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Old 01-26-2016, 05:15 PM   #41
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39 posts and nobody knows what happened. Since we're speculating, I'm betting it had something to do with their anchor.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:16 PM   #42
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Speculation is that not what we do? We get into things we have minimal hard facts about so often its speculation.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:18 PM   #43
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39 posts and nobody knows what happened. Since we're speculating, I'm betting it had something to do with their anchor.
Exactly an oversized anchor with too much chain just drove the bow under.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:23 PM   #44
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Many good accident investigations are pieced together from interviews with crew, passengers, yardworkers, builders, etc.... even with no hard facts...


While you can't put someone on death row for the results of such an investigation...you can sleep peacefully at night if the right conclusions are made from sound info.


I don't think there will be much hard info here...but a few tidbits may be a big piece of the pie....we just have to wait for them.


Until then...I feel our efforts would be much better spent arguing and cursing each other out about the true definition of recreational trawler or making up absolute myths about how dangerous some of our simple cruises really are. THAT'S where the meat is around here.....anchor discussions are for sissies.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:25 PM   #45
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Exactly an oversized anchor with too much chain just drove the bow under.
See, that's what you get with an all-chain rode, you chain-aholics.
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Old 01-26-2016, 05:34 PM   #46
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Exactly an oversized anchor with too much chain just drove the bow under.
The vessel sank stern first so me thinks it wasn't the case of too much chain and an over sized anchor.

Continuing with the speculation...

I'm willing to bet a box of donuts that is was a case of too many bikini clad Brazilian bombshells on the swim platform that overloaded it to the point where it took on water which entered the open "toy box" at the stern. Just Sayin'

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Old 01-26-2016, 05:58 PM   #47
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She is 121' feet long by the way.

The vessel in question.

Not the lady in the picture. :-)

And the lady in the picture is obviously not Brazilian. Her top has to much fabric to it to be a Brazilian suit.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:06 PM   #48
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See what I mean?
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:10 PM   #49
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105' yacht sinks off Fort Lauderdale

Edit: it was deemed unsafe upon the Towboat US arriving on scene but they took it under tow till additional assets arrived.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:37 PM   #50
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I don't know why Psneeld ever reads threads about boat sinkings, rescues, or sea tragedies, the wild speculation always annoys him. I think he secretly likes to be exasperated.

I have this vision in my head of a CG helicopter hovering over a raging sea, boat swamped to the gunwales, just a little burgee poking out of the water on the otherwise sunken bow, big walls of green water crashing on the boaters swimming in the spray and foam (while holding little Fifi the wet Pomeranian aloft). The swimmers are waving their arms to drop life rings or the rescue basket or something and Psneeld leans out of the helicopter and shouts "We can't be certain if you need rescue right now because we can't speculate about your swimming endurance! Tread water a little longer so we can calibrate the rescue protocols to your precise level of distress!"
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:03 PM   #51
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I don't know why Psneeld ever reads threads about boat sinkings, rescues, or sea tragedies, the wild speculation always annoys him. I think he secretly likes to be exasperated.

I have this vision in my head of a CG helicopter hovering over a raging sea, boat swamped to the gunwales, just a little burgee poking out of the water on the otherwise sunken bow, big walls of green water crashing on the boaters swimming in the spray and foam (while holding little Fifi the wet Pomeranian aloft). The swimmers are waving their arms to drop life rings or the rescue basket or something and Psneeld leans out of the helicopter and shouts "We can't be certain if you need rescue right now because we can't speculate about your swimming endurance! Tread water a little longer so we can calibrate the rescue protocols to your precise level of distress!"
Not really...you have no idea of what really annoys me on this forum because I wish to stay and not get thrown off....so I don't post it ...

Any harm in pointing out the truth? People tried and convicted in the eye of public opinion suffer every day. I have been the victim of it...not fun.


Want to speculate? Watch reality TV and have it out there. At least those people are getting well paid for the most part to be fools.


As to my rescue record? Public record. Feel free to check it out.


Anyone with rescue experience knows....maximum rescue effort warranted...sort out the details later.


Anyone with accident investigation experience knows...never assume anything...it taints your outlook of what actually might have happened.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:19 PM   #52
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Usually the towing requires the owner to be on board.....so have at it guys...
Or the captain to have a commercial policy.

Actually the tow boat went out to it and hooked up but soon cut the line. He had other help on the way but it sank too fast.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:25 PM   #53
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Many good accident investigations are pieced together from interviews with crew, passengers, yardworkers, builders, etc.... even with no hard facts...
Interesting comment as the next step on El Faro is just that, a hearing focusing on events leading up to the sinking, not on the sinking itself. The hearing after that will focus on the voyage itself.

Much of the time in an investigation it's just information gathering, asking questions, with no idea where it will lead or what you'll learn. Then, if you're lucky, pieces start to fit together.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:27 PM   #54
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Or the captain to have a commercial policy.

Actually the tow boat went out to it and hooked up but soon cut the line. He had other help on the way but it sank too fast.
Not sure how that would matter...With Sea Tow, the commercial policy is different from recreational in that there is a charge associated with all towing...not free for members like recreational. And in that case, the boat is covered under either policy if owned/registered to the card holder. Pretty sure BoatUS is similar.


If talking Professional Mariner Card like for a delivery captain...then they would definitely have to be aboard.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:54 PM   #55
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Not sure how that would matter...With Sea Tow, the commercial policy is different from recreational in that there is a charge associated with all towing...not free for members like recreational. And in that case, the boat is covered under either policy if owned/registered to the card holder. Pretty sure BoatUS is similar.


If talking Professional Mariner Card like for a delivery captain...then they would definitely have to be aboard.
I was referring to Professional Mariner under Sea Tow, which would cover the captain if he's aboard. Under BoatUs, the boat is actually covered even if the owner isn't aboard, if it's the primary listed boat. So, yes, I meant Professional Mariner, not Commercial.
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:10 PM   #56
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Gets weird with bigger boats...technically Sea Tow wont always cover stuff too big (65 ft plus).


Plus I wasn't entirely correct about the aboard comment...you are correct that the vessel is covered without the owner aboard in most cases...with BoatUS it would be commercial boat named as opposed to a person, Sea Tow it might be either/or depending on the coverage...
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:33 PM   #57
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Gets weird with bigger boats...technically Sea Tow wont always cover stuff too big (65 ft plus).


Plus I wasn't entirely correct about the aboard comment...you are correct that the vessel is covered without the owner aboard in most cases...with BoatUS it would be commercial boat named as opposed to a person, Sea Tow it might be either/or depending on the coverage...
It's all complicated and less straightforward than you wish. Then whether it's towing or salvage and whether it's insurance or tow membership. I know we're over covered and have duplicate coverage just as a precaution.

Regardless I think the tow memberships have been an incredible improvement for recreational boating and I'm happy to have all the tow boats around.
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:47 PM   #58
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Regardless I think the tow memberships have been an incredible improvement for recreational boating and I'm happy to have all the tow boats around.
I prefer the Canadian Coast Guard and the RNLI model.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:09 PM   #59
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I prefer the Canadian Coast Guard and the RNLI model.
I don't know that model well, so if you'd like to elaborate it would be great.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:14 PM   #60
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