2 Stern Lights....?

[psneeld]

I told you what it can be mistaken for...

I don't care....have fun at the hearing if you are so sure one answer from one guy overrides the simple pictures and concept of the Navrules (published by the USCG).

PS...I taught USCG Captains licensing for 5 years, did that one guy you got a quick email from? By the way, what office was he froma?

 

[LN-RTP]

And pointless. There's no possible advantage to having the lower-level light.

Hmm, how is it pointless?
More light, more safety. (In bad visibility)

 

[psneeld]

Wrong, can be confused with vessels of other rule priorities.

 

[boatruptcy]

This is absurd. If something bad happens the all around and transom light may be called into question...ha! Well your honor if he only had one visible light I would not have rammed him, but hell I saw two lights and just had to gun it into his transom.

Enough for me, cheers guys, I'll take my chances at the "hearing ". All the best op.

 

[LN-RTP]

I told you what it can be mistaken for...

I don't care....have fun at the hearing if you are so sure one answer from one guy overrides the simple pictures and concept of the Navrules (published by the USCG).

PS...I taught USCG Captains licensing for 5 years, did that one guy you got a quick email from?

Ok, you made up your mind, no dual stern lights come hell or high water.

I sure would like to kick it upstairs and get a ruling on it, if needed. (According to you it is needed for sure)

As far as having fun at the hearing: You are suggesting my stern light being illuminated will lead to accidents?
How so?
Did you ever get out of the classroom and do real world boating in sh!tty conditions? Less lights are better.?

 

[psneeld]

Ok, you made up your mind, no dual stern lights come hell or high water.

I sure would like to kick it upstairs and get a ruling on it, if needed. (According to you it is needed for sure)

As far as having fun at the hearing: You are suggesting my stern light being illuminated will lead to accidents?
How so?
Did you ever get out of the classroom and do real world boating in sh!tty conditions? Less lights are better.?

20+ years operational USCG then 20 years professional 100 Ton master with 14 as a assistance tower captain. 5 years teaching licensing and 15 years teaching boating safety classes concurrently with operational time.

Plus 5 years running my own delivery business and now 8 years snowboarding NJ to FL.

Good enough?

 

[Arc]

From a practical point of view, I think 2 stern lights could be confusing. If directly astern it may look like 2 boats following each other. At an angle it may look like a space between 2 boats. A go fast might try to make it , only to find out it is one boat and he is speeding into the quarter. Kaboom.

 

[LN-RTP]

20+ years operational USCG then 20 years professional 100 Ton master with 14 as a assistance tower captain. 5 years teaching licensing and 15 years teaching boating safety classes concurrently with operational time.

Good enough?

Wow, impressive resume, you are 100 years old?

You probably have connections high up so send this question to the top as the Miami CG officers are obviously ignorant.
(Seriously, I was not sure either, after years of boating and 4 or 5 ticket renewals. Still not sure, but with the above answer from the Miami CG, at least I have something to hang my hat on.)
I strive to be in compliance being ex military and ex merchant marine, I really want to know but in the meantime, my ass light goes on when the sun goes down, 360 mast head included.

 

[psneeld]

Have fun......

 

[LN-RTP]

From a practical point of view, I think 2 stern lights could be confusing. If directly astern it may look like 2 boats following each other. At an angle it may look like a space between 2 boats. A go fast might try to make it , only to find out it is one boat and he is speeding into the quarter. Kaboom.

Well, the stern light will illuminate the transom, which may eliminate confusion as the boat becomes more visible.

 

[boatruptcy]

From a practical point of view, I think 2 stern lights could be confusing. If directly astern it may look like 2 boats following each other. At an angle it may look like a space between 2 boats. A go fast might try to make it , only to find out it is one boat and he is speeding into the quarter. Kaboom.

Did you seriously type that with a straight face? A go fast going to try to split that 15' difference thinking it's two boats? How is he going to see transom light at an angle?

Like I said, absurd.

 

[LN-RTP]

Have fun......

A bit snarky are we..?

 

[psneeld]

So no need for navlights, just illuminate your boat to avoid confusion at sea.

 

[Arc]

Did you seriously type that with a straight face? A go fast going to try to split that 15' difference thinking it's two boats? How is he going to see transom light at an angle?

Like I said, absurd.

You obviously never boated on the Great South Bay. 15’ is considered a fairway.

 

[LN-RTP]

So no need for navlights, just illuminate your boat to avoid confusion at sea.

Jeez, of course not, but you knew that.

 

[psneeld]

Thus my point that more is not better if it can be misinterpreted.

As far as the USCG answer, I was serious about who you contacted.

Calling customer service at some business doesn't get you the right answers is all situations either...

I often follow up on answers that someone got from Joe Coastie that was incorrect and have to go to the right office.

You always get the same answer for whatever question you have from the FAA?

 

[LN-RTP]

Thus my point that more is not better if it can be misinterpreted.

As far as the USCG answer, I was serious about who you contacted.

Calling customer service at some business doesn't get you the right answers is all situations either...

I often follow up on answers that someone got from Joe Coastie that was incorrect and have to go to the right office.

You always get the same answer for whatever question you have from the FAA?

The FAA rules are fairly straight forward, never had to ask anybody for an interpretation.

I sent a link to this thread to the USCG Officer who approved/authorized the
2 or more aft/stern Nav Lights.

I am just the messenger

 

[psneeld]

Me too.....

 

[RT Firefly]

 

[Dougcole]

I just went through this mental exercise myself, though my boat is barely over the 12 meters. The light mounted near the top of my transom is almost always obscured by my dinghy and wide rub rail. There really isn't a good alternative location for it where it is more visible. My masthead anchor/steaming light burned our, so I replaced it with an all around light.

Is it strictly legal? No. Could it confuse someone if by some weird chance they were in the exact position that they could see both my Sten lights and happened to be looking? I suppose.

But reality is that I'm far more visible from behind with the all round, and if someone thinks I'm 6 inches shorter than I actually am, it's not a big deal.

Maybe someday I'll get checked and get a ticket from some officer who is having a really bad day and won't listen to reason. I doubt it. If I do I will pay the fine. I'd rather be safer than perfectly legal in this case.

I'm considering disconnecting the stern light.

I did get pulled in my old boat once, which is 36 feet, for having the stern light obscured. He told me to lower the dinghy down some and be careful.

 

[rslifkin]

At a distance, I'd be concerned about someone confusing it for the (allowed) dual masthead light setup. Masthead lights will come into view before side lights in most cases, so the lack of side lights visible from behind wouldn't necessarily avoid that confusion.

 

[SoWhat]

Ignore this guy OP, he thrives on online bickering and needs major attention.

No, he just needs to be right.

 

[BruceK]

No, he just needs to be right.

No,to be contrarian.

 

[LN-RTP]

At a distance, I'd be concerned about someone confusing it for the (allowed) dual masthead light setup. Masthead lights will come into view before side lights in most cases, so the lack of side lights visible from behind wouldn't necessarily avoid that confusion.

Sure, you can build a case for a worst case scenario like the above.
On the other hand, if you are overtaking somebody, with their transom being lighted up showing name and hailing port as well as a 360 white above the cabin top, and you suspect it is a head-on because Red/Green could still be below the horizon..

 

[CaptTom]

Hmm, how is it pointless?
More light, more safety. (In bad visibility)

This is absurd. If something bad happens the all around and transom light may be called into question...ha! Well your honor if he only had one visible light I would not have rammed him, but hell I saw two lights and just had to gun it into his transom.

The FAA rules are fairly straight forward, never had to ask anybody for an interpretation.

The Nav rules are clear, too. Anyone who's earned a credential shouldn't need to ask for an interpretation. You can read it yourself.

You can't just make up your own rules because they seem to make more sense to you. If there's any kind of an accident, your lights WILL be called into question. It's a pretty standard tactic. Lawyers know this, even if you don't.

If you think your boat isn't visible enough at night, then by all means, turn on some deck lights or underwater lights or anything else that doesn't look like a navigation light. The rules not only allow, but encourage this.

But by carrying two stern lights, you're not following the rules, you're not improving safety compared to the deck lights I mentioned, and you're inviting confusion and possibly even legal liability.

Just follow the rules. It's not difficult and it's not unsafe. As I said, doing otherwise seems pointless.

 

[boatruptcy]

If you're so ignorant that you cause an accident because of a stern light and an all around light, you have no business anywhere near a helm. The regs don't say you can't have both and a coast guard rep indicated it's not an issue.

 

[LN-RTP]

. You can't just make up your own rules because they seem to make more sense to you. If there's any kind of an accident, your lights WILL be called into question. It's a pretty standard tactic. Lawyers know this, even if you don't.

Who made up their own rules..?

 

[tozz]

Who made up their own rules..?

Rule 23a(iv) is clear. A power vessel under 50 meters shall exhibit "a sternlight". Singular.

Two can be confused with a power vessel over 50 meters exhibiting two masthead lights.

23d(i) is also clear. A power vessel less than 12 meters may "in lieu of" lights prescribed in paragraph A exhibit an all around white light.

Just follow the rules. We have enough problems dealing with people that don't even understand who is stand on vs give way in a simple crossing situation.

 

[boatruptcy]

I feel sorry for some of your wives, I bet your Saturday nights have strict interpretation of preset guidelines, I'm sure they're bored out of their mind.

Is it that hard to apply some common sense here? You get an answer you don't like so you say it's invalid, ridiculous.

 

[Ski in NC]

I was running my transom light and a masthead light blocked out in the back, per the regs. Had a go-fast outboard come up behind me fast in the ICW, and hooked a turn at the last chance. He missed us, but it was close. My transom light was probably a bit obscured by the wake, or he was not looking out very well. Due to the design of my boat, the transom light is not very high and at 8kts, there is a wake back there.

I replaced the partial mast head light with an all-around LED (bright) and kept the transom light. If I snipped the wires on the transom light, I would be in full compliance.

If anyone confuses two white lights about 16' apart while running 40kts in a go-fast, maybe they should back off on the power.

I want to be SEEN from aft. If I do not meet the letter of the reg, I'll take that chance over getting a big CC over the transom and in the salon.