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Old 01-18-2014, 11:48 AM   #21
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You may be just ahead of your time, Randy. Give it another 10 or 15 years when we have $500/barrel oil, $25/gallon diesel. You may have a few takers then.
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:19 PM   #22
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You may be just ahead of your time, Randy. Give it another 10 or 15 years when we have $500/barrel oil, $25/gallon diesel. You may have a few takers then.
By that time that happens we will be powering our boats with 6 axis motion generators.
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:55 PM   #23
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Unfortunately it won't work because you have to compete against this...

2014 Beneteau Swift Trawler 34 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

It's going to be really hard to convince folks to pay more and go slower. The Swift T 34 was priced at $390k, now they are down below $350k and saying "please call for current pricing".....Beneteau is loosing money on each of these....small builders can't compete.
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Old 01-18-2014, 02:35 PM   #24
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Unfortunately it won't work because you have to compete against this...

2014 Beneteau Swift Trawler 34 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

It's going to be really hard to convince folks to pay more and go slower. The Swift T 34 was priced at $390k, now they are down below $350k and saying "please call for current pricing".....Beneteau is loosing money on each of these....small builders can't compete.
And the used boat market is killing all but the top tier
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:08 PM   #25
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Hey, this is great stuff! Thanks you guys! I'm enjoying reading all the feedback on this. Our short look into this venture brought up many of the same issues. Some of you guys brought some more interesting points forward that we had not heard. Cool! I think the builder (ex-custom home builder) side of me, is interested in a challenging project. And back in the late 70's my dad had a custom 44', aluminum FD trawler designed. That was after selling a 40' Santa Barbara and before buying a Willard 40'. I agree, the 36' would not be a profitable venture in this market and the cost of the build today. And as we still have the W40 for cruising, I'm in no rush to jump into a "sinking ship". See ya,
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:16 PM   #26
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[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post

Unfortunately it won't work because you have to compete against this...

2014 Beneteau Swift Trawler 34 Power Boat For Sale - Boats for Sale, New and Used Boats and Yachts - YachtWorld.com

It's going to be really hard to convince folks to pay more and go slower. The Swift T 34 was priced at $390k, now they are down below $350k and saying "please call for current pricing".....Beneteau is loosing money on each of these....small builders can't compete.[/QUOTE]
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And the used boat market is killing all but the top tier
Agreed!

IMHO - Only folks with $$$ to burn (and probably not too great a background in marine doings) will purchase brand new "comfortable cruiser" pleasure boats in 32 to 40 foot range / $300K to $550K category. And, those boats had better move pretty darn quickly too, ya know... like cruise 16 to 18 + knots and top out in high 20's or better. Not too many people want D 8 knot cruising boats. Boat market is saturated with some really great condition used boats (D, SD, and P hulls)... I know, cause... very affordably... we own a really cool classic Tollycraft P hull, twin screw, tri cabin that meets all our current boating needs!

Best luck in your search for a business to enter!

PS: Boat link in Tad's post has some similarity to our 34' Tolly TC... but not the overall room for creature comforts... and the price is 10X.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:47 AM   #27
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Completely missed in this thread so far is there currently is a 35' full displacement boat on the market. The Seahorse Marine Coot. Why spend $500k on the new Willard 36 when I can pay $350k for a Coot? The steel Coot avoids the problem with building molds.

There's only been 6 Coot's launched of the 8 built that I'm aware of. I'm fairly sure Seahorse would be willing to deal on the two shells built a couple years ago awaiting finish in their yard right now.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:00 AM   #28
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The steel Coot avoids the problem with building molds. .
A NEW and slow steel boat may be an even tougher sell. As pointed out by psneeld, there are many very nice 45 to 50 foot FRP used vessels in the $400K range where the biggest depreciation hit has already been taken.

Plus the used vessels may already have most of the extra $100K+ for dinghy, instruments, anchor, genset, thruster, heater, AC etc installed.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:45 AM   #29
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Everyone has made some very interesting and spot-on comments, the most pragmatic of which might be the observation that full displacement smaller size boats have a tough time succeeding in the market. Sometimes, if you offer something that no one else does, you have found an unfilled niche and can profit. But, in this case, there may be a reason why there is a dearth of small FD trawlers on the market.

Up until recently retiring, I was one of those boaters who chose semi-displacement designs, for the simple reason that our time on the water was limited, and our cruising area was much greater going 15 kts vs. 7 kts (that, and my wife said she was 'going crazy' the times I tried going 7-8 kts). Now being retired and having more time, I could see being in a FD boat, both for the functionality and because I have always just liked the looks much better.

Imaging life in a FD boat, I think I would want more room than a 36 ft hull would provide, especially since we would be spending more time in it. I wonder if maybe there might be a niche if the design was along the lines of the original Willard 36, a "pilothouse" style which was different from the traditional either aft-cabin or sedan styles out there. I personally think the style is very neat, I would look at it just because it was different and felt 'shippy'. But, I've never been on one, and don't know how many people would actually open their wallets for one. It seems that for $500k, there's a lot of larger, better-known competition, but if you could figure out how to make it for maybe something in the mid-$300's, there might be demand for a handful. Name:  Willard36.png
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:10 AM   #30
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Ranger tugs would be a good yardstick for those that have cruised and decided cramped is OK or those that think cruising cramped is OK and they are saving big $$$$ buying a boat too small for their real needs....and of course there are those few that think the look neat and have the money to waste on something they don't need at all!!!!
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:23 AM   #31
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Again, IMHO...

Coot and other new boats of this nature are fine examples of how-to/where-to purchase extremely nice and relatively affordable examples of "Trawler" inspired cruisers for the pleasure boating community. And, I agree with CP that Coots' sturdy material provides a good level of economy during building.

However, as sc implies in post # 28 and I refer to in post #26... boat purchasing market is awash in tens of thousands good condition and visually/emotionally/cruiseably attractive second hand pleasure crafts that hold decades of usefulness still in their bones and that come stocked with a plethora of expensive as well as general-use equipment aboard - at many X less cost than any new-boat/new-equipment can provide at today's manufacturing/sales costs.

As Tad mentions in Post # 23... "It's going to be really hard to convince folks to pay more and go slower. The Swift T 34 was priced at $390k, now they are down below $350k and saying "please call for current pricing".....Beneteau is losing money on each of these....small builders can't compete.

As psn mentions in post # 34 ... "And the used boat market is killing all but the top tier."

As RB, the OP to this thread (2015 New Willard Trawler 36) clearly concludes/mentions and ends his post # 25, with a form of a good bye... "I agree, the 36' would not be a profitable venture in this market and the cost of the build today. And as we still have the W40 for cruising, I'm in no rush to jump into a "sinking ship". See ya,"

Basically it will take years (decades) of simply “TIME” before enough of the currently good condition pleasure cruisers will meet their makers in Boat Heaven for the used-boat heard to downsize amply and then create real need and desire by the general boating community (middle of the road people) to again build a fire under mid range pleasure boat building. Of course the top tier of real wealth will probably always keep many of the very expensive super yacht builders afloat!

Sooo... if we look at mid range (30’ to 65’) pleasure boating as a whole... Buy Used; cause ya just can’t beat da deals currently on the market!


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Old 01-20-2014, 10:29 AM   #32
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The problem is with a $500,000 boat , it must IMPRESS the friends of the purchaser.

There is so little difference in cookie interiors that there is little that is impressive.

BIG is impressive , so the folks with 1/2 a new buck will frequently opt for larger , and with loads of helm room to have electric gadgets strewn about.

Crossing oceans in a 40 ft boat is far easier in a well found sail boat.

The used market is of little interest to those that can afford new , as new has status , used is used.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #33
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Completely missed in this thread so far is there currently is a 35' full displacement boat on the market. The Seahorse Marine Coot. Why spend $500k on the new Willard 36 when I can pay $350k for a Coot? The steel Coot avoids the problem with building molds.

There's only been 6 Coot's launched of the 8 built that I'm aware of. I'm fairly sure Seahorse would be willing to deal on the two shells built a couple years ago awaiting finish in their yard right now.
Interesting steel hull Vinette waiting for the project minded...might have good bones if it's been full time fresh water, which many of them are. Looks like it even has a pilot house. I'm very familiar with their 36...nice sturdy boats.

1979 Vinette 43 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:15 PM   #34
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Interesting steel hull Vinette waiting for the project minded...might have good bones if it's been full time fresh water, which many of them are. Looks like it even has a pilot house. I'm very familiar with their 36...nice sturdy boats.

1979 Vinette 43 Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Well, at least they staged it to show nicely. I thought the full ash tray and bucket by the bed were nice touches.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #35
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Again, IMHO...

Coot and other new boats of this nature are fine examples of how-to/where-to purchase extremely nice and relatively affordable examples of "Trawler" inspired cruisers for the pleasure boating community. ...

However, as sc implies in post # 28 and I refer to in post #26... boat purchasing market is awash in tens of thousands good condition and visually/emotionally/cruiseably attractive second hand pleasure crafts that hold decades of usefulness still in their bones ...

Sooo... if we look at mid range (30’ to 65’) pleasure boating as a whole... Buy Used; cause ya just can’t beat da deals currently on the market!
Happy Boaten Daze!
I suppose this makes me an anomaly.

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Old 01-20-2014, 12:53 PM   #36
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Isn't the American Tug 365 still available for purchase new? How many are they selling?
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:05 PM   #37
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Well, at least they staged it to show nicely. I thought the full ash tray and bucket by the bed were nice touches.
If they showed it nicely, it's unlikely the price would be where it is. As I said earlier, it depends on the bones. But it looks like a variant on a displacement hull if that's what floats one's boat. Someone mentioned pilot house, and someone else mentioned a project boat....well there it is in one ratty package. Good looking profile in any case..
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:13 PM   #38
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I suppose this makes me an anomaly.

No, that makes you the previous owner of my next boat
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:15 PM   #39
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If they showed it nicely, it's unlikely the price would be where it is. As I said earlier, it depends on the bones. But it looks like a variant on a displacement hull if that's what floats one's boat. Someone mentioned pilot house, and someone else mentioned a project boat....well there it is in one ratty looking package. I'd bet the Vinette yard, which is still in business, would even convert that thing to a single for a reasonable cost. Good looking profile to boot...
Not knowing diddly bout its build-out quality nor bottom design... I can tell that seems to represent a mid sized seafaring craft with personality and general top side designs I appreciate and would not at all mind owning! Heck Mark might even like this one - sans FB of course... - LOL
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:20 PM   #40
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I suppose this makes me an anomaly.

Mark - What would ever make you think That??? Stand proud my man, and, congrats on being different than most!! It's All Good!!!
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