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Old 05-17-2010, 01:15 PM   #81
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The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Dream Catcher

I threw out my Tundra (Dometic) and replaced with a superior designed Nova Kool - it has Marin's favorite Danfoss compressor

-- Edited by sunchaser on Monday 17th of May 2010 01:16:22 PM
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:59 PM   #82
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Our not too old Norcold died about 2 years ago and we opted for the comparable size Tundra. I gotta say it is a bit marginal on cooling. I have added venting behind it which helped. In all fairness I still am planning on shimming it out about an inch to give it the minimum clearance behind it that is recommended. The handle/ latches are pretty awkward. I wouldn't make the same purchase again.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:28 PM   #83
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

DC:
Danfoss or Adler Barber. Doesn't matter what brand of fridge you get, so long as it uses one of the DC only compressors.
AC/DC are RV units, that are designed to be AC, convert the DC to AC and lose efficiency in the conversion.
Before I converted from AC/DC my fridge was noisy, ran 50% of the time at over 8 amps (DC).
After conversion to Danfoss DC, it runs less than 50%, its quiet, consumes less than 3 amps. No change to the insulation.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:22 PM   #84
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:

It would seem to me that your bow roller is problamatic in that you indicated the need to secure the anchor to prevent a self launch.
Nope, according to the Rocna folks I talked to in NZ, it's the other way around.* They told me the anchor would sit with the shank up and wanting to launch and it would need to be held back.* Smith designed it this way on purpose--- in fact it's a characteristic they point out in their literature.

*
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:28 PM   #85
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

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nomadwilly wrote:And as it drags it should penetrate deeper and use the chain as resistance.

Eric-----

For a rather disturbing illustration of what a Bruce can do under a lot of pressure take a look at the video on the Rocna site.* They show the unsetting, hopping. setting, unsetting, hopping, setting, unsetting, etc. characteristic pretty clearly.* Rather than digging in as more pressure is applied, a Bruce can come out and start "skipping."
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:36 PM   #86
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Marin

You gotta love these infomercials.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:09 AM   #87
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:I like the idea of having to shove the anchor forward a bit to launch. *I feel more secure when the anchor sets on the roller good and secure.* Ever had one come off the roller in a heavy sea?

Not something I want to happen twice.
This reflects my philosophy. The only problem with this approach is when the anchor must be deployed in an emergency. In my case, I must go forward to disengage the chain stopper. Although I don't like the look of the anchor shank sticking up, a self deploying anchor that is operable from the pilot house, can be deployed quite fast. (Assuming it is not tied down, in which case you might as well have one that fits nicely in to the bow roller assembly.)


*
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:15 AM   #88
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
Marin wrote:They told me the anchor would sit with the shank up and wanting to launch and it would need to be held back. Smith designed it this way on purpose--- in fact it's a characteristic they point out in their literature.
This better illustrates my point in the previous post. You must go forward to launch the anchor.

*
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:25 AM   #89
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Hey Walt,

Stainless anchor and chain . Do I see galvanized shackle? Whats up with that?

SD
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:43 AM   #90
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Marin,I thought everyone agreed the Bruce was a good setter. After decades of Bruce anchoring w high popularity and a most prominent cruising guide writer supporting the anchor we are supposed to pay attention to some promoter that says the Bruce just bounces along the bottom? Even a large percentage of fishermen here in SE have a big Bruce on their bow. Fuel injection is better than carburetors and Rocna's are probably better than Bruce's. Two people that have cruised SE more than anyone I can think of is Old Salt and Mr Cook. I wonder what anchors they use and how many times they have failed them. The only anchor that I have deployed that hasn't failed me is the Danforth and Bruce. Despite the fact that my Bruce did bounce along the bottom for about 10' several times they both performed very well. And they were both "new generation" for long periods of time. Many guys on this site use the Fortress as a storm anchor, a high end "old generation" Danforth anchor. *The Kedge and Herreshoff anchors were "new generation" at one time and still work just as good as they did when they were new but they were heavy. Having said all that I will admit the Rocna looks good to me and if they were cheap and readily available here on POW Is I would probably try one. How much would a 22lb Rocna in galv cost?


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Old 05-18-2010, 09:57 AM   #91
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

West Marine online catalog lists* Rocna anchors and prices.*The Rocna is competitively priced and for anyone buying a new anchor should be a benchmark.

Galvanized alloy shackles are much*stronger than a similar sized SS. SS is not good for any part of an anchor rode except at the dock.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:52 AM   #92
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Anchors are a interest of mine. I have currently a CQR and a Bruce on our 40' Endeavour sailboat with a lofrans tigres windlass. I have not much confidence in either anchor for a real blow.
I have never had to anchor in winds over 25 knots yet so its only academic, but when I look at a lot of trawlers on yachtworld (pictures of course ) I see what I would consider very in adequate ground tackle. Now many of these boats, like me probably never had to anchor in high winds, yet is is always conceivable that it will be done.
Not having any experience with the FORFJORD anchor, what do you all think of that ?
The Navy seems to like the Fortress, and the new generation Rocna or Manson supreme are highly regarded by the people that use them. They sometimes say they set TO hard and fast, and bring up the sea bed when being retrieved.
A good wash down pump should take care of that....
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:06 PM   #93
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:I thought everyone agreed the Bruce was a good setter....... How much would a 22lb Rocna in galv cost?


Eric Henning

*
The Bruce does set well in a variety of bottoms.* That's the main reason we bought one right after we bought the boat.* The problem is when the pressure on the anchor becomes enough to pull it out.* The Bruce's very poor holding under high load is well establshed by countless anchoring tests.* Under a high load, when the anchor comes out it tends not to set again firmly but go into this set-unset-hop routine.* As long as the anchor is not required to deliver a lot of holding power--- which its design prevents it from doing--- it does just fine.* But under a high load, it pulls out and then the hopping pattern can begin.* This is what we experienced and is the main reason we were prompted to look for something better.

As to how much a Rocna costs, they are now carried by West Marine so you can look the prices up there.* They are Not Cheap.* We paid almost $900 for our Rocna 20 (44#) but this was a number of years ago when Rocnas were much harder to come by in the US.* In fact, we drove to Canada to get ours. * I suspect that with the much broader distribution Rocnas have today the prices have probably come down some since then.

*
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:16 PM   #94
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The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

*
Marin wrote:They told me the anchor would sit with the shank up and wanting to launch and it would need to be held back. Smith designed it this way on purpose--- in fact it's a characteristic they point out in their literature.
This better illustrates my point in the previous post. You must go forward to launch the anchor.

*
It will depend on how the anchor is carried on the boat.* In any event, I don't care if I have to go forward to launch the anchor.* I have to anyway to operate the windlass. We won't have a remote windlass control on our boat, nor would I use one if we had it.* We like to see exactly what the anchor and rode are doing going out and coming in.

What I do like abut the Rocna's balance is being able to simply release the preventer and the anchor is ready to go.* None of this leaning over the pulpit at an awkward angle to shove the anchor forward until it goes on it's own, juggling the power out and slack and how forward the anchor is to keep it from suddenly dropping off the pulpit and hitting the end of the chain with a jerk and then swinging into the bow and so on.* I simply release the preventer, step on the power out switch and the anchor slides smoothly off the pulpit and down into the water, all the time with tension on the chain.* No jerks, wild swings, etc.* Compared to the (minor) hassle of launching the Bruce, it's lovely.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 18th of May 2010 12:20:02 PM
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:38 PM   #95
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

SD:

That's an old photo....new SS swwivel....I know, I know, I shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system. ( It looks dams good and I don't anchor that much.)
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:55 PM   #96
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Holy flit Marin * * ... the Bruce's actually pull OUT?? Dragging a bit may/could be tollerable but pulling out of the bottom w appropriate scope and rode is totally unacceptable. OK Marin I'll stop talking about the Bruces. I looked at a big one on a fish boat about an hour ago and noticed the outboard tips were very blunt. I sharpened the point of my XYZ and am ready to try it again. I'll look at those Rocna's again * *.. if I can get a 20lb Roc for under $400 I may do it. I like the probability that they do rocky and mud bottoms both.

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Old 05-18-2010, 06:22 PM   #97
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

SD:

That's an old photo....new SS swwivel....I know, I know, I shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system. ( It looks dams good and I don't anchor that much.)
Please refresh my memory as to why one shouldn't use a swivel anywhere in the anchoring system.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:28 PM   #98
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Bob,Welcome to the chat house. We've been complimenting and worshiping each other for a long time now and that's a good thing for you as you can go back in the archives and learn a lot if your'e good at separating fact from the other kind of fact.
I have a small Forfjord Anchor. Only tried it once. It failed to hook up on what I suspect was a hard bottom as my XYZ anchor wouldn't set either. I'm not impressed when a heavy anchor won't set. My properly forged Danforth brand anchor hooked right up and held. I was on a shallow river delta in Rocky Pass west of Petersburg. The Forfjord is the most popular anchor on fish boats in Alaska. Fishermen don't analyze things * *.. they just do what more experienced fishermen do. I'd say 85-90% of the fishing fleet uses the Forfjord or the Bruce. You should know though that fish boats NEVER have small anchors. Frequently you'll see 100lb anchors on boats under 50'. SD * * .. do you think that's a fair statement?


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Old 05-18-2010, 07:33 PM   #99
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

Quote:
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Holy flit Marin * * ... the Bruce's actually pull OUT??
Eric---

Peruse the various anchor tests that have been run for years by magazines, the Navy, etc., etc., etc.* The Bruce is always at or near the bottom in terms of holding power.* In other words, they drag and/or pull out under loads that most other anchor designs can continue to hold.

The Danforth/Fortress is almost always at the top of the list in terms of holding power IF.... the tests are run in bottoms that are suitable for that design of anchor.* This is typically mud or sand or combinations thereof.

The advantage of anchors like the Rocna, Sarca, Manson Supreme, and perhaps other "new generation" anchors like the SuperMax is that they combine the "sets in lots of bottom types" ability of an anchor like the Bruce with the very high holding power of anchors like the Danforth/Fortress. Sort of a "best of both worlds" thing.

*
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:00 PM   #100
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RE: The 5 most useful improvements on your boat

And that's why they use heavy anchors Eric. Precisely because of the meaning of all the preceeding discussion. In other words, most anchors when really put to the test do badly, unless one uses heavy rode, preferably all chain, and a heavy anchor. The anchor then is seldom really ever put to the holding test...it's just sitting on the bottom marking the end of the chain. Fishermen don't often anchor - when they do they are always in a hurry - they want to ba able to just dump it daown and get on with whatever they need to do - weight talks - their boats can carry it. It's when things get nasty - which we all normally try to and do avoid - most of the time - that that results start to sort the wheat from the chaff. That is when these new generation anchors stand up and get counted. Most of the boats moored closish to shore that survived the tsunami in Thailand and alsewhere were swinging on Sarcas, for example.
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