

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I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....
 
I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....

The list of power boat brands, less than say 60 feet, that have successfully crossed oceans during the last century is very long. Much more than the heavily marketed three mentioned above. Remember the Cheoy Lee 48 (or so) that garnered some comments on TF about 4 months ago?

Not to mention there is far more to a successful crossing than initially fussing about tankage. Starting with crew capability and experience. A good read is the recent blog of Ron and Nancy Goldberg on their Nordhavn 50 "Duet". Their DIY skills are awesome.
 
I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....
Sort of contradicted yourself. Unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to purchase what you consider "passagemakers".
 
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Noted a Roughtwater 58 in Hawaii with a SINGLE 6/71, Niaid stabilizers etc. No pictures of engine room that I could see. It was the subject of a short thread on this forum, mostly about Varnish.



http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/sails-power-7219.html



Found a brochure, stated fuel, 1,200 gal. Stated Range 2,000nm.



http://www.roughwater.com/content/images/58/brochure/Roughwater583.jpg



Any thoughts, feedback.



2,000 NM range is based on 10.5 kt cruise. Lower the cruise speed and the Roughwater would have significant range.

With proper care, a DD 671 NA should last forever.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/19...hwater-58-2601336/?refSource=standard listing
 
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Beebe warns against assuming that stated Range is at the Stated Cruising Speed. Quite likely the stated Range is a much lower speed than the State Cruising speed.

Don't assume anything. Calculate it using flowmeters and be sure. Also, do not assume your fuel capacity. There have been a lot of 500 gallon fuel tanks sold that only held 460 gallons.
 
Open-d, I gotta ask- are you looking for advice per your original post or to argue away every viewpoint that doesn't match yours?

Lots of experience here, and IMO good advice has been offered. Is your only point to beat others into submission?

Just wondering, after re-reading the entire thread...
 
Don't assume anything. Calculate it using flowmeters and be sure. Also, do not assume your fuel capacity. There have been a lot of 500 gallon fuel tanks sold that only held 460 gallons.
Beebe also warns against those sort of assumptions as well!!! For example, the listing on Yachtworld apparently fudged the fuel capacity upping it from the factory-listed 1200 gallons to 1300 gallons. So many potential pitfalls.
 
Open-d, I gotta ask- are you looking for advice per your original post or to argue away every viewpoint that doesn't match yours?

Lots of experience here, and IMO good advice has been offered. Is your only point to beat others into submission?

Just wondering, after re-reading the entire thread...

None of the above.

Please don't re-appear on this thread if you aren't going to be positive.

I mean, you guys recommend Beebe, and when I cite what he says, the pissant comes out riding atop his high-horse, in holier-than-thou objection.

I really don't need or want your sort of "contribution".
 
None of the above.

Please don't re-appear on this thread if you aren't going to be positive.

I mean, you guys recommend Beebe, and when I cite what he says, the pissant comes out riding atop his high-horse, in holier-than-thou objection.

I really don't need or want your sort of "contribution".

What- you can't take an honest question for what it is, and instead see it as a negative?

When advice is requested, be adult enough to take it. You started the thread asking about transoceanic fuel capacity, and it seems you are not open to any vessel with a single engine. Fair enough- your choice.

I have 20 years in the professional marine industry, 40 years personal boating experience, and a decade plus as a liveaboard. I've been on transoceanic trips, and understand what is and is not needed. I don't share this to prop myself up, but as an example of the experience here that you can tap into.

Beebe is but 1 resource, as is Nigel Calder, David Pascoe, and others.

Best to you in your hunt.
 
Open-d - I’d encourage listening to understand over listening to respond. Lots of good advice here. Please listen. It’s all coming from those who wish you well and are willing to share their own experiences.
 
We indeed have some insurance experts on TF. Doing a TransPac and obtaining insurance for vessel and crew requires some degree of crew experience. So OpenD, have you consulted with an insurer as to your plans?
 
Can’t wait for conversation about heads...
 
None of the above.

Please don't re-appear on this thread if you aren't going to be positive.

I mean, you guys recommend Beebe, and when I cite what he says, the pissant comes out riding atop his high-horse, in holier-than-thou objection.

I really don't need or want your sort of "contribution".

Well, if his point needed proving, you certainly did so. Name calling and all, but you don't get to choose who participates in your threads. If you want to choose, you should stick to private messaging.
 
Bladders can be used and work well. Many delivery captains occasionally use drums. However, I'm going to point one thing out, even with a Hatteras.

Most builders have matched fuel capacity to uses they see as appropriate. I see the 42 LRC and just have to think that Hatteras didn't picture it crossing to Hawaii and perhaps it's not really a good boat to make that attempt in.

I think that is a REALLY good statement and concept to think about.

If a boat does not have the fuel capacity to do what you are asking it to do, perhaps the manufacturer never intended the boat to cross oceans.
 
Sort of contradicted yourself. Unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to purchase what you consider "passagemakers".

And I say this in all honesty, as a guy that originally got into the “trawler” game wanting a passagemaker to cruise the world, and bought a “coastal cruiser”

Perhaps you are asking too much from your dreams.

If ocean crossing is your the most important thing to you and you are budget limited then a sailboat is you tool for that endevor. Probably a reason why more sailboats cross oceans than trawlers.

If you can be satisfied coastal cruising the boat search becomes much funner IMO. Pick a platform you like, and go cruising.

No you cannot cross oceans, but you can travel a very long ways in a coastal cruiser. You can also ship your coastal Cruiser multiple times across an ocean a heck of a lot cheaper than the price differential between the same size Coastal Cruiser and the same sizer Passagemaker.
 
Here is a true long range trawler of 42'.
Summer Star has appeared in TF before. Originally built for a role in the 1970(approx) Vic Maui sailboat race, she carried enough fuel to make the trip at 5 knots, including bladders or other extra tankage. Nowadays the sail fleet averages lots better speed than any escort vessel and take along mandatory electronic safety gear, so no escort boats go along.
 

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Hi, Capt Dave owner of Swan Song here.

Swan Song started its life as a full displacement single screw Trawler. Sold as a North Sea 58 model back in 1975.

Owned by several folks who I suspect had great dreams about passage making but could never find the time to go very far. We bought it in 1998 in the British Virgin Islands. She had great bones: 2 1/2 " hull thickness tapering to 5/8" at the rails. It was built on the Taiwanese Offshore tuna fishing boat. Ed Monk Sr was hired to make the hull/deck into a suitable pilothouse trawler.

After a 5 year total refit she actually became suitable for crossing oceans.

Single DD 6-71 165 HP @ 1925 max rpm. Dry stack exhaust
38 X 28 3 bladed prop located behind the keel with a rudder supported by the keel extension.
Full displacement with 20,000 lbs of 3500/yd concrete. We weigh in at 104,000 loaded for a long passage.
10 KW genset, full air conditioning, 5 KW alternator driven by 2 kevlar belts.

Full nav gear both 'old school' aka SSB, etc to State of the Art gear like a fully redundant Fly by Wire engine operation and autopilot. No wheel or hydraulics in the Pilothouse. An Anti Roll Tank, ART which blows everyone's mind when the join us for an offshore passage, Totally passive and uses no power. Works underway or at anchor

We've stayed off a dock/land for as much as 60 days as she's self contained with fuel/stores/ water/ice cream.

Recently we made the run back from Honolulu, 2800 NM to long Beach. We had to drive around a bit to avoid so nasty weather but still ended up going thru 3 gales, 20+ ft seas and winds in the 35-50 knt ranges.
The down to the Panama Canal, up to Jamaica, over to Isla Mujeres and on to Ft Myers, Fl. a little over 8000 nm. Averaged 3.2 NM/gal! Damn efficient for a 50 ton boat!

Weather forecasting is still limited in anything over 10 days, IMHO, so long passages require a vessel that can stand up to the seas. We had several waves over the top and Swan Song just shoulders them off and keeps going at 2-3 kts.

SS's engine room has 6' 2" of headroom and you can walk around the engine with full engine room illumination. The slightest issue is easily seen plus we use and IR gun to shoot the manifold , belts and water. Hard to have something go astray with that level of visibility. Oh and we do it every hour!
We also shut it down at high noon everyday to check the transmission oil and diesel usage. We have a 300 gal 'day' tank....good for 4 days min....All fuel is polished when we refuel then its polished by a Gulf Coast filter as it get transferred to the 'day tank". Then its filtered from there thru a 10 micron Racor 1000 and lastly the DD on engine filter.
Little likelihood that she'd ever shut down from bad fuel ;-)

I'll stop here but just want to advise that the ocean is a place of it's own and you are but a speck on it. As an old delivery captain I've run hundreds of boats north and south and east and west with a few diagonal runs.

If you want get out offshore and make passages go see if you crew on a few deliveries. I used to always take along 1 crew who had a dream about sailing or powering around the planet. That's the way I got into this 40 years ago.
Less that 25% of the people ever wanted to get back on a boat offshore again!!

So this thread has lots of folks with tons of experience the needs to be understood and assimilated deep inside. Towboat won't come to get you nor will the Coast Guard. Once we left Hilo, Hawaii we never saw another vessel or a contrail till Catalina Island broke thru the fog 18 days mate.

Lastly you need an onboard air system and be experienced in using it in a 6-10 ft sea. We got trash on our prop 5 times and had to dive to free it....this is with a prop in aperture...hate to think what a couple of props that are exposed might catch today.

Sorry this is long but its really very very short....a Hat 42 LRC isn't going to let you sleep offshore. And if you do take it don't take anyone with you.....

Cheers
Capt Dave/Nancy
Swan Song
Custom Roughwater 58 North Sea
Lying in Ft Myers, Fl
 
Capt Dave
Nice summation and writeup. Your skills and experience are impressive. Question - if you were to buy a motor vessel made in past decade or so to do similar travels, which are on the shortlist?
 
I have done a few trips that required additional tankage on various different vessels.
We used

IBC 1000 litre containers for around $70 mounted in the cockpit of power catamarans

s-l1600.jpg


Blue 200 litre drums for around $15 mounted on side decks of various monohulled trawlers

s-l1600.jpg


Thankfully, we have 7000 litres and 3000nm range so shouldn't need to revert to these options but could and would if we had to.
 
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Hi, Capt Dave owner of Swan Song here.

Swan Song started its life as a full displacement single screw Trawler. Sold as a North Sea 58 model back in 1975.

Owned by several folks who I suspect had great dreams about passage making but could never find the time to go very far. We bought it in 1998 in the British Virgin Islands. She had great bones: 2 1/2 " hull thickness tapering to 5/8" at the rails. It was built on the Taiwanese Offshore tuna fishing boat. Ed Monk Sr was hired to make the hull/deck into a suitable pilothouse trawler.

After a 5 year total refit she actually became suitable for crossing oceans.

Single DD 6-71 165 HP @ 1925 max rpm. Dry stack exhaust
38 X 28 3 bladed prop located behind the keel with a rudder supported by the keel extension.
Full displacement with 20,000 lbs of 3500/yd concrete. We weigh in at 104,000 loaded for a long passage.
10 KW genset, full air conditioning, 5 KW alternator driven by 2 kevlar belts.

Full nav gear both 'old school' aka SSB, etc to State of the Art gear like a fully redundant Fly by Wire engine operation and autopilot. No wheel or hydraulics in the Pilothouse. An Anti Roll Tank, ART which blows everyone's mind when the join us for an offshore passage, Totally passive and uses no power. Works underway or at anchor

We've stayed off a dock/land for as much as 60 days as she's self contained with fuel/stores/ water/ice cream.

Recently we made the run back from Honolulu, 2800 NM to long Beach. We had to drive around a bit to avoid so nasty weather but still ended up going thru 3 gales, 20+ ft seas and winds in the 35-50 knt ranges.
The down to the Panama Canal, up to Jamaica, over to Isla Mujeres and on to Ft Myers, Fl. a little over 8000 nm. Averaged 3.2 NM/gal! Damn efficient for a 50 ton boat!

Weather forecasting is still limited in anything over 10 days, IMHO, so long passages require a vessel that can stand up to the seas. We had several waves over the top and Swan Song just shoulders them off and keeps going at 2-3 kts.

SS's engine room has 6' 2" of headroom and you can walk around the engine with full engine room illumination. The slightest issue is easily seen plus we use and IR gun to shoot the manifold , belts and water. Hard to have something go astray with that level of visibility. Oh and we do it every hour!
We also shut it down at high noon everyday to check the transmission oil and diesel usage. We have a 300 gal 'day' tank....good for 4 days min....All fuel is polished when we refuel then its polished by a Gulf Coast filter as it get transferred to the 'day tank". Then its filtered from there thru a 10 micron Racor 1000 and lastly the DD on engine filter.
Little likelihood that she'd ever shut down from bad fuel ;-)

I'll stop here but just want to advise that the ocean is a place of it's own and you are but a speck on it. As an old delivery captain I've run hundreds of boats north and south and east and west with a few diagonal runs.

If you want get out offshore and make passages go see if you crew on a few deliveries. I used to always take along 1 crew who had a dream about sailing or powering around the planet. That's the way I got into this 40 years ago.
Less that 25% of the people ever wanted to get back on a boat offshore again!!

So this thread has lots of folks with tons of experience the needs to be understood and assimilated deep inside. Towboat won't come to get you nor will the Coast Guard. Once we left Hilo, Hawaii we never saw another vessel or a contrail till Catalina Island broke thru the fog 18 days mate.

Lastly you need an onboard air system and be experienced in using it in a 6-10 ft sea. We got trash on our prop 5 times and had to dive to free it....this is with a prop in aperture...hate to think what a couple of props that are exposed might catch today.

Sorry this is long but its really very very short....a Hat 42 LRC isn't going to let you sleep offshore. And if you do take it don't take anyone with you.....

Cheers
Capt Dave/Nancy
Swan Song
Custom Roughwater 58 North Sea
Lying in Ft Myers, Fl




Capt Dave,


Thanks for that great post, few folks ever go bluewater once... less than 10% ever go again. Your living the dream.
HOLLYWOOD
 
Capt Dave
Nice summation and writeup. Your skills and experience are impressive. Question - if you were to buy a motor vessel made in past decade or so to do similar travels, which are on the shortlist?
Budget and your skill set are required to make any 'shortlist' for an individual.
Age of the build has little bearing on suitability. There are many older boats that were built with great bones and been refit/updated over the years that can make very suitable vessels for offshore use. And perhaps fit into a lower budget. There are also many newer ones that haven't been maintained and need refits/updates before they'd be suitable.
So comes down to you as an individual to either have the skills or acquire a good relationship with someone who has to help you in the hunt and guide you away from the sizzle. Better make sure that the steak is as good as the sizzle makes it sound ;-)
Knowledge and good choices make offshore passagemaking easier on your mind and pants when the going gets really really tough.Bailout options are few and far between ;-)

Cheers
 
Absolutely stuff can break. I see plenty of claims for stuff that fails (I work in marine insurance) and a fair handful are for mechanical issues- but the reliability of the marine diesel in this class of vessel is well established. Actuarial tables don’t indicate any trend in diesel breakdown to be alarmed about.

Love to hear the rest of the story on how an inboard FL 120 ingested a bag...
It is quite possible that a plastic bag got up the intake, blocking water flow to that engine, overheating it, and there goes #6 cylinder.
I have seen that happen, many times. The piston, connecting rod, valve push rods, and the rocker arm were smashed. The valve stems were bent. The cylinder liner was badly scored and also had to be replaced.
Very GOOD REASON to Keep a close Eye on your Temperature Gauges.
That was an Expensive engine rebuild that didn't need to happen to a really nice Perkins Turbo Diesel.
 
One comment about the Blue Drums.

They are fine for a trip , but after a year or two they will leak diesel. Don't ask!

Most were made for foods not diesel.
 
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