To which continent to retire?

[User915]

Clearly no inferiority complex there, then..?

LOL !

Pierre, look at life expectancy, the stats first tell a clear story. (list by the World Health Organization).

- Access to affordable & high quality health care for everyone, by large coverage health insurance,
- Diet habits,
- Decent pension on retirement for everyone guaranteed by the State,
- “The social determinants of health,” those social and economic realities that define our daily lives,

All of that make the difference.

 

[butchcondor]

Year before last I leased a minivan for 6 months and toured Europe, I was 65 at the time and stayed at different campgrounds throughout Spain, France, Italy, and German. I visited Gibraltar, Morocco, Greece and a couple of the Greek islands and stayed in hotels because it was almost impossible to drive there. I was looking for a possible place to retire.

I mean come on, I stayed in Venice for a few days and only paid $25 a night and I was only 4 bus stops away from downtown Venice. (Less than 15 minutes without the hassle of parking.)

Campgrounds in the USA are privative affairs where we go back to the 18 century for a few days and "ruff" it, campfires for cooking and smelly outhouses are the norm. By comparison, European campgrounds are more like "Spa's" with swimming pools, restaurants, food stores, clean toilets with hot showers and laundry facilities and a lot of them are close to points of interest, a Castle, Beach, River or some other tourist attraction. Most campgrounds also have affordable rooms or cabins to stay in if you don't have a tent or you don’t want to stay in a tent. They are usually fully equipped with everything needed to set up housekeeping, stove refrigerator, silverware and pots and pans. On the average I paid $14 for a campsite, with electricity and as low as $25 a night for a cabin.

Besides the attractions that brought me to different places, it was meeting interesting people with no agenda or Axe to grind with me about the political differences between our countries, just people being people was something I really enjoyed. I asked nearly everyone I met if they wanted to trade passports with me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Vietnam veteran and I consider myself to be a true son of Jefferson but for the average person, we don’t have it half as good as the average European has it. I mean, what their governments do for them is a lot more than what our government does for us. In German I spoke to one person and said to him, our taxes are not as high as yours, we don’t pay for all the free programs. He noted that in Germany anyone can go to college for free, even I could attend any university and study for free if I wanted to, free education is open to everyone. How much does it cost you to go to college in the USA? Add that to amount of what it cost you to go to college to your lower taxes and who is really paying less. Not one person wanted to trade passports with me. Now I see that Europeans also live longer than we do.

It’s our own fault, as the great American writer Henry David Thoreau noted, “Heaven can be described as a place people avoid”

 

[dhays]

Freedom is not free but in the USA we are great. Enough said.

Wait... how can we be "great"? A majority of the electoral college just affirmed that we AREN'T great and that we need to be great AGAIN.

 

[Northern Spy]

LOL !

Pierre, look at life expectancy, the stats first tell a clear story. (list by the World Health Organization).

- Access to affordable & high quality health care for everyone, by large coverage health insurance,
- Diet habits,
- Decent pension on retirement for everyone guaranteed by the State,
- “The social determinants of health,” those social and economic realities that define our daily lives,

All of that make the difference.

Japan, Singapore, and Iceland are all islands, so don't meet the OPs original qualifier of continent...

 

[MurrayM]

Japan, Singapore, and Iceland are all islands, so don't meet the OPs original qualifier of continent...

An island off an island appeals to me...Quathiaski Cove on Quadra Island perhaps? Or maybe an island off an island off an island, such as Cortes, might offer the right degree of separation from the madding herd.

butchcondors post above reminds me of something I heard David Suzuki say in answering a 12 year old kids question after a lecture. The kid asked how he could know which older people to trust. Suzuki said there are two kinds of older people; grown ups and adults.

Grown ups are dangerous because they've closed their minds to new ways of seeing things, protect what they 'know', and barge forward without learning. Adults were to be trusted because they are open to new things, will listen to young people, and continually keep their minds open to finding better ways of doing things.

 

[O C Diver]

LOL !

Pierre, look at life expectancy, the stats first tell a clear story. (list by the World Health Organization).

- Access to affordable & high quality health care for everyone, by large coverage health insurance,
- Diet habits,
- Decent pension on retirement for everyone guaranteed by the State,
- “The social determinants of health,” those social and economic realities that define our daily lives,

All of that make the difference.

Overall life expectancy argument doesn't have any value in this discussion. As you get older, the odds of living longer than the average person increase as you have survived when others in your group have not. Assuming the discussion was based on an age of 60+, on average we will exceed the average overall life expectancy regardless of which country we live in.

The other faulty assumption is that moving to a country with a higher life expectancy for retirement magically erases what you did or were exposed to in the first 60 years of your life.

Ted

 

[User915]

Japan, Singapore, and Iceland are all islands, so don't meet the OPs original qualifier of continent...

Australia is an island also a continent.

 

[User915]

"There is not a better indicator of well-being than life expectancy", stated American demographers from many US Universities, who were not involved in the stats I posted.

@Dhays
With all due respect to your statement and opinion, I would not be that critical of the USA, still a Great country in my opinion.

The USA is a beautiful country to see and a nice country to live in. It spans almost an entire continent, therefore any comparaison in all ways with other countries (especially European countries which are a lot smaller), is must be examined cautiously.

- You have freedom of act, freedom of speech, it's one of the best things about living in a country today. You can freely criticize the government, the president, private groups and even professions. Individuals can be exposed to many different views, and then decide on their own what they wish to believe. It's a remarkable freedom, and it's crucial that you preserve that freedom. (not many countries can say this).

- You have an essentially free market system, that's a pretty good economic system. In fact, it's not perfect but it's the best created so far, and it's a system that encourages customer service and quality control.

- Also, the USA grow more food than you need (not many countries can do this),

- The people in your country are remarkably creative, you have a rather highly innovative population. Per capita, you create more patents than any country in the world. You have independent thinkers, and they bring together the wisdom of many different cultures and background.

- Also, I don't know of any other place in the world where you can get the same cultural mix that you have there in the United States. I think it's wonderful to have the cultural influences of Hispanics, African Americans, Eastern Europeans, Asians, South Americans and many others.

Perhaps or for sure, some things need improvement. Not more or less than in Europe. They say that if you aren't affecting change, change is affecting you. Don't worry, if nobody is perfect, no country is perfect too. But in America, people feel the need and have the motivation to stand up and pull together about a great many things, you stand tall and proud. To me that's a healthy sign of the great level of a country. There is no perfect system, but I look at your society as a model, in my own opinion.

 

[Ski in NC]

Regarding island life: When I was a kid, our family would vacation in the Fla Keys for one or two weeks a year. For me, it was paradise. Fishing, diving, exploring in a jonboat, etc.

Then one summer between school semesters, I went down there for the whole summer. Paradise for the whole summer!!! For two or three weeks I fished, dove, explored. Awesome!!! Also worked a few days a week helping in construction or fixing boat engines. And ran a string of lobster traps.

Soon got bored. The last few weeks I could not stand it. I ended up leaving early to go back to school. To this day lobster has no more appeal to me than a cheeseburger.

I remember that bored island feeling well. Whenever I hear someone say they wish they could drop it all and go live on an island, I caution them.

Several isolated keys have abandoned or partially built homes on them. I'm too social to want to live that way. I think most are. Those island dreams can wear off fast in reality. Even if the island has a good number of people, it can get small fast.

 

[BandB]

Regarding island life: When I was a kid, our family would vacation in the Fla Keys for one or two weeks a year. For me, it was paradise. Fishing, diving, exploring in a jonboat, etc.

Then one summer between school semesters, I went down there for the whole summer. Paradise for the whole summer!!! For two or three weeks I fished, dove, explored. Awesome!!! Also worked a few days a week helping in construction or fixing boat engines. And ran a string of lobster traps.

Soon got bored. The last few weeks I could not stand it. I ended up leaving early to go back to school. To this day lobster has no more appeal to me than a cheeseburger.

I remember that bored island feeling well. Whenever I hear someone say they wish they could drop it all and go live on an island, I caution them.

Several isolated keys have abandoned or partially built homes on them. I'm too social to want to live that way. I think most are. Those island dreams can wear off fast in reality. Even if the island has a good number of people, it can get small fast.

Wifey B: Yes, yes, yes...to all you said. There are lots of islands in the keys and the Bahamas for sale. We love looking at them when we're around them. A lot of celebrities own islands in the Bahamas. My take: Islands are great as an escape, but I wouldn't want to live full time on a private island. Boring!

That's what happens when we imagine sometimes, we think of a great week or two. We think of all that's there, wherever there is, but we don't think of all we'd give up.

The whole "where would I live" thing is something we've seriously looked at. If we had no current entanglements, no family, no friends, no businesses, nothing to which we felt any attachment then there are so many wonderful places we'd consider. The South Pacific. The Caribbean. I love that in the Caribbean you can go from one island to another or just the other side of the same one and you're in a different nation, from British to American to Dutch to French. I'm sorry, I don't buy into the Nationalism of the US or any other country that says it is the single best and that it's perfect. It's not. But then neither is anywhere. You get somewhere and you slowly learn what the locals already knew, you see the issues. Yet, home is where the heart is. Ours is in FLL. We love boating. But we love having a home to come back to where our friends and family greet us and we have 20 or 30 for a little Sunday cookout. Also we're not free in the sense of no obligations. The moment we opened a business, we became obligated and committed to employees. Then of course the kids at the orphanage who we'd miss so.

Life is more than just a place. So many places I love visiting but they're not home and couldn't be. I don't want to chuck it all and leave it all behind. Maybe to me then it's if I was going to have a second home where would I choose? Well, we thought about that too. Silly me. We have that. It's mobile. It's a boat. That's where it would be. Here, there and everywhere. Today it would be the TN River. We looked at the houses as we passed and thought it would be nice to live there and there and then there. This was once our dream before FLL came into the picture.

It's great to dream and think of other places. We dream of that magical island beach in the movies with a group of servants, perhaps all naked native girls in the fantasies, catering to every whim. Sipping drinks with cute little umbrellas. Sounds wonderful, but not a forever wonderful. Might be if we were looking to escape a life or something but we're not. We consider our present home and life to be paradise. Others in other places think the same way.

You see all the websites, "Retire in .....". One thing they emphasize is cost. That is a factor for many and if cost was critical, then it most definitely wouldn't be where we are now, wouldn't be the US. Could certainly retire to Bocas Del Toro cheaper than FLL and have an incredible lifestyle in a beautiful idyllic place. Now, many countries also have far better retirement programs for their citizens than the US but you can't just move there and be in that program. I see the way the elderly are treated in the Netherlands, and I'm ashamed of how we do it in the US. And really no one here is among those I'm referring to in the US, struggling to just get by, living in poverty. We may not all be part of the 1%, but this forum is made up of those in the top 30% of their age. Many elderly can't afford to travel to the next town, much less on a boat.

Understand the expatriate programs and moving to other countries works great for some, but then others do find themselves missing their own home. Most can't come back though, can't afford to.

Then people. See, I think they're wonderful everywhere. I love them all. Haven't yet been anywhere that I didn't find them nice. In traveling I've see some beauty and some sadness though. Places that are great when you're a visitor who can afford it, but then you see the poor living there and they're conditions and you'd never want that and they're the majority. I think to how wonderfully we were treated in Nicaragua and the squalid conditions most there live in.

I love thinking about all the places of the world and all the people and the beauty. No place is perfect but a lot of them are pretty great. Well, for today, I choose to live on the TN river, but it's just temporary. Home is, and will be from this time forward, Fort Lauderdale.

 

[foggysail]

With sooo many people wanting to come to the United States, I find it surprising that there are many who prefer other countries. Now that does not mean that here in the States things are great all over the Country. Consider Chicago with their shootings. And of course we enjoy (enjoy???) TV programs that glorify bang, bang, bang to the extend that too many young men believe this stuff is real. Crazy!

 

[Simi 60]

USA!

You'll wet your pants if you come to Australia, we have travel lifts to, and more than one.

 

[dhays]

@Dhays
With all due respect to your statement and opinion, I would not be that critical of the USA, still a Great country in my opinion.

I agree OMC. I just failed at irony.

 

[man n black]

I think the draw to live somewhere else besides America is strong for some and less so for others...My whole life I've been an atypical American but 'Merican through and through....however recently I find Americans to be increasingly elitist and closed minded regardless of political affiliation...this seems to be an affliction of people who have reasonable amounts of financial independence, which as Wifey B alluded to; compared to most other countries would be most Americans....

after visiting several European countries in the last few years I found as well most people didn't care about what you do for work or who you voted for...Europeans seem alot more interested in who you are as a person...That is extremely refreshing. After visiting London over New Years we have become very smitten and are considering a move there...rough as far as retiring there probably not as it is extremely expensive to live in London.

As I said before for us..as a retirement place would be South Africa...we could be tied to land with a nice place..surrounded by nice people in a first world country but still keep our soon to be bought moving home close as SA is a seafaring nation....

Ch

 

[AusCan]

Many people struggle to be open minded with their thoughts about their home country. Almost every day, we are bombarded with messages about how great OUR country is. This happens in most countries, although some more than others.

Being proud of our nation is good,... up to a point. When it becomes blind patriotism, it no longer is a positive thing for a nation.

Blind patriotism limits ones ability to take criticism from those with differing views. It builds resentment with other nations. When the conceit builds to a level where you don't (or can't) even consider outsiders points of view, then the patriotism is a negative. Political leaders love blind patriotism. "The problem isn't here. It's the rest of the world".

Traveling to differing countries helps to keep our minds in check. I don't mean in a cruise ship loaded with other compatriots eating the same food as at home, and doing 8 hour stops to see the "native" entertainment, etc; I mean spending time away from tourists and trying to gain a slight understanding of the lives to the locals. It is refreshing, and is the best education a person can get.

You will learn to question some aspects of your home country which you've always accepted. But you will also learn to appreciate some aspects which you've taken for granted. It will open your mind to a new level of learning.

 

[foggysail]

after visiting several European countries in the last few years I found as well most people didn't care about what you do for work or who you voted for...Europeans seem alot more interested in who you are as a person...That is extremely refreshing. After visiting London over New Years we have become very smitten and are considering a move there...rough as far as retiring there probably not as it is extremely expensive to live in London.



Ch

We will see how Europeans feel in a few years after the recent and ongoing huge waves of immigrants assimilate into their general population

 

[Simi 60]

Many people struggle to be open minded with their thoughts about their home country. Almost every day, we are bombarded with messages about how great OUR country is. This happens in most countries, although some more than others.

Being proud of our nation is good,... up to a point. When it becomes blind patriotism, it no longer is a positive thing for a nation.

Blind patriotism limits ones ability to take criticism from those with differing views. It builds resentment with other nations. When the conceit builds to a level where you don't (or can't) even consider outsiders points of view, then the patriotism is a negative. Political leaders love blind patriotism. "The problem isn't here. It's the rest of the world".

Traveling to differing countries helps to keep our minds in check. I don't mean in a cruise ship loaded with other compatriots eating the same food as at home, and doing 8 hour stops to see the "native" entertainment, etc; I mean spending time away from tourists and trying to gain a slight understanding of the lives to the locals. It is refreshing, and is the best education a person can get.

You will learn to question some aspects of your home country which you've always accepted. But you will also learn to appreciate some aspects which you've taken for granted. It will open your mind to a new level of learning.

Thanks for saying that and my thoughts as well

 

[Simi 60]

We will see how Europeans feel in a few years after the recent and ongoing huge waves of immigrants assimilate into their general population

According to you a few posts up it is Murica that everyone wants to go to.
Seems if there is to be a problem with immigrants Murica will have it.

PS, you do realise everyone in America who is not of native Indian descent is an imigrant or descendant of one right?

 

[Bay Pelican]

Europe and free college tuition. I am a lover of Europe and spend a great deal of time there. To compare Europe or any country in Europe to the United States one must take into account the different in systems. Free college for example does not mean anyone can go to college. In many of the countries (I don't know the systems in all the countries so I am being careful.) the spots in the colleges are rationed by the government, frequently through a series of tests at a young age. If you don't make the college track in these tests you are not eligible for a spot.

The differences in culture are what make Europe attractive for me, however, in judging each country I do not apply US concepts to the European systems.

 

[BruceK]

There are major risks separating yourself from your accustomed country of residence in older years. You lose the support systems you benefited from all your life. Not sure it is a wise move at all. I`d hesitate changing the area I live in.
One thing I have noticed with USA citizens, admittedly from a small sample, is a willingness to change states and areas of residence, much more than Aussies do.

 

[AusCan]

There are major risks separating yourself from your accustomed country of residence in older years. You lose the support systems you benefited from all your life. Not sure it is a wise move at all. I`d hesitate changing the area I live in.
One thing I have noticed with USA citizens, admittedly from a small sample, is a willingness to change states and areas of residence, much more than Aussies do.

Yes - there is always a risk with any change. Maybe it's better; maybe its worse. The only way to know is to do it. You can always rent your house and come back. Its a bit like the move to a live-aboard boat.

It's a small world. We can visit anyone we know anywhere on this planet tomorrow if we really want to. We make a bigger deal of it than it really is.

Bruce - I agree that Americans do tend to change states more often than Australians for some reason. Maybe because Australian states are so much bigger?

But Aussies tend to move, and travel, overseas more often. Most end up coming home eventually.

 

[foggysail]

According to you a few posts up it is Murica that everyone wants to go to.
Seems if there is to be a problem with immigrants Murica will have it.

PS, you do realise everyone in America who is not of native Indian descent is an imigrant or descendant of one right?

Murica? What???


And you obviously misread my post, it referred to EUROPE! Chancellor Angela Merkel is one who has created chaos caused by 1,000,000+ immigrants into Germany.

I do not support mass immigration into OUR Country nor do the people that I know. I doubt we are in the minority. And you need to improve your spelling, consider purchasing a dictionary.

 

[Lou_tribal]

There is always positive and negative things on any place in our world. Whatever country we are in, there is always things that bother and things we enjoy.
I am French born, moved to Canada at 23, lived here for the last 19 years, family in France, wife in Canada, many friends in France, same in Canada, traveled to many places in US, Mexico and Caribbean Islands and European countries. I have seen beauties in all these places, disturbing things too. The best place for each of us is where you feel home, maybe your country of birth, maybe another one, or both. Any choice will be personal and hardly objective.
I love France for the way of life, culture, landscape of Mediterranean sea with which I have a spiritual link. I love Canada for the people, the atmosphere, the landscape and nature and many other things. I love Caribbean Islands for the diversity and incredible diving. There is no bad place, just places you feel home more than others.

L.

 

[AusCan]

We will see how Europeans feel in a few years after the recent and ongoing huge waves of immigrants assimilate into their general population

Has the US ever recovered from the millions of immigrants which flooded into the country between 1905-1915? Those annual numbers were higher than the immigrants into Germany.

 

[BruceK]

Has the US ever recovered from the millions of immigrants which flooded into the country between 1905-1915? Those annual numbers were higher than the immigrants into Germany.

Economists are addicted to "growth".
Increasing population, by whatever means, imported or homegrown, increases "growth" by increasing demand for goods and services,leading to increased economic activity, scoring the "growth" goal.
On that basis there will always be reasons for countries to opt for population increase, including via immigration, even on the massive scale in Germany. It will work until it ends in tears, as overpopulation wreaks increasing havoc.

 

[Mako]

It's tough to know a country until you live there. Just taking vacations of a couple of weeks all over the world doesn't let you learn about the weaknesses of each country. This I've learned first-hand, having lived for a year or more in Syria, India, various Middle East, New Zealand, Italy, USA and a couple others.

My biggest priority for retirement is someplace that is truly peaceful - a country that is peaceful in its heart. The USA is not unfortunately, not in my opinion. The most peaceful country I've ever lived in or even visited is NZ, but that won't be the place for us.

Not sure what our decision will be in a few years when we are ready, but it would most likely be half a year in either the US or Italy and the other half cruising the boat across the world.

 

[Simi 60]

And you obviously misread my post, it referred to EUROPE! Chancellor Angela Merkel is one who has created chaos caused by 1,000,000+ immigrants into Germany.

From your post #101

With sooo many people wanting to come to the United States,

What are they if not immigrants?

As I said, America is a nation of immigrants.
The only ones who aren't are the native Americans .
Australia is the same.

 

[AusCan]

Economists are addicted to "growth".
Increasing population, by whatever means, imported or homegrown, increases "growth" by increasing demand for goods and services,leading to increased economic activity, scoring the "growth" goal.
On that basis there will always be reasons for countries to opt for population increase, including via immigration, even on the massive scale in Germany. It will work until it ends in tears, as overpopulation wreaks increasing havoc.

You are so right Bruce. The economists, Big Business, and most political parties have most of us convinced that economic growth is the only way to measure success as a nation. If we have a recession, the political party in power is deemed a failure, so they do anything they can to force "growth" to continue. I like the way the country of Bhutan measures it success. If they had access to boating, I might consider it as an option.

 

[foggysail]

From your post #101

What are they if not immigrants?

As I said, America is a nation of immigrants.
The only ones who aren't are the native Americans .
Australia is the same.

Just because people want to immigrate into our country, does NOT mean they are getting in. Further, one is not an immigrant until he/she immigrates. You really should consider a dictionary.

 

[foggysail]

Economists are addicted to "growth".
Increasing population, by whatever means, imported or homegrown, increases "growth" by increasing demand for goods and services,leading to increased economic activity, scoring the "growth" goal.
On that basis there will always be reasons for countries to opt for population increase, including via immigration, even on the massive scale in Germany. It will work until it ends in tears, as overpopulation wreaks increasing havoc.

Excellent!!!!!