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Old 06-14-2018, 10:14 PM   #81
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I dunno. Originally the way Thorhooked presented himself did sound kinda iffy. Kinda reminds me of the guy who posted here about looking for a trawler to motor from the West Coast to Hawaii and maybe further. That guy was at best wildly naive about what it would take to go that far in a trawler. While that guy got pretty viciously shot down, perhaps he was dissuaded from doing something risky and foolish.

While Thorhooked may be legit, the way he originally presented himself might have been less than completely obvious. The internet is full of trolls who make preposterous postings just to get a rise out of people. Without any context besides what was typed by the OP, readers of this forum can only make judgements based on what actually appears in this forum.

As mentioned by others, when asked for advice, are we supposed to be fully supportive even when we know better, or are we supposed to be realistic in our responses based on our individual (and collective) experiences?

Personally, in my view anyone who "preaches God's word" or "serves God's ministry" or the equivalent without actually living by that Word needs to be viewed with a critical eye. Requiring a multi million dollar executive jet or a boat that the average working stiff who they profess to be ministering to can only dream of raises red flags with me.

I work hard and make a decent living, but a 40 to 50 foot boat to do the loop (or anything else) is not in my future. Ever. And I do not expect any god to provide me with one either no matter how much I pray for it.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:49 PM   #82
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It also just occurred to me that if the OP was really interested in giving ministers a break from their responsibilities, $120-150K (boat plus estimated operating cost for great loop) would buy a lot of one week Caribbean cruises out of FL. Especially in the off season (prime loop cruisin' time), when bought in blocks and in advance. I'm sure the cruise lines would be happy to strike a deal. It would also be a lot less work for the OP than actually driving a boat around the great loop and all the hassles that would go with that. The FL cruise thing would help a whole lot more ministers than would be possible with the original plan proposed by the OP. Plus the ministerial guests would still get to be on a boat (er, ship).
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:49 PM   #83
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We're not being asked to approve the merit of the intended use. We're being asked about a boat choice.

The OP would be well advised to avoid proselytizing.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:22 AM   #84
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We're not being asked to approve the merit of the intended use. We're being asked about a boat choice.

The OP would be well advised to avoid proselytizing.


I went back and reread every one of Thorís posts. I didnít see him proselytizing. I did see him making expressions of his own faith in the language of his faith community. I never read anything that was an attempt to make converts of TF members.

There seem to be some TF members who are exceptionally uncomfortable if someone is open about their faith. Thorís comments have related to the idea of a boat search and have been more on-topic than many of our rambling discussions. For many, using the language of faith is not meant to be provocative, coercive, or evangelical. It is simply an inherent part of their language and is as natural as breathing. Think of it as almost a dialect.

Maybe Thor will recognize that some are made uncomfortable and annoyed by it and try to modify his language? Maybe others will try to exercise tolerance as well. Communities of all kinds work best when individuals try to avoid being excessively annoying, and try to avoid being easily annoyed.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:57 AM   #85
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My last post on this subject. Reiterating that I do not believe believe in ORGANIZED religion. I believe in God and helping fellow man. I will not support any organization, religious or not in searching for a luxury item that will be paid for by donations. Clearly when additional motives are involved, ie: family vacation comes to mind, hiding behind a religion is way too convenient.

“God will provide”. What exactly does this mean? A boat? A car? An rv? No. God provides a sense of belonging, not material things.

He stated 3 cabins. 1 for him and his wife. 1 for his kids. That leaves only 1 or too pastors on board in the 3rd cabin. ?? Does this really make sense?

The 75ft yacht “ no kid n” is for sale. I had a tour of her. 4 staterooms, 4 crew quarters. $699,000.00 Lazara. Now that would be a better fit.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:07 AM   #86
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This thread is pretty humorous.


Banter/conflict over what side to take [conservative or liberal / e.g. believer or non believer] and the reasons for taking one side or belief or another route is soooo similar to politics.


Then there is always middle of the road... just like politics.


I opt for middle ground here. Thor may really believe his "procedure" will be a benefit to all. Who am I to judge? Sometimes the mind works in mysterious ways... sorta like God... cause after all, we were created in the likeness thereof - and, I sure do NOT mean physical.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:12 AM   #87
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Most of you are missing the most important question needing answered!!
What anchor will be on His boat

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Old 06-15-2018, 12:09 PM   #88
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If someone wants to try to do some good in the world...more power to him. And if he's the guy doing it...he gets to choose how to apply his intentions.

My comments were mainly financial, as I think th tax implications of his plan are really interesting. Even if he doesn't seek donations...if he formed a non-profit, he could donate his own boat, and write it off as a charitable contribution. Instead of him buying fuel, he donates money to the non profit, takes the deduction, and the non profit buys the fuel.....food...maintenance....everything could be run through the non profit. He could probably even donate investments in kind and avoid paying capital gains on them. Then the non profit could pay him for his time with the proceeds of those assetts. This is even better than the tax dodge that pro athletes get from forming their own foundations.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:59 PM   #89
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Thorhook,

I suppose we shouldn't expect much better treatment, aye? . Historically, Christ (whether one believes he was the savior or not), was crucified by the world much the same. Matt 5:10.
I don't normally chat religion or politics - but it's true - we tend to kill anything that is good. History seems to be repeating itself today.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:52 PM   #90
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Cary Grant was awesome. Who else from old Hollywood fits that billing? He was also in a movie called Houseboat. Was that a trawler? How’s that for changing the topic?
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:10 AM   #91
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I don't check in on Trawler Forums very often and reading this thread reminds me of why.

So the OP's big sin was that in post #1, he stated what he wanted to do with his trawler.

Several years ago, I had a minister contact me from BC and he wanted a trawler for ministerial work in Central America. I sold him a boat that was in Newfoundland. Once he got to Central America, he started a website with pictures of his ministering to locals in areas not easily accessible by land. His crew was his wife and 2 children (maybe 10 & 12?). While I was skeptical of his goals, I would occasionally check his website and I gotta tell you, I was impressed with his success in meeting his goals. We never discussed religion, just finding an appropriate boat for his purpose. Not sure the OP deserved getting 5 pages of mostly unrelated responses to his request for help from this group.

Tough group here. Surprising and disappointing.

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Judy I would have to agree with you many of these folks I have felt like they are my brothers and sisters for the past 5 years and this thread has certainly shocked me to see some of the responses
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:15 AM   #92
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I went back and reread every one of Thorís posts. I didnít see him proselytizing. I did see him making expressions of his own faith in the language of his faith community. I never read anything that was an attempt to make converts of TF members.

There seem to be some TF members who are exceptionally uncomfortable if someone is open about their faith. Thorís comments have related to the idea of a boat search and have been more on-topic than many of our rambling discussions. For many, using the language of faith is not meant to be provocative, coercive, or evangelical. It is simply an inherent part of their language and is as natural as breathing. Think of it as almost a dialect.

Maybe Thor will recognize that some are made uncomfortable and annoyed by it and try to modify his language? Maybe others will try to exercise tolerance as well. Communities of all kinds work best when individuals try to avoid being excessively annoying, and try to avoid being easily annoyed.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:16 AM   #93
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Cary Grant was awesome. Who else from old Hollywood fits that billing? He was also in a movie called Houseboat. Was that a trawler? Howís that for changing the topic?
It was not a displacement hull LOL
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:50 AM   #94
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Judy I would have to agree with you many of these folks I have felt like they are my brothers and sisters for the past 5 years and this thread has certainly shocked me to see some of the responses
I think there's one important difference in how various of us see this. Some see it as religion vs. non-religion and as a war between religion and not. Others see it as the introduction of religion into a boating forum vs. sticking to boating.

Some feel those disagreeing with posts by the OP crossed the line and others including religious members felt his posts crossed the line, but then that's the entire reason of not discussing religion or politics or social issues in certain places.

Some take it as a personal affront when someone starts talking about God providing them a boat. Others take it as a personal affront when someone questions the motives of the person talking about a boat for religious purposes.

You end up seeing various views and, it's true, you find out things you wish you didn't find out about others. The reality is it all could have been easily avoided by not introducing religion into the discussion.

I admire those who use their religion to do good things for others. I might even like hearing about your religious practices in another place. In that time and place we might be willing to discuss our religious views which we would never discuss in this forum and might well surprise you.

The same thing that you find has happened to you in this thread has happened every time politics has been introduced into the forum. We find out things about others here we wish we didn't. If you got into political discussions with some of those here you think share your religion you'd then be shocked and disappointed. Social views fall into the same areas of guaranteed conflict.

Community rules say "discussions about politics, religion and weaponry are likely to be closed or removed if they turn into flame fests and are only permitted in the Off The Deep End Forum."

There's a reason for that.

We don't participate in facebook and one of the reasons among many is learning things about acquaintances we'd really prefer not to know. These are people one may interact with regularly and find to be pleasant but if one read their facebook posts find them to be filled with ugliness and hate. I have relatives who present themselves as loving and kind and religious and who I grew up loving. However, I've heard such despicable views from them that I no longer want anything to do with such hateful people.

This forum is for boating discussions. Anytime it strays the potential of what you've felt from this thread is there. I would add one thing. You really haven't learned about those you've known 5 years in this thread. You've gotten snippets, perhaps those you find offensive. However, you haven't sat down with them to really understand each other. You haven't had an in-depth discussion to understand each other's views. You have no background. No person can be summed up in 140 or 280 characters or in a single post on a forum. They may not be the sweet loving souls you thought they were but also not the hateful soul you've seen in their post.

Threads get off topic all the time. When they stray to dental care of to anchors or to favorite coffee, damage isn't done. When they stray to religion or politics, damage is often done.

I will be glad to discuss my views with you in private, but not on a public forum.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:35 AM   #95
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I think there's one important difference in how various of us see this. Some see it as religion vs. non-religion and as a war between religion and not. Others see it as the introduction of religion into a boating forum vs. sticking to boating.

Some feel those disagreeing with posts by the OP crossed the line and others including religious members felt his posts crossed the line, but then that's the entire reason of not discussing religion or politics or social issues in certain places.

Some take it as a personal affront when someone starts talking about God providing them a boat. Others take it as a personal affront when someone questions the motives of the person talking about a boat for religious purposes.

You end up seeing various views and, it's true, you find out things you wish you didn't find out about others. The reality is it all could have been easily avoided by not introducing religion into the discussion.

I admire those who use their religion to do good things for others. I might even like hearing about your religious practices in another place. In that time and place we might be willing to discuss our religious views which we would never discuss in this forum and might well surprise you.

The same thing that you find has happened to you in this thread has happened every time politics has been introduced into the forum. We find out things about others here we wish we didn't. If you got into political discussions with some of those here you think share your religion you'd then be shocked and disappointed. Social views fall into the same areas of guaranteed conflict.

Community rules say "discussions about politics, religion and weaponry are likely to be closed or removed if they turn into flame fests and are only permitted in the Off The Deep End Forum."

There's a reason for that.

We don't participate in facebook and one of the reasons among many is learning things about acquaintances we'd really prefer not to know. These are people one may interact with regularly and find to be pleasant but if one read their facebook posts find them to be filled with ugliness and hate. I have relatives who present themselves as loving and kind and religious and who I grew up loving. However, I've heard such despicable views from them that I no longer want anything to do with such hateful people.

This forum is for boating discussions. Anytime it strays the potential of what you've felt from this thread is there. I would add one thing. You really haven't learned about those you've known 5 years in this thread. You've gotten snippets, perhaps those you find offensive. However, you haven't sat down with them to really understand each other. You haven't had an in-depth discussion to understand each other's views. You have no background. No person can be summed up in 140 or 280 characters or in a single post on a forum. They may not be the sweet loving souls you thought they were but also not the hateful soul you've seen in their post.

Threads get off topic all the time. When they stray to dental care of to anchors or to favorite coffee, damage isn't done. When they stray to religion or politics, damage is often done.

I will be glad to discuss my views with you in private, but not on a public forum.
Brilliant post.
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:02 AM   #96
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I would add one thing. You really haven't learned about those you've known 5 years in this thread. You've gotten snippets, perhaps those you find offensive. However, you haven't sat down with them to really understand each other. You haven't had an in-depth discussion to understand each other's views. You have no background. No person can be summed up in 140 or 280 characters or in a single post on a forum. They may not be the sweet loving souls you thought they were but also not the hateful soul you've seen in their post.

I was thinking about this again the other day. While we learn about forum members to a certain degree, it is different than being able to interact with them face to face over an extended period. We all project a persona to the people around us. If you are with someone long enough you get past the mask and begin to get a better understanding of who they truly are.

On a forum, folks tend to create a personality, much like an avatar. It is how they wish to be viewed by others. We learn a lot about the avatar, but not necessarily about the person behind it. I have to say, that I REALLY like most of the avatars that folks project on TF. Even if they are idealized versions of themselves, it tells me about their ideals, tells me about what they think is important in social interactions.

Iíll use BandB as an example. They value their privacy so we know little about them. That doesnít matter. BandB may not actually be the educated, successful, generous, fun-loving and loving couple that comes across in their posts. The could really be some overweight 50 year old woman living in her Motherís basement with a good imagination and exceptional research skills. It doesnít matter to me. I get pleasure and useful information from their posts.

This post is REALLY off-topic and not relevant to anything. All it does it is demonstrate that dhays is really just an OVOID (Old Verbose Overweight Ignorant Dude).
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:19 AM   #97
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I was thinking about this again the other day. While we learn about forum members to a certain degree, it is different than being able to interact with them face to face over an extended period. We all project a persona to the people around us. If you are with someone long enough you get past the mask and begin to get a better understanding of who they truly are.

On a forum, folks tend to create a personality, much like an avatar. It is how they wish to be viewed by others. We learn a lot about the avatar, but not necessarily about the person behind it. I have to say, that I REALLY like most of the avatars that folks project on TF. Even if they are idealized versions of themselves, it tells me about their ideals, tells me about what they think is important in social interactions.

Iíll use BandB as an example. They value their privacy so we know little about them. That doesnít matter. BandB may not actually be the educated, successful, generous, fun-loving and loving couple that comes across in their posts. The could really be some overweight 50 year old woman living in her Motherís basement a good imagination and exceptional research skills. It doesnít matter to me. I get pleasure and useful information from their posts.

This post is REALLY off-topic and not relevant to anything. All it does it is demonstrate that dhays is really just an OVOID (Old Verbose Overweight Ignorant Dude).
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:06 PM   #98
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Iíll use BandB as an example. They value their privacy so we know little about them. That doesnít matter. BandB may not actually be the educated, successful, generous, fun-loving and loving couple that comes across in their posts. The could really be some overweight 50 year old woman living in her Motherís basement with a good imagination and exceptional research skills. It doesnít matter to me. I get pleasure and useful information from their posts.
Wifey B: Overweight? 50 year old?

Your point is so on target about forum avatars although not sure most are targeting their ideal or better than they are. Some represent themselves poorly as they don't filter what they say. It's a lot easier to be rude and difficult when not facing the other person. Many post not as if they're talking to people but as if they're talking to numbers or paper or something. Some assume tough guy personas online when in person they're far more gentle.

Behavior in the real world in controlled by our need to protect ourselves. You don't blast your boss like you might someone online over some subject, because you need the job. You select your words far more carefully in your social settings.

I think of one person in particular who was fairly universally disliked here and run off and yet those I know how have met him in person speak very highly of him. Not sure what he was trying to prove but he failed.

I think back to when I first read Oliver's posts and then suddenly found out he was 14. Still one of my favorite dudes but his knowledge far exceeded what expected and he was probably accepted for his expertise easier here than those here might have done in person. Here we only saw a small facet of the totality of Oliver. The forum didn't get to know the teen.

As it applies to this thread, I think if we'd all been sitting around talking in small groups, many of the posts would have been replaced by far more careful wording. Most care more about not offending others than comes across online.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:10 PM   #99
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Yes, excellent points. Once disadvantage is that online posting can mess with our social filters at times.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:27 PM   #100
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Behavior in the real world in controlled by our need to protect ourselves. You don't blast your boss like you might someone online over some subject, because you need the job. You select your words far more carefully in your social settings.

Far too often we just interact with our environment.

To French-speaking if there are some out here, ęTrop souvent, nous ne sommes que le produit de notre environnementĽ.
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