Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-14-2014, 01:59 PM   #21
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by drb1025 View Post
Thus, the idea of paralleling two Gp 31s to replace each 8D.
This is what I did and it works fine, as a plus if one battery is wonky in the future you can replace it by itself.

One of the 31's will start your engine with no problem so you could connect them with a 3 way switch for even more options while cruising out away.

I like options, independence and being self-reliant.
__________________
Advertisement

SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 02:11 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Chuck Gould's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dear Prudence
Vessel Model: Eagle 40
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 131
I'm a huge fan of Rolls batteries. They will cost you more up front, but maybe less in the long run. You might replace a Marine Store Special 8D every 4 or 5 years. The Rolls come with a 10 year warranty, and the first 7 years aren't even pro-rated. Full replacement if the battery fails before 7 years. Spend twice as much for a Rolls and get at least twice the life- and avoid the pain and strain of replacement. I know people who claim they are better than 15 years into a set of Rolls. We sold our last boat with Rolls batteries about 12 years old- still performing very well.

Obviously, the strategy doesn't pay off for somebody in the habit of trading boats every few years. You're unlikely to enhance the resale value by enough to cover the difference in cost if you don't keep the boat long enough to wear out a standard battery.
__________________

Chuck Gould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 02:22 PM   #23
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Gould View Post
I'm a huge fan of Rolls batteries. They will cost you more up front, but maybe less in the long run. You might replace a Marine Store Special 8D every 4 or 5 years. The Rolls come with a 10 year warranty, and the first 7 years aren't even pro-rated. Full replacement if the battery fails before 7 years. Spend twice as much for a Rolls and get at least twice the life- and avoid the pain and strain of replacement. I know people who claim they are better than 15 years into a set of Rolls. We sold our last boat with Rolls batteries about 12 years old- still performing very well.

Obviously, the strategy doesn't pay off for somebody in the habit of trading boats every few years. You're unlikely to enhance the resale value by enough to cover the difference in cost if you don't keep the boat long enough to wear out a standard battery.
How much are you paying for an 8D Rolls?

The internet prices I see start around $800....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 02:52 PM   #24
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
How much are you paying for an 8D Rolls?

The internet prices I see start around $800....
Cost Comparison:

Five years ago I outfitted our Tolly with four group 31 deep cycle marine batt and one Group 27 combo, for under $600; from a “Batteries Plus” store. All five batts are still performing well. I never let them discharge over 50% and check water in a few cells every 6 months (top off w/ distilled water once a year)... inexpensive, great service, easy piesie maintenance!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 02:56 PM   #25
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,361
My last Interstate 8Ds cost $152 apiece
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:11 PM   #26
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
I know all that...I wanna know if a Rolls only costs 2X more than my setup...then I can agree with the numbers game....but most of the time wet cells come in at a price that if you take care of them...they are hard to beat.

Just checking other tech or higher priced stuff to see if it has drifted down to be the better deal.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:13 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Chuck Gould's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dear Prudence
Vessel Model: Eagle 40
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 131
The two Rolls 8D in Dear Prudence cost me a total of about $1200, but I happened upon a special opportunity. About the time I was throwing out the two junk batteries the previous owners had been using, one of my friends in the business cleaned out a warehouse. Back behind a bunch of stuff that had been there for several years there were two brand new Rolls batteries. They are shipped "dry", so there was nothing in any of the cells but the lead plates. As the batteries had never been sold or activated, the full factory warranty was still available. We poured in the acid, put them on a charger, and they proved to be as good as new (which they were).

You can buy cheaper batteries, and frankly most people do. In my opinion, the Rolls are a push or better with buying cheaper stuff- especially when considering the cost and hassle of swapping out a standard battery once, twice, or maybe even three times during the usual life of a Rolls.

Biggest difference, as far as I can tell, is that the Rolls have larger and heavier plates. They also wrap each lead plate in a type of a sack that is permeable by acid. As the plates eventually degrade, and slough off remains in the sack. A lot of wet cell batteries fail when plates begin to disintegrate and enough debris builds up on the bottom of the cell to create a short.
Chuck Gould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:21 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Chuck Gould's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dear Prudence
Vessel Model: Eagle 40
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 131
Here's another perspective on Rolls pricing. It's pretty competitive with what some people charge for AGM batteries.

Search Results at West Marine
Chuck Gould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:28 PM   #29
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Gould View Post
The two Rolls 8D in Dear Prudence cost me a total of about $1200, but I happened upon a special opportunity. About the time I was throwing out the two junk batteries the previous owners had been using, one of my friends in the business cleaned out a warehouse. Back behind a bunch of stuff that had been there for several years there were two brand new Rolls batteries. They are shipped "dry", so there was nothing in any of the cells but the lead plates. As the batteries had never been sold or activated, the full factory warranty was still available. We poured in the acid, put them on a charger, and they proved to be as good as new (which they were).

You can buy cheaper batteries, and frankly most people do. In my opinion, the Rolls are a push or better with buying cheaper stuff- especially when considering the cost and hassle of swapping out a standard battery once, twice, or maybe even three times during the usual life of a Rolls.

Biggest difference, as far as I can tell, is that the Rolls have larger and heavier plates. They also wrap each lead plate in a type of a sack that is permeable by acid. As the plates eventually degrade, and slough off remains in the sack. A lot of wet cell batteries fail when plates begin to disintegrate and enough debris builds up on the bottom of the cell to create a short.
Cheapest I have seen a Rolls 8D...no shipping, internet price - $800

My heavy duty, top rated American 6V golf cart batt - $112.5x2= $225

Less than 1/3 as much, designed for numerous, deep cycles too. Not sure if the Rolls has independent cells ( I thought they did), but if one goes bad on me...I can replace 1/2 the batt.

They are 1/2 the weight, I can configure the shape better to suit my engine room.

While the Rolls are not a bad deal if you don't have to pay shipping and they truly last 15 years...many of us aren't willing to gamble on the longevity, or don't have a distributer near us, often have to buy one "on the road" do you get what you get, etc...etc...so we just settle into our routine and accept what we have in the bilge
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:35 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Chuck Gould's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dear Prudence
Vessel Model: Eagle 40
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 131
Yes, the Rolls have independent cells. That actually makes them easy to install in places with difficult access. Put one cell at a time into the battery box and then bolt them together. If a cell eventually goes bad, it's possible to replace a single cell rather than buy an entire battery. It's commonly understood that most of the time when a battery fails the problem can be traced to a single cell. If the cells can't be individually removed, a whole new battery will be required.
Chuck Gould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 03:38 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
HenryD's Avatar
 
City: Heading south for Ft. Myers
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Seven Tenths
Vessel Model: Mirage / Great Harbour 47
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 353
I replaced my 8 8Ds for house and 2 8Ds for start, with L16 6v batteries - I can get three L16's in the space of two 8Ds. They provide more amp hours overall because the total amount of lead is more. The L16s are taller so they do not work for everyone. The individual batteries weigh less (about 125lbs each) so are not as hard to move around. The batteries are designed for industrial use - scrubber/sweepers and Lifeline sells them in AGM. If I did not use these, the Rolls were my next choice.
HenryD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 05:24 PM   #32
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,729
The specs for our engine recommended a 4D or equivalent. The local Ford Lehman guru suggested an 8D because of the colder ambient and water temperatures. We got a deal on 3 Optima Red Tops. Since we were rewiring the house bank, we had the wire and lugs so it was an easy job. The bank has it's own 3 stage voltage regulator and alternator so there's no conflict with the T-105's (house bank).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	002.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	26680  
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 05:57 PM   #33
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
The specs for our engine recommended a 4D or equivalent. The local Ford Lehman guru suggested an 8D because of the colder ambient and water temperatures. We got a deal on 3 Optima Red Tops. Since we were rewiring the house bank, we had the wire and lugs so it was an easy job. The bank has it's own 3 stage voltage regulator and alternator so there's no conflict with the T-105's (house bank).

I bet those do the job!

Looks like a nice ship shape install.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 06:33 PM   #34
Guru
 
rochepoint's Avatar
 
City: Sidney BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Rochepoint
Vessel Model: 1985 Cheer Men PT38 Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
I'd rather see your windlass and crane running on your house bank though.
From my standpoint there should be zero loads on the start batteries other than starters.
Why do you think this? Our boat did have the windlass powered by the house(4 golf cart) batteries and every time we ran the windlass our GPS would beep and go crazy. Move the windlass power supply to the start battery(8D) and have had no problem with electronics since. We always have the engine running while using the windlass............
__________________
Cheers Mike Barge
MV Rochepoint
Sidney, British Columbia.
"Yes, I have the right anchor"
rochepoint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 06:58 PM   #35
Guru
 
Alemao's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers - FL
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: ORIGINAL
Vessel Model: Hi Star 55
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 629
I have two 8D for the motors (2 Cats 3208, 375hp), a house with 6 Troyans 6volts and another 8D for the crane, windlass and generator. Works well
Alemao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 07:11 PM   #36
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
When I called American Diesel...they basically told me a group 24/27 (depending on specs) for a Lehman 120.

I went up a notch in size.... and even in 20 degree weather it bangs right over with 850 or so CCA....physical size is around a group 27.

When I read the specs on Lehman starters...really a good group 24 should really handle it...but only in a perfect world.

Many of the big production guys like Sea Ray got away from 4Ds and 8Ds and went with group 31s in parallel to start and another as Batt 2 for backup...even to start their entire Cummins line in Rays up to 45 feet or so.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 07:12 PM   #37
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,563
I`m not against 8Ds at all, but installing/disposing @ 53 kg is a challenge.
My genset start batt has 150ah dimensions, (would you call that a 6D), puts out 1150CCA, I bet its predecessors 30 years back did half that, so a 4D would probably suffice. But it is back up, just in case, for the mains.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2014, 07:32 PM   #38
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by rochepoint View Post
Why do you think this? Our boat did have the windlass powered by the house(4 golf cart) batteries and every time we ran the windlass our GPS would beep and go crazy. Move the windlass power supply to the start battery(8D) and have had no problem with electronics since. We always have the engine running while using the windlass............
Simply because I want nothing attached to the start batteries that could drain them.

I have both a crane and a large windlass. These are tied to the house bank, and I suffered the exact thing that you reported. When running the windlass the voltage would drop to the nav system causing it to reboot.

To solve this I simply start the generator when running the windlass. The battery charger keeps things up enough to not bother the electronics.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 06:26 AM   #39
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,518
With caution the group of 31 can be fine, BUT the problem is they can never be asked to suffer deep discharges.
Or they will need rapid & frequent replacement.

Thats fine if a Sams club is the source , they check nothing , just hand you a new set 2x (the computer knows).

So the question then becomes what service use is the crane ?

5 -10 min of dink hoisting should not be a problem, an hour surely would be.

Discharge rate 50A? or 200A ?

Again a SOC meter would be a big help in understanding how hard you are hammering the set.

The spiral wound or AGM batts might be a better choice for long hard accessory use , and the charge back up quicker IF you spend the bucks to rapid recharge.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 09:42 AM   #40
Veteran Member
 
neworleansrich's Avatar
 
City: New Orleans
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalyst
Vessel Model: 50 ft Power Cat
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 77
If you are not paying around $400 for an 8D, it's not a deep cycle. A $150 8D is a starting battery with thinner plates.
__________________

neworleansrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012