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Old 09-07-2010, 08:13 PM   #21
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

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SeaHorse II wrote:An old friend of mine had a NH46 and cruised it all over Mexico and Central America. Although the interior* (room) was somewhat limited....
Years ago my wife and I and a couple of friends attended the Seattle Boats Afloat show on Lake Union.* One of the boats on display was a then-new*Nordhavn model (I don't remember which one).* When somebody remarrked at the relatively small size of the spaces in the boat, we were told that Nordhavn did/does this deliberately.*

The theory, it was explained to us, is that if you are making an ocean passage and the weather turns nasty, you don't want to be trying to make your way around in a boat with big open spaces in it.* Better to be in smaller spaces where it's easier to brace*yourself against a bulkhead or the side of a companionway or have a grabrail handy to catch yourself rather than risk taking a major tumble*across a big, open*salon or whatever.

How much of this is true or not I have*no way of knowing, but if it actually*is a design consideration of Nordhavn I can see the sense in it.*
Pacific Seacraft sail boats, designed by Bill Crealock are all that way for the same reasons you mentioned.

*
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:27 PM   #22
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

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*
nomadwilly wrote:"There are those that are critical of the 46 and may have good points to make but the NH 46 is WAAAAY up there on my list."
I couldn't agree more... the NH46 has proven itself time and time again as a proven passage maker, the boat is designed to take on weather, many of the current mainstream " passage makers " need a lot more work to them to really be considered a blue water boat.... offshore two key items a proper passage maker needs are stability and wave protection for the glass... both items don't help sell boats though. No offense to the Selene owners but I would be way more comfortable on a older NH46 for a blue water passage than a new Selene.... but for just cruising the Northwest the Selene would be really nice. Every boat is a compromise...
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Old 09-08-2010, 02:48 PM   #23
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Thanks for the explanation of why the current is not mentioned more frequently. I knew there had to be a good reason!

I am delighted to read all the comments about the 46. We are hoping to eventually take it to the South Pacific, so we were looking for a real passagemaker. These boats are designed for that, and one does give up a bit of space in exchange.
It is true, everything is a compromise. I must say that when I look at photos of really huge yachts, with more floor space in the salon than we have in the living room at home, I have always wondered how the owners would manage to cross the space in a storm...not to mention wondering why they want that much space. I am concerned that we might have more than we need on the 46.

The continuing saga of the boat: Our offer has been accepted, and Ron is going to California next week for the survey and sea trial. Assuming that everything is good, I will go out the first weekend of October for the closing. We will probably keep it in California until next Spring, with frequent trips* to California over the winter for play dates for him and the boat. I am still working, so my trips will not be so frequent. We think we will take it North next Spring, so I am really enjoying the comments about trips you all have taken. Please continue with your comments, advice,* and stories!
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:11 PM   #24
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

BB,On page 4 of Voyagers and other Boaters *... I posted a rather long thread (for this forum) on a trip up the coast from Puget Sound to SE Alaska. I'd be flattered if you were to read it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:10 AM   #25
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

An off comments!* Make sure the boat is PNWcold/rainy winter ready.* Many California boats are not as they* lack enough heat and leak in the 9 months of rain.* Out boat was from California, no heat with several leaks.* The Webasto Diesel boiler heat cost 15 grand and I did 90% of the work.*


*
So what are you planning on doing with the boat?* Most PNW boaters do not need a capable boat like the Nord!* There are plenty of trawler for sale up here in the Puget Sound? ***
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*
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:54 PM   #26
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From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

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Make sure the boat is PNWcold/rainy winter ready.* Many California boats are not as they* lack enough heat and leak in the 9 months of rain.
Good advice, other than it actually rains 12 months, not 9.

Our boat spent its whole life in California before we bought it.* As such, it never had any heat installed on it at all.* It still doesn't.* We plan to someday but today we make do in the winter with a portable propane heater that does a reasonably good job but has a number of drawbacks.

If one plans to boat year round up here, on-board heat is pretty much a necessity.* However I would think a Nordhavn would have this from the outset.

Phil is also correct in his assessment of boat requirements in the PNW.* Unless you intend to go offshore into the Pacific a lot, a Nordhavn is sort of overkill, although if one likes the boat and can afford it it doesn't really matter.* I know a fellow who communtes to work in 30mph traffic jams in an Aston Martin Vantage.* It works for him.....

Nordhavns are relatively few and far between up here.* Most common*production*power boats*are Bayliners, Tollycrafts, Nordic Tugs, Grand Banks, CHBs, Island Gypsies, Ocean Alexanders, deFevers,*and so on.* We are seeing more Selenes up here now, too.



-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 9th of September 2010 06:57:42 PM
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:34 PM   #27
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Heavens!* Methinks thou doth protest too much! Could it be that you want to keep all that beautiful cruising water to yourself?* I was there in July and it was gorgeous, sunny, and hot!* I "sailed"* in the San Juans for 2 weeks some years ago when there was no wind, and we never saw a raindrop.* So I know it can be nice, in spite of what you say!* I share your love of rain and fog, actually. I grew up in upstate New York and wanted to live in Norway. Wound up in Hawaii instead, and the first year I lived there I got depressed from all the sunshine. Twenty-five years of Florida got me used to the sun, but not the heat.*

We want to keep the boat* in the PNW for a* few years while I am still working. Once I can free myself, Ron wants to head to New Zealand. We'll see how long we want to play there, and decide where to head next when we decide to head somewhere. At least that is the plan for the moment.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:52 PM   #28
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From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

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I was there in July and it was gorgeous, sunny, and hot!* I "sailed"* in the San Juans for 2 weeks some years ago when there was no wind, and we never saw a raindrop.
I grew up in Hawaii.* Moved there in 1955, left in 1979, and didn't like it all the years in between.* (I liked what I was doing all those years, I just didn't like the place.)

I've lived here now*for 31 years and the weather today is nothing like it was when I moved here.* It rains far more--- not so much*in volume but in terms of time--- than it used to.* And the winds are far higher than they used to be.* For example in Bellingham where we keep our boat, fall winter and spring storms march in almost continuously with perhaps a day or two of boatable weather between them.* And the storm winds these days average 40-50 mph with frequent gusts to 70. (The highest wind gust*recorded last winter in Bellingham marina was 86.)

When I moved here my co-workers, many of whom were raised here, complained bitterly about the hot summers that started July 5 and generally ran though Labor Day.* Today the common complaint among everyone, even the TV weather people, is that "This year we didn't even HAVE a summer."

Seriously, though,*the main thing I've noticed, both in boating and in flying, is that this whole region has gotten way more windy.* The typical wind forecast some ten, twelve years ago was 5 to 15.* Today the typical wind forecast is 15 to 25 and we have a lot of days when it's up to 30 and 35.* That's in the nice months.* Just this past weekend two boats were caught in viscious winds that came up apparently unforcast.* The wind went from 5 to what, 45, 50? in minutes.* The seas (according to the blurb in the paper) went from rippled to eight foot waves almost instantly.* One boat, a vintage wood sailboat, was abandonned when the crew elected to be rescued by USCG helicopter rather than risk what might happen to the sailboat in the waves.** The boat subsequently ended up on the rocks.* The other boat, a powerboat, ran out of fuel from fighting the waves and had to be towed in.* The Vessel Assist skipper who came out said he'd rarely seen conditions so bad in the past.

I don't know why the wind has become a so much greater factor the past few years.* While we use our boat as much as we ever have in the 12 years we've owned it--- which is to say almost every weekend year round even if it's just going up and*staying on it---- we have noticed that more and more often over the last few years*our plans to go out for a weekend*are disrupted by higher and higher winds.

If your boat has stabilizers I guess it won't make much difference what the wind is doing. But if it doesn't, be prepared for some rough rides, particularly on the more open bodies of water.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 10th of September 2010 03:54:18 PM
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:37 PM   #29
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

THe boat does have stabilizers, but even so....I* hope we do not have to contend with wind like that too often!* Maybe the weather patterns will change again, and weather will be more agreeable.* I am sorry to hear about the vintage sail boat.

We seem to have more days that are not good days to go out, too. I keep reading about the wonderful sailing in this area, and wonder when the last time the writer actually tried to do any sailing. Or maybe I am just pickier (wiser?) than I used to be.

Since we do not have to keep the boat in any particular place, if choice A turns out not to be ideal, we can try choice B.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:08 PM   #30
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From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

IIRC Nordhavns are not particularly fast boats. So if you do decide to keep it in the PNW for awhile you might think about keeping it up north rather than down south in the Seattle-Tacoma-Everett area. By keeping our 8-knot boat in Belligham the whole of the San Juans are within easy reach even for a two-day weekend trip. If we kept the boat in the Seattle area, we'd be visiting the San Juans (or farther north) maybe once or twice a year on vacations. A weekend will barely let an 8-knot boat get in sight of the islands and then you have to turn around and go home.

We chose Belligham because we'd chartered out of there and so had some sense of the town. Plus it's a university town (Western Washington University) so it has the vibrancy that only comes with the presence of a college.

But Anacortes is also a good location, down at the south end of the San Juans.

For the first two years we had our boat while we were on the waiting list for a slip (which around here these days can be a three to five year wait) we sublet a slip from a fellow who took his boat every winter over to a marina near Sidney on Vancouver Island. By taking his boat out of the state for six months of the year he avoided paying the state's mandatory annual registration fee (and there may have been some tax benefits, too).

I don't know if you would be living up here too or simply keeping the boat here. If you're just going to keep the boat here it might be worthwhile to keep it in Canada, like over on Vancouver Island. I have no idea of the costs or what sort of regulations there are on non-Canadians keeping a boat full time in Canada. But over there you're even closer to better cruising waters. And it's no more of a hassle to fly into YVR as SEA. Actually in my experience YVR is a lot less hassle.

Having flown pretty much every inch of waterway between Seattle and Juneau, I can tell you that the farther north you go the better it all gets. Eric Henning on this forum can attest to that. My wife and I have left Petersburg in SE Alaska in the morning after a couple weeks camping and fishing to fly back to Lake Washington in one long day (a Beaver is a very slow plane). On a couple of very rare occasions it was nice and clear the entire 800 miles or whatever it is. But after a couple of weeks in SE Alaska and up the Stikine River deep into the Coast Range in that clear air and stunning scenery, by the time we got to the Gulf Islands in lower BC, the San Juans up ahead looked pathetic. Little flat things half-hidden in a haze of pollution. Yet if we had never gone north, we would have thought the same day out in the San Juans was absolutley gorgeous.

So in my opinon, the farther north you can keep a boat and still have it convenient to get to the better, particularly if it's a relatively slow boat.


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 11th of September 2010 10:14:49 AM
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:46 AM   #31
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Marin: "Seriously, though, the main thing I've noticed, both in boating and in flying, is that this whole region has gotten way more windy. "

I disagree. I recall regular Easter storms in the early 70s, two years in a row they were responsible for knocking out the docks where I kept my sailboat. Then by the early 90s, I had to go to the dark side because we hardly ever had enough wind to sail.

The forecasters have also changed their approach, due to fear of litigation. Now they almost never forecast less wind than you actually get. 30 years ago they were over 50% of the time and under 50% of the time. Today's forecasts should read "chance of" ahead of the prediction for wind speed, cause there is in fact a chance that the wind will reach predicted levels, but most often it doesn't.

For example, labor day weekend, we got away at 3:00 pm Friday afternoon to cross the gulf. The prediction was a "strong wind warning" that means over 20. We motored into a ".1m combined wind wave and swell" at Halibut bank ( that is under 4 inches), and virtually no wind all the way to Silva bay. Sure, the strong wind materialized after midnight, so the forecasters could say "told you". But to plan your day around it turned out to be a mistake.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:23 PM   #32
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From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Probably depends on where you are. I've lived 31 years now in the Seattle area and we get more and stronger wind these days than we did through the 80s. I've heard this from NOAA people, it's not just my own observation. Sure, there were plenty of big storms throughout the whole 31 years (like the Innauguration Day storm that flipped planes and did all sorts of damage). But the average wind speed has been creeping up for the past couple of decades. In Bellingham, particularly, where we keep our boat, there seem to be many more windy days (the active sailboaters in our marina love it) than there used to be.

Forecast inaccuracy and hedging is nothing new. I got all my pilot ratings (except seaplane) in Hawaii during the 1970s. Even back then you'd go to make a flight to another island, you could SEE the other island in the case of Molokai and it was obvious that good weather extended all the way down the chain, but when you'd call the FSS to file your flight plan (mandatory in Hawaii) nine times out of ten they'd tell you, "VFR not recommended." I was once so astonished by this piece of advice that I actually asked the FSS guy, "Do you guys have a window in your office?"


And when I started flying here in the 1980s, while I don't have much cause to talk to the FSS folks with flying a floatplane, when we'd take our longer flights up the Passage to SE Alaska on flight plans and flight notes, the FAA peole would usually drone out all sorts of dire predictions for the weather, most of which proved to be way over the top. For whatever reason the Canadians didn't do this--- they told us what was out there and most of the time it proved to be true.

Plus the marine forecast areas here, particularly for the islands, are quite large. For example the one that applies to our local cruising area is "Northern Waters." This encompasses all of the San Juans, the mainland coast from south of Anacortes on up to the border, the southern part of the Strait of Georgia, and the eastern part of San Juan Strait.* So in the "Northern Waters" you can have screaming winds on one side of an island and dead calm on the other side. So when they forecast winds of 15 to 25, which is the most common wind forecast these days (it used to be 5 to 15), you really can't use that to determine what the winds will be where you actually want to take your boat. It might be 25, it might be 5. Or it might be 35 in some spots where the islands funnel and accelerate winds down the passes between them.

So we use the local area forecast as a rough guide as to what conditions will be like generally in the islands and leave it at that. We've been gradually adding to our local knowledge over the last 12 years and so are starting to learn some of the patterns--- that if there's wind it's always much stronger here, and not as strong there, and comes from a different direction than the overall forecast over there, and so on. But it would take a lifetime of boating in these waters to get a really good grasp of what the winds (and currents) do on a localized basis throughout the islands.

-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of September 2010 12:25:30 PM
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:20 AM   #33
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

I am learning a lot! Interesting comments about weather systems.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a good marina for our boat when we get it up there?* Any leads, for example, on someone else who might be interested in subletting a slip?* It is indeed a 3 year wait list at Bellingham.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:55 AM   #34
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Sorry BB * *...can't even get away from that in Alaska. We always have moorage for 23'boats, frequently 50', sometimes 30' and never 17' in the summer. We were in Everett and remember they had a good sublet system. They sublet our slip while we were on a
2 1/2 month trip up north and after we got back we had about one months free rent as they charged the subletter more that us and pased it on to us.
Marin, * *...liked your post about coming back to Puget Sound * *....so true. We look down from the airplane (or out from the deck of a ferry) and wonder how there could be people living there. All's well in the rain though * *...well maybe not now * *...Marin?
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:54 AM   #35
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Quote:
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I am learning a lot! Interesting comments about weather systems.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a good marina for our boat when we get it up there?* Any leads, for example, on someone else who might be interested in subletting a slip?* It is indeed a 3 year wait list at Bellingham.
The Port of Bellingham also operates Blaine Marina, which is right up next to the Peace Arch border crossing.* They often have slips up there when there is nothing anywhere else in the area.* It's another half-hour or so drive north from Bellingham.* If you use your boat year round a fair amount it's (in our opinion) a less-than-ideal location as you have to cross a big (for here) exposed body of water--- the south end of the Strait of Georgia--- to get anywhere.* But it's certainly closer to the islands and "good stuff" farther north than Everett and points south.

There are several marinas in Anacortes. The big city marina is Cap Sante.* On the other side of the town, the Puget Sound side, there is another marina called Skyline.* And there are some smaller, private marinas along the Anacortes waterfront.

Another place to check is Oak Harbor on Whidbey Island.* Oak Harbor is on the inside of Whidbey (east shore) and there are two routes north--- one is via Deception Pass and the other is via the semi-man made Swinomish waterway that runs inland past La Conner and comes out near Anacortes.

There are marinas actually in the San Juans--- the two largest ones are Friday Harbor and Roche Harbor.* My guess is that they are perpetually full with long waiting lists but you never know.* There are two "major" marinas (but they're pretty small) on Orcas Island at Deer Harbor and West Sound.* Obviously keeping a boat in a marina in the islands requires a ferry or plane ride to get to them.

Everett has the largest marina on the west coast and they recently opened a new addition to it which, IIRC, is set up for larger boats.* Like 60' and up.* Everett is getting too far south for my preferences but it's farther north than Seattle.

There's a marina in Edmonds north of Seattle and then there is Seattle itself.* The two big salt water marinas in Seattle are Shilshole (city) and Elliot Bay Marina (private).* Slip fees in Seattle are roughly double or more what you pay up in Bellingham, Blaine, etc.

*
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:00 PM   #36
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Quote:
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We are hoping to eventually take it to the South Pacific, so we were looking for a real passagemaker.

We will probably keep it in California until next Spring, with frequent trips* to California over the winter for play dates for him and the boat.
You are getting a real passagemaker, and with plans to cruise to the South Pacific, a trip up the coast to Washington should be a great way shake her out.* Were you purchacing a lesser boat, I might have a different opinion though.Taking a seasoned delivery skipper along may go a long way twords easing your concerns if your at all worried about the trip North. As for keeping the boat in California, make sure you look into the tax implications before making your final decision.* Many folks choose to spend time in Mexico to avoid the tax bite.* Washington will also want to collect tax depending on your length of stay.* It pays to be fully informed prior to signing the final check.* Enoy the process.............Arctic Traveller

*
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:09 PM   #37
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

Thank you for all that information about marinas.* We will definitely keep those thoughts in mind~ an in the computer, since its memory is more reliable than mine!

One of the reasons we have a time limit for getting it out of California is indeed the tax situation.* Good to have warning that Washington has similar regulations. We were not sure about that, and will investigate just what they are.* I am sure lots of people love cruising in Mexico, but Ihave to admit that as far as I am concerned, that is the wrong direction.** I want to go North!


We are most likely going to hire a professional* to get the boat North.* This is a big change from sailing and we have a lot to learn.

Ron went to California today for the survey and sea trial.* I am holding my breath, waiting to hear that it is everything he thought it was!
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:39 PM   #38
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

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BB,
On page 4 of Voyagers and other Boaters *... I posted a rather long thread (for this forum) on a trip up the coast from Puget Sound to SE Alaska. I'd be flattered if you were to read it.

*
Well, I finally found the post!* I kept starting to look for it and getting sidetracked by another topic or some minor detail like work.* Sounds like an interesting trip. Maybe Mexico isn't such a bad idea after all.....

*
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:02 PM   #39
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RE: From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

My understanding of the tax situation in Washington is this----

Since you are buying the boat out of state there are no Washington State sales taxes you will have to pay. But every boat in the state over a certain size/horsepower has to pay an annual registration fee. It doesn't matter if your boat is documented or not, you have to pay the registration fee.

The fee is based on the value of the boat but I have no idea how they compute this.

When you register your boat in Washington for the first time you will be issued a Washington State registration number, a "WN" number. If your boat is not documented, you have to display this number on the boat in a prescribed location. If your boat is documented, you cannot display the registration number even though you have one.

You will also be issued an annual registration sticker. This is a square thing with the expiration date on it and other info and it must be displayed on the exterior of the boat, documented or not.

Every year you have to pay the annual registration fee at which point they will issue you the new year's registration sticker.

The ony way out of paying the annual registration fee that I'm aware of is if you keep your boat in the state less than six months out of the year. In the case of the fellow with the slip we sublet for our first two winters with the boat, he took it to Sidney, BC in October and kept it there until some time in April.

Also, most marinas up here (and perhaps everywhere else) now require proof of insurance to keep your boat in one of their slips. This is to ensure the marina is protected in case you or your boat breaks the marina. Telling them you have insurance is not enough--- they want a copy of the policy. Our broker sends them one automatically every time our policy is renewed or they change our insurance company.

Some marinas allow you to work on the exterior of your boat in the slip, some don't. Squalicum Marina (Bellingham) does up to a point. You can sand, paint (within reason), varnish, do carpentry and fiberglass work, and so on. They draw the line at activities that could put pollutants in the water--- metal grinding is frowned upon--- or generate a lot of noise, sparks, fumes, etc. I would not be surprised if Elliot Bay Marina in Seattle, which is quite a bit more upmarket than Squalicum, is as tolerant of these kinds of activities.

Moorage fees may or may not include power. They don't in Bellingham. So if you keep electric heat on your boat during the winter, be prepared for the bill.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:38 AM   #40
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From Los Angeles to Seattle by boat?

BB,

I also have that trip on Face Book. Find Eric Henning of Thorne Bay Alaska, look at my profile page and click on "notes". Also I have a 5 or 6 Photo Albums mostly of Alaska that you or other members here may like to see. More than a few of those pictures were taken on the "Long Way Home" trip/story/log.


PS
I think you can go on FB, look at my pics and story without joining FB but I'm not sure.
Do it and let me know please.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 14th of September 2010 09:41:39 AM
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