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Old 01-16-2016, 08:01 PM   #21
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I added 500 pounds of what might be better described as trim weight to my boat. The boat has a port list as the galley, 2nd stateroom, one 50 gallon water tank and the 80 gallon waste tank all occupy space between the center line and port side of the boat. While trimming the boat could be accomplished with 100 to 150 gallons of additional fuel in the starboard tank, I prefer to have the boat closer to balance without relying on as much excess fuel. Acquired some lead counterweight plates from NASA and fastened them to the inside of the starboard hull behind the built in furniture. My guess is that 500 pounds is probably worth close to 100 gallons in the starboard tank. Very happy with the results!

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Old 01-16-2016, 08:03 PM   #22
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My father's 29-foot sloop weighed four tons and the ballast was two tons. Great for sailing in SF Bay's strong winds. Nevertheless, why add weight to a boat without a darn good reason? One good thing about a "trawler" is that extra weight has minimal effect.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:18 PM   #23
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This is fun... reading your posts!
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:26 PM   #24
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My father's 29-foot sloop weighed four tons and the ballast was two tons. Great for sailing in SF Bay's strong winds. Nevertheless, why add weight to a boat without a darn good reason? One good thing about a "trawler" is that extra weight has minimal effect.
Mark I agree but but a "minimal effect" is far from no effect. And repeated many times can have a large effect. Excess weight in trawlers or TF members is not good ... not good = bad.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:34 PM   #25
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I think minimal effect means almost no effect...not "far" from it.


Meaning something like....a moderate wind blowing against my boat has more effect than thousands of pounds of ballast....just a tiny current has way more.


It is a FACT I know ....the wind often has more effect than 3000 pounds of fuel/water aboard.


Planing boats...obviously a different story....


Totally agree with Tad Roberts simple summary...


"Adding ballast may make a boat faster or slower, more rolly or less so, more pitchy or less so, more or less stable, safer or less safe, more efficient or less so, more comfortable or less so....lots of variables."
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:27 PM   #26
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Al,
Art's got a planing boat and ballast is rarely required or desirable in a planing craft. I agree w Art. I'd say it's a sign that something's wrong. I don't know what Ski's talking about yet.[/QUOTE]

I will go with Tad's explanation. Thanks,
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:50 PM   #27
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Al,
The only thing TAD said that takes any kind of stand is "There's no good or bad" and I tend to disagree w that. The rest of his response is more or less a continuation of the first statement.
All ballast must have a desirable effect or they are not worth the added weight. And on a planing hull the desirable effect needs to be really important to justify actually adding weight. Your SD boat (bordering on FD) probably used the ballast nicely .. like my FD. But if ballast isn't carefully chosen re amount and placement it should be left on the beach.
Oh thanks for the flowers.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:08 PM   #28
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Pull all the lead ballast out of your boat and let us know how it works out for you Eric. My guess is you won't because you like how your boat floats on its lines.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:21 PM   #29
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Could a big 6cyl Perkins sitting very low in a 28' trawler style boat be considered as ballast when some boats the same had small 4cyl motors + 300kg ballast ?
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:08 AM   #30
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Nice thread! I too have 4000 lbs of built in ballast encapsulated in the hull, but have issues with my shower not draining completely after adding the anchor windlass and adding a bunch of chain. I estimate I must have added about 400 lbs right on the bow, and am now thinking I should add some weight to the stern (bilge) to get the balance fore and aft back so my shower will drain.

If you were going to add ballast in a non watertight compartment, what kind of ballast material would be advised? Looking for some opinions here. The shower used to drain completely when I powered up and made the stern squat, now I have to use a squeegee to push it down the drain. I could do without that...
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:35 AM   #31
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Could a big 6cyl Perkins sitting very low in a 28' trawler style boat be considered as ballast when some boats the same had small 4cyl motors + 300kg ballast ?
I would say yes. It is on the center line. It lays near or below the CG. We replaced our 800# (+-) Perkins 4-154 including 3:1 gear with a 1400#(+-) Perkins 4-236 and 2;1 gear. We had added prior to the engine swap, several hundred # of lead ingots. We felt satisfied at that time with the results. After adding the swapped engine, the stability became even more 'solid' during rolling motion. Solid, like heavy if you can picture.

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Old 01-17-2016, 12:41 AM   #32
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Nice thread! I too have 4000 lbs of built in ballast encapsulated in the hull, but have issues with my shower not draining completely after adding the anchor windlass and adding a bunch of chain. I estimate I must have added about 400 lbs right on the bow, and am now thinking I should add some weight to the stern (bilge) to get the balance fore and aft back so my shower will drain.

If you were going to add ballast in a non watertight compartment, what kind of ballast material would be advised? Looking for some opinions here. The shower used to drain completely when I powered up and made the stern squat, now I have to use a squeegee to push it down the drain. I could do without that...
Hi AKDoug- sometime from hearing from you! Any chance you can locate some junk lead in your area? If you can and have access to a 'rosebud' welding kit, you could create bread pan size ingots of near 30# using bread pans laced with aluminium foil (I think that would work) and place those where every you desire/(space). Then too, old boat zincs that are tossed away, while only about 2/3 the weight of lead, melted down can be easily stowed.
Old batteries work to, however most battery outlets take the old ones in and ship them out, might check though. It would be a project depending on how much # required.

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Old 01-17-2016, 12:51 AM   #33
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After adding a pilothouse, larger engine and larger fuel tanks aft, Panope needed several hundred pounds added up front.

Certainly, the addition of all that weight to the ends of the boat must have some negative affect on motion but to tell you the truth, I really do not notice it.

What I do notice is that I now stay toasty warm running the boat from inside a heated pilothouse and I can see over the bow.

I say add whatever ballast you need to make your overall boating experience better.

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Old 01-17-2016, 01:47 AM   #34
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I say add whatever ballast you need to make your overall boating experience better. Steve
Surely, that's the essence of this whole discussion. Having come out of yachts before my diesel trawler style cruiser days, I was well aware of the need for ballast to add to stability, stiffen the boat up against wind pressure, and make for self-righting characteristics. The latter two reasons not being needed for non-sailing vessels, it then does come down to firstly enough stability, then trim considerations, lastly maybe the actual period of roll, etc. for comfort.

So I am with Eric basically - add nothing that does not have a reason. The next trick is making it preferably fixed, so it does not move in a knockdown, especially if for stability.

With all due respect to Tad, and he would be the first to agree, I'm sure...his statement...

"Adding ballast may make a boat faster or slower, more rolly or less so, more pitchy or less so, more or less stable, safer or less safe, more efficient or less so, more comfortable or less so....lots of variables."

Is really just stating the bleedin' obvious, and begs the following questions of why, where, and how much..? And that's what people like him are for, of course.
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Old 01-17-2016, 02:04 AM   #35
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Doug,
If you have access to a tire shop they may have
a supply of used lead wheel weights you could melt down.

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Old 01-17-2016, 02:16 AM   #36
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Do all full displacement boat designs require ballast?


If not, why not... as compared to displacement boat designs that do require balast?
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:56 AM   #37
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Nice thread! I too have 4000 lbs of built in ballast encapsulated in the hull, but have issues with my shower not draining completely after adding the anchor windlass and adding a bunch of chain. I estimate I must have added about 400 lbs right on the bow, and am now thinking I should add some weight to the stern (bilge) to get the balance fore and aft back so my shower will drain.

If you were going to add ballast in a non watertight compartment, what kind of ballast material would be advised? Looking for some opinions here. The shower used to drain completely when I powered up and made the stern squat, now I have to use a squeegee to push it down the drain. I could do without that...
I have the same problem with my Defever 44, must use squeegee to evacuate water from the shower stall. This is even with a 700 lb dinghy hanging on davits on the stern. When I drained the water tanks for the winterization, the stern anode sits right at the water line. I have not heard of another Defever having this issue so I am resigned to having to add weight to the stern. Exacerbating the problem is the fact that I removed the stern fuel tank that sat below the bed in the aft cabin, probably somewhere between 750 and 1,000 lbs. Of course, this left a large open space in which to add ballast. My plan is to use lead birdshot that can be purchased in 25 lb bags. The shower did not drain properly even with that old, rusty tank in place. Stay tuned. It's on the schedule for this Spring.
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:02 AM   #38
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There is a big difference in ballast for trimming a boat and "added ballast"

On many boats as much as 10% of the keel weight will be in the form of ballast to trim.

It is removed or relocated as "stuff" is added to the basic boat.

If a boat is outfitted/used in a manner that does not add up to the designed displacement m, adding ballast might help handling .

A distance cruiser with monster tanks that are kept mostly empty would be an example
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Old 01-17-2016, 08:00 AM   #39
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. Is really just stating the bleedin' obvious, and begs the following questions of why, where, and how much..? And that's what people like him are for, of course.
A generic question rates a generic answer. But, if mindlessly pontificating as we amateurs tend to do, all sorts of gibberish will appear.
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Old 01-17-2016, 09:15 AM   #40
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...
On many boats as much as 10% of the keel weight will be in the form of ballast to trim.

It is removed or relocated as "stuff" is added to the basic boat.

...
I'm confused. On the boats I have owned the keel ballast is encapsulated. There is no way of moving any of the keel weight. If you're talking ballast in the bilge then I wouldn't consider it part of the keel. It's just ballast.

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