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Old 01-20-2016, 08:13 AM   #101
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I have to agree with psneeld - in that - The Newbies need to hear every side of every boating story. .
Most newbies would have given out a long time ago after deciding a guy like Tad Roberts is the one to listen to.

RT's picture of the big guys clearly illustrates the importance of trim on a smaller planing boat. Just go to Montauk (or Key West, San Diego etc) early on a Saturday morning to see creative ways to load big guys, gear and beer into a Grady White.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:12 AM   #102
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I've been considering adding ballast to correct a list to starboard our Gulfstar has. The gennie, hot water tank and waste tank are all to starboard. Three 8D's are the only counterweight to port. I think a fourth 8D may help. If not I wanted it anyway.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:37 AM   #103
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I've been considering adding ballast to correct a list to starboard our Gulfstar has. The gennie, hot water tank and waste tank are all to starboard. Three 8D's are the only counterweight to port. I think a fourth 8D may help. If not I wanted it anyway.
Do you let the waste tank sit full for extended periods?
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Old 01-25-2016, 11:55 AM   #104
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No. We have an MSD.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:02 PM   #105
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I've been considering adding ballast to correct a list to starboard our Gulfstar has. The gennie, hot water tank and waste tank are all to starboard. Three 8D's are the only counterweight to port. I think a fourth 8D may help. If not I wanted it anyway.
I think if you're going to add weight to your boat it should serve a useful purpose besides dead weight.

If you have spare anchors, chain or props, they can be moved to help correct a list as well.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:31 PM   #106
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Ballast IS dead weight...effectively used to counter list, fore/aft trim or lack of depth.


Movable boat components aren't really ballast...but certainly should be considered first unless additional weigh to float on her lines is required anyway.


Adding extra batteries or relocating existing certainly is a useful way of trimming if possible....but in some cases a small amount of "deadweight" in the right spot may be better than any other solution.
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:58 PM   #107
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Ballast IS dead weight...effectively used to counter list, fore/aft trim or lack of depth.


Movable boat components aren't really ballast...but certainly should be considered first unless additional weigh to float on her lines is required anyway.


Adding extra batteries certainly is a useful way of trimming if possible.
Extra batts are always very usable and often a welcome energy-item-required giving added weight... Repositioning of additional/new installations of furniture, coolers, fridge/freezer, tools, spare parts, more water/fuel, dry food storage, lines/chains, anchors, dink and/or it's small motor, fishing gear, BBQ and propane, closet areas, galley equipment, swim/scuba goods, fenders, tables/chairs... ... ... ...

Point I'm making here is that there are many, many useable/needed items that can be positioned as "useful-ballast" weight without bring in "dead-ballast" weight such as concrete, lead, bricks and the like. As we all know it does not take very much weight shift to change a boat's cantor regarding horizontal beam-level. Moving 100 lbs equal-distance from port to stbd = 200 lb axis change regarding boat-beam ballance in the water. Balancing act for trim of bow to stern can entail a bit higher net weight percentage of weight transfer. But, the axis 2X weight trim multiple is same when moving equal-distance from the axis.


Something as simple as where persons sit or sleep can at times do a lot for trim adjustments
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:22 PM   #108
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Actually NOT....some of our boats are laid out and we have decided what stays goes, and where it's gonna be stored.


A guy with 8 batteries on board...may not want any more...or it may take 5 more batteries at 150 pounds a piece to equal 200 pounds of ballast in the right spot as opposed to where the batteries would go. Dead weight ballast also may not affect stability as much as adding batteries if they could only go in higher places.


So NO....just moving crap around ISN'T the only answer for many of our boats which are more displacement than anything (or at least run in that mode most of the time)...sometimes dead weight ballast IS the best answer. I just gave an example that should make one TF member proud of actually keeping weight off a boat but trim it better.


This is completely insane....sure..... adjust cargo and systems when it makes sense...use dead weight ballast when it makes sense...if anyone thinks it is always best to never use dead weight ballast on a boat that is run in displacement mode then fine....I am out of breath and ideas to convey one of the most basic boating concepts.


I will concede that if you run your boat in semi-planning or planning often enough...then yes...break out the chainsaw and make it happen...


There is no POINT to be made...it takes a COMPLETE NEWBIE to not get any of this...the first time any of us that loaded a small boat either learned the easy way or the wet way....IT IS JUST NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second beer with lunch is my excuse and I am sticking with it....
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:22 PM   #109
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I SORTA AGREE WITH YOU!! < - - All Caps for ya, similar to ya... please notice.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:44 PM   #110
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Art,
Extra batts aren't good if the're not needed.

You only "Sorta agree" with him? What's not to like? I think he's 100% correct ... except the two beers for lunch. I'd give him credit when it's due.

When I worked at Uniflite I moved things arount to achieve trim but I never added dead weight ballast to a Uni.
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:01 AM   #111
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Actually NOT....some of our boats are laid out and we have decided what stays goes, and where it's gonna be stored.

A guy with 8 batteries on board...may not want any more...or it may take 5 more batteries at 150 pounds a piece to equal 200 pounds of ballast in the right spot as opposed to where the batteries would go. Dead weight ballast also may not affect stability as much as adding batteries if they could only go in higher places.

So NO....just moving crap around ISN'T the only answer for many of our boats which are more displacement than anything (or at least run in that mode most of the time)...sometimes dead weight ballast IS the best answer. I just gave an example that should make one TF member proud of actually keeping weight off a boat but trim it better.

This is completely insane....sure..... adjust cargo and systems when it makes sense...use dead weight ballast when it makes sense...if anyone thinks it is always best to never use dead weight ballast on a boat that is run in displacement mode then fine....I am out of breath and ideas to convey one of the most basic boating concepts.

I will concede that if you run your boat in semi-planning or planning often enough...then yes...break out the chainsaw and make it happen...

There is no POINT to be made...it takes a COMPLETE NEWBIE to not get any of this...the first time any of us that loaded a small boat either learned the easy way or the wet way....IT IS JUST NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second beer with lunch is my excuse and I am sticking with it....
This is just plain common sense. Even a cave man would get it.
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:08 AM   #112
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111 posts including Mr. Roberts and not one mention of Metacentric Height (GM) almost unbelievable.
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:23 AM   #113
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Why would most of us smaller boat rec guys discuss the fancy term?


Unless you do the testing to figure out the baseline numbers and plug them into a formula...it's all trial and error anyway as described in several posts.


The theory/formula use is discussed by many posts by the term "common sense".
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:31 AM   #114
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Actually NOT....some of our boats are laid out and we have decided what stays goes, and where it's gonna be stored.

A guy with 8 batteries on board...may not want any more...or it may take 5 more batteries at 150 pounds a piece to equal 200 pounds of ballast in the right spot as opposed to where the batteries would go. Dead weight ballast also may not affect stability as much as adding batteries if they could only go in higher places.

There is no POINT to be made...it takes a COMPLETE NEWBIE to not get any of this...the first time any of us that loaded a small boat either learned the easy way or the wet way....IT IS JUST NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second beer with lunch is my excuse and I am sticking with it....
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Art,
Extra batts aren't good if the're not needed.

You only "Sorta agree" with him? What's not to like? I think he's 100% correct ... except the two beers for lunch. I'd give him credit when it's due.

When I worked at Uniflite I moved things arount to achieve trim but I never added dead weight ballast to a Uni.
Eric - I stopped drinking over 20 yrs. ago.... Soooo, I just can't agree with everything he said (see his bear statement in bold above)! That's why I placed the "Sorta agree with him" clause into my reply. Otherwise I do agree with psneeld 99.99% - being a boy, I just gotta leave a little room for wiggle!

Happy Boat-Ballast Daze! - Art

PS: Two beers not so much - However, three to four beers at lunch can provide a "daze" such as I often refer to regarding various marine genera. It is said... one good drink can lead to another... until the word "good" is replaced with "fun" which may too often lead to the saying "Holy Shat", I've lost count!
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