Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-20-2014, 01:58 PM   #41
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Not knowing diddly bout its build-out quality nor bottom design... I can tell that seems to represent a mid sized seafaring craft with personality and general top side designs I appreciate and would not at all mind owning! Heck Mark might even like this one - sans FB of course... - LOL
Just for grins, I called the Vinette Boat Works for some background. T.D. Vinette's son explained that the boat is one of 17 built in the 43' series. They view it as a displacement+ hull shape...closer to displacement than the semi-displacement grouping. We didn't get to the quarter beam buttock stage.

The boat was originally purchased as a bare hull/cabin structure by a gent who subsequently had a heart attack and died while working on the interior. T.D. Vinette's brother- in-law then purchased the boat and had it hauled back to the Vinette yard to have the engines fitted. He then hired his own carpenter to finish it out....hence the one-off single stateroom where the original design had two S/Rs forward. The second carpenter survived. I asked if he thought the boat might be haunted...he said he didn't know for sure.

The boat has done the loop several times, but Mr. Vinette thought the hull was still solid from what he knew about the boat. "Regardless, it's easy to cut out any bad sections and weld in new metal", says he. He said he's had many calls from interested buyers. You want the history of a boat you're interested in purchasing...buy a Vinette.
__________________
Advertisement

Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 04:29 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Nick14's Avatar
 
City: Portland OR
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
I suppose this makes me an anomaly.

Then I'm also an anomaly right there with you Mark.

(BTW, I believe American Tug is selling about 10-12 new boats a year, from what they told me when I was there about a year ago).
__________________

__________________
Nick
Nick14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 04:35 PM   #43
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,722
I see what looks like a chine crease fwd and nothing speaks of FD except for possibly her convex/curved stem. Looks a bit like a sailboat because of it. But I'll bet she's a fairly typical SD hull.


Re the W36 if there was a cabin configuration I liked I would probably have one. There was a W36 available for $65K and I was strongly considering pursuing it but the very high pilothouse put me off that course. The view from up there is great though. Stabilizers just makes a boat too complex and takes it out of the "handy" category that I seem to need.

But re marketing/selling one now a lower pilothouse w good visibility may move more boats. The W36 is a FULL disp boat making no pretenses at being SD at all so is very speed restricted, however being longer than my W30 is is a bit faster. If the space on board was designed wisely and balanced toward interior space It's hard to imagine one finding it lacking in that regard as it's a big 36' boat.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 05:02 PM   #44
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
I see what looks like a chine crease fwd and nothing speaks of FD except for possibly her convex/curved stem. Looks a bit like a sailboat because of it. But I'll bet she's a fairly typical SD hull.
Here are some photos of a Vinette 36 flat out at about 8-9 mph. We couldn't see evidence of lift happening....seems to be sinking deeper in the water. Yeah, it's probably got some SD goin' on, but not very much. And this boat has a nice easy roll reversal unlike most hard chine SD. The bottom doesn't look all the different from the Coot from what I can tell, and the at-speed photos I've seen of the Coot look very much like this boat. In any case, it's a very nice riding and handling boat. This one has a single Cummins. By the way, T.D. Vinette built many sailboats in their day, and still do one here and there.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1343.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	101.1 KB
ID:	26768

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1344.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	101.6 KB
ID:	26769
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 05:24 PM   #45
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Skidgear, looks to me you're driving the boat too hard: it is "sinking" as you pointed out. Dropping one or two knots would greatly reduce fuel consumption. (No doubt you know that.) If my 80-h.p. JD 4045 was turbocharged, I could duplicate your photos with the Coot.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 05:35 PM   #46
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Skidgear, looks to me you're driving the boat too hard: it is "sinking" as you pointed out. Dropping one or two knots would greatly reduce fuel consumption. (No doubt you know that.) If my 80-h.p. JD 4045 was turbocharged, I could duplicate your photos with the Coot.
Yes, we were purposely pushing the hull to see how it would react. Believe the boat has a 1964 vintage 160 HP NA Cummins. The Vinette is brother-in-law's boat. I was on the chase boat taking photos and making notes. Long trip with nothing else to do. He normally runs it well below what's depicted in the photos. Love the ride and heavy weather characteristics of that boat.
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 05:47 PM   #47
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
...

But re marketing/selling one now a lower pilothouse w good visibility may move more boats. The W36 is a FULL disp boat making no pretenses at being SD at all so is very speed restricted, however being longer than my W30 is is a bit faster. If the space on board was designed wisely and balanced toward interior space It's hard to imagine one finding it lacking in that regard as it's a big 36' boat.
Greater beam will increase interior space despite limited length. "Fat boy" Coot has a 13-foot beam despite it's 35'8" hull so a decent walkaround deck doesn't cramp the interior.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 06:22 PM   #48
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonstruck View Post
Well, at least they staged it to show nicely. I thought the full ash tray and bucket by the bed were nice touches.
Don: The trouble with you is that you have no appreciation for rugged, masculine individualism!

Thanks to the original poster, by the way, for presenting the thread just as he did. It sparks a lot of enthusiastic feedback with so many good points. Ted (OC Diver) and I had the opportunity to discuss the thread over dinner. It's nice to have a TF member around to throw those ideas into the pot.

I won't bother to review the great points, but I have to concur that big boat-maker marketing certainly has side-stepped the full displacement design. If one is serious about blue water cruising, the limited alternatives like KK, Nordhavn, Diesel Duck and custom builders seem to be there to take care of business for a price. Meanwhile, the power-boat charter companies, especially in the Caribbean, are funding a whole new generations of spacious catamarans that feature FD economy at slow speeds with 20 knots available. What is marketing and resort-type cruising teaching the retiring baby boomers about boating? I'd love to be listening-in on the board room meetings of outfits like Beneteau.

I don't know where we're headed, but I'd bet that the price of fuel will have a lot to do with it, even if it's not the most significant boat expense. Even then, we'd need to get rid of the glut of used opportunities out there now.
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 07:46 PM   #49
Guru
 
pilothouse king's Avatar


 
City: St. Lucie VILLAGE -NOT- Port St. Lucie!!!!!
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 15' Hobie Power Skiff w/90hp Yamaha-owned 28 years. Also a 2001 Bayliner 3788 that I took in trade
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidgear View Post
Interesting steel hull Vinette waiting for the project minded...might have good bones if it's been full time fresh water, which many of them are. Looks like it even has a pilot house. I'm very familiar with their 36...nice sturdy boats.

1979 Vinette 43 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Rat Rods and rat bikes are all the rage now. Why not a "rat boat"? It's got that natural "patina" people seek. If the thing runs, I say, just buy and use it. Add to the patina. Where somebody will make the mistake is instead of just buying and going-they'll start doing restoration work, and will likely never finish, nor go anywhere. Riverbend Boat Yard in Ft. Lauderdale used to be full of big sailing boat projects and I watched guys go from skinny young long hair dudes to fat balding old men STILL working on "getting the boat ready", and they never went anywhere other than to that boatyard year after year after year. New Yard owner ended up cutting up and disposing of many of them when he decided to "wash out the old".
There's a Yard up in Labelle and Ft. Pierce with boats of similar ilk right now-where boats go to die.
I bought a 50' 1928 Trumpy sailboat back in 83 (the Summer of Tanqueray I called it) that I found in a boatyard in Tarpon Springs. A total POS (fir over oak with iron nails-in Florida!)the yard said, but I had a Greek Yard there put a couple of planks and ribs in her, along with a 12v refigerator..the boatyard said "that's all we're going to do, I wouldn't take my family out in her is all I can say, good luck but GOODBYE" after only a week in the yard. Sailed her off. Her spirit came alive!!! She sailed and sailed, FAST, never did anymore work to her other than when her engine broke down in Marco Island, and a old timer realized it was a old WWII motor from a Jeep in her, and eradicated that one last demon, and all was good. I played with her for a year, sold her to a local coke dealer in Miami, HE played with her for awhile, and years later I was coming back from the Bahamas and saw the old girl with a bunch of old guys wearing orange PFDs heading out the cut. I asked "hey, where you going?" MAINE was the answer.
Yep she was alive, but one could also spent a "forever" making her nice and she probably would had eventually died an old maid in a yard somewhere like the boats at Riverbend.
__________________
.
Blake Davis Yacht Brokerage Inc

Yacht Broker/Owner since 1984, Florida License #32
pilothouse king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 07:52 PM   #50
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Very well said, Pilothouse King. I'm embarrassed to admit that my boat was ready to go cruising when I bought it three years ago, and now, thanks to my incessant projects, is not.
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 08:01 PM   #51
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
Very well said, Pilothouse King. I'm embarrassed to admit that my boat was ready to go cruising when I bought it three years ago, and now, thanks to my incessant projects, is not.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 09:29 PM   #52
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,722
One indication that the Vinette's not FD is that she's got twice as much power as a FD boat that size would require. And the wake shown would require 160hp to make. However if her aft end is like Mark's Coot it is indeed a FD craft. As before I suspect that she's SD like most all trawlers. Here's Willy at full power and it can be seen she's only throwing about 25% as much wake and her wake at the stern is very different.

FD SD whatever I sure like the boat. I like the GB and 32 NT too and if I had either would want to change the shape of the stern and ditch half the power.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	all to 12-15-09 424 copy 5.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	196.0 KB
ID:	26770  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 10:33 PM   #53
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,983
Yo, Ladies and Gents...

The trick is to get a used (maybe even a "classic") boat at a great price that is already in really good condition because either the PO (maybe even the OO) kept her totally maintained. Or, such a boat in good condition because someone else already burned themselves out on during restoration/improvements over the last couple/few years; then they simply got spun-out for one reason or another and decided/needed to sell.

These affordable, very good condition used boats are not always easy to locate... but they do exist and via careful search/research techniques I can find one if I really desire to. Additionally, the purchase of such a boat does help their seller by taking it off their hands - cause they either really want to, or really need to sell.

It would take a whole new thread to review what steps need be taken to locate a boat such as described above. The phases/steps/research proceedures/techniques for gaining success in this type boat purchase agenda are in a world unto themselves. Basis of procedure: 1. Patience / 2. Persistence / 3. Marine-Knowledge / 4. Good Attitude / 5. Work! Oh yeah, and did I mention PATIENCE?? Cause, if you’re lucky it will take a short time, or if you’re almost as lucky it may take years... one way or the other you are actually just as lucky when you find and purchase The Correct Boat!

Otherwise... ya can always pull out the ol’ check book and purchase a Brand New Good Brand Boat. But, I suggest, DON’T purchase a $$Money$$ Sink Hole “old tub of a craft” that needs ongoing repairs and upgrades... forever – It could/would eat you alive!!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 10:37 PM   #54
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
One indication that the Vinette's not FD is that she's got twice as much power as a FD boat that size would require. And the wake shown would require 160hp to make. However if her aft end is like Mark's Coot it is indeed a FD craft. As before I suspect that she's SD like most all trawlers. Here's Willy at full power and it can be seen she's only throwing about 25% as much wake and her wake at the stern is very different.

FD SD whatever I sure like the boat. I like the GB and 32 NT too and if I had either would want to change the shape of the stern and ditch half the power.
Yes, the boat has a huge excess of installed power. Big engine room...fuel was free in 1964...probably bought it at some kind of a deal...who knows. But our little experiment showed what happens when it's applied. The hull digs a hole, throws a huge wake, and hits a speed wall. Those are not characteristics of a typical semi-planing hull. The manufacturer says it's displacement. Our little test showed it sure acts like one. Whatever....here's a photo of the boat at normal cruise power.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1348.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	137.5 KB
ID:	26771
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 11:05 PM   #55
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
The Coot, easily driven at 6+ knots:

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:27 AM   #56
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,531
Very well said, Pilothouse King. I'm embarrassed to admit that my boat was ready to go cruising when I bought it three years ago, and now, thanks to my incessant projects, is not.



Boating as a hobby is very inclusive , messing around in boats can be as much fun as actually using the boat to travel.

ENJOY,
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 11:59 AM   #57
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,722
Skidgear,
The Vinette may be digging a hole as you say but the boat is not squatting at all. I see her running quite level in your pics. That indicates to me that the after plane of the hull is most likely horizontal (or nearly so) and probably quite flat. She may even have trim tabs deployed. And those hull characteristics are not elements of a FD hull. It's almost certain that the transom is down 6" or more into the water.

The above is merely a good guess and it could be a FD hull after all but I seriously doubt it. Hull photos will be needed for confirmation.

Lots and lots of trawler owners think their boat is FD but in actuality very few are. Most all sailboats are FD but not trawlers.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 09:43 AM   #58
Guru
 
Moonfish's Avatar


 
City: Port Townsend, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Traveler
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 702
Cheoy Lee 46 LRC wake at 7 kts, our typical cruising speed. She's definitely FD!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-2978663170.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	37.7 KB
ID:	26824  
__________________
Darren
Port Townsend, WA
m/v Traveler - '79 Cheoy Lee 46 LRC
http://www.pacificnwboater.com
Moonfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 11:43 AM   #59
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
Man sometimes you guys can beat a dead horse so much the damn thing comes back to life... only so you can beat it to death again!

Full displacement.. semi displacement who cares! for most of us the way we use our boats it will not matter squat! My new to me Ocean Alex is a "semi displacement" hull that is overpowered according to some here.. 40' x 270hp @ 2700rpm. It will do 11+ kts on a good day going down hill @ the throttle stop. Since it was sold to me with full tanks I don't know what it carries for fuel... but I do know @ 1600/1700 rpm where I feel it is in it's sweet spot it goes 8.3-4 kts and uses so little fuel I DONT CARE.
Most SD hulls when ran conservatively burn close to the same rate as the same length FD hull.... but typically have a lot more interior space and do not roll like a pig when a nearby seagull farts.
As for economy... I got my well equipped (except for the electronics package that must have been bought second hand from Noah) 40' two stateroom Europa "trawler" for under $ 40k... the previous owner paid $ 121,000 in 2007 and I have receipts for $ 66k of improvements done since 2007. There are deals on boats out there.

I plan to run the boat to at least Mexico in the future and possibly further South then East. My boating hobby as to fit into the life budget I have that includes flying, motorcycles, cars, keeping the Admiral happy with other travels.

I don't think I have been happier all around on a boat because of what this one can do vs. the cost of the boat. Volunteer was totally a FD boat that did 7.8-9 kts @ 2.4 gph but the cost of ownership was much greater and the Admiral didn't really like the boat.

Personally you couldn't give me a FD ( round bilge ) boat unless it had the as some here feel " too complicated" stabilizers.. either passive or active. And I still want at least 30%-50% more power at hand than is needed to run the thing to hull speed.

My personal rant is now complete.

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2014, 12:45 PM   #60
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,983
HollyWood - Perf!!
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012