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Old 11-14-2015, 06:13 PM   #21
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The taxes on the property are only $70 a year as long as it's not an active business according the caretaker I spoke with. That's a pretty fair incentive to not actually develop it imo.

He had a couple of boats pulled up onto the rocks. I joked about it being hard to launch them, he looked confused and said "no problem with that". Canadians are a bit different eh? :-)
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:14 PM   #22
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During our visit to Butedale in 1985 I shot a few photos, 35mm slides. Just for fun this morning I projected them and copied them to one of our digital cameras. Here are the results. In order the shots are: Landing Butedale, taxiing in, the foundation of one of the main cannery buildings, a couple of views of the dormitory, the pipeline carrying water to the powerhouse with the big fountains of leaking water that kept us from getting up the lake, the powerhouse outflow, a shot up one of the "streets," and the dock where we put the plane. This dock was gone the next time we flew the Passage so we landed in the lake up above instead.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:16 PM   #23
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Terrific thread! Thanks all for the memories!
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Old 11-15-2015, 11:42 AM   #24
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Another shot, from 1999:
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:24 AM   #25
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Marin;
I just discovered this thread; thanks for the memories, I think.
Sad to see the slow death of what once was BC.
BC was the coast. BC was the cost people.

I regret that my time as a kid on that part of the coast did not involve pictures. What was the point? It would always be that way. No need to save it on pieces of paper. Any pictures I have, were of people, kids mostly and the typical coastal buildings were just part of the background along with the trees and old boats.

As a kid, I never got beyond (old) Bella Bella and even through the 80's when I got up there and beyond it was still the rough and tumble coast and still no pictures.

So when folks like you went and saw it with different eyes and captured it because it was a new adventure, you held onto some of it for the likes of me.

How many times have the Butedales of the coast been a new owners dream come true, only to choke to death in the 8 month fog, pelted with rain?

Thanks again, the old guard salutes you...
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Old 11-20-2015, 02:28 AM   #26
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And Butedale is still there. As you wander up (or down) the coast you see old stacks and logging apparatus along the shore, wondering what it was and how it worked, as much as when it worked. Canneries, pilings, objects on the beaches you wish you had the time to investigate.

And houses dwarfed by the trees, knowing there were at least three generations of trees growing there before you came along. Nothing you can see is old growth, despite it's size.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:06 AM   #27
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Amazing pictures! Lately I have been having second thoughts about the power boat we bought in August. Not really sure it's for us. But these pictures remind me that the reason we bought the boat we did was because my FIL went north a few years ago and brought back pictures and a book about Ocean Falls. I can't wait to go there, so thanks for the reminder about why we would do something as foolish as buying another boat!
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Old 11-21-2015, 12:14 PM   #28
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I regret that my time as a kid on that part of the coast did not involve pictures. What was the point? It would always be that way. No need to save it on pieces of paper.
I know what you mean. My all-time, absolute favorite type of boat is the aku boat, sometimes called sampan, that worked n Hawaii from the late 1940s through the 1980s. Aku is the Hawaiian word for albacore tuna. These approximately 70' wood boats designed and built in Hawaii were beautiful (to me) and to see them slicing through the swells and waves of the open Pacific was something to see.

When I was growing up in Hawaii and then working in commercial television there was a considerable fleet of aku boats serving the tuna canneries in Kewalo Basin n Honolulu. I saw them virtually every day for almost 30 years. Later in television I went out on and filmed them in action. But did I ever take any of my own photos of them? Not one.

I fugured they'd be around forever and I'd get around to taking photos "someday."

The only photos I have of my favorite boats are three pictures a fellow sent me a few years ago when he read a post I'd written about them.
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Old 11-21-2015, 12:40 PM   #29
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My all-time, absolute favorite type of boat is the aku boat, sometimes called sampan, that worked n Hawaii from the late 1940s through the 1980s. Aku is the Hawaiian word for albacore tuna. These approximately 70' wood boats designed and built in Hawaii were beautiful (to me) and to see them slicing through the swells and waves of the open Pacific was something to see.
These guys?
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Old 11-21-2015, 12:58 PM   #30
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Sad to see the slow death of what once was BC...

...How many times have the Butedales of the coast been a new owners dream come true, only to choke to death in the 8 month fog, pelted with rain?
The ability of this environment to quickly decompose and recirculate nutrients is exactly what I love about this place. Every square inch of land has Life on it, within it, and/or just under it; the sea and intertidal zones are equally as rich.

I used to think as you do, especially concerning old totem poles that had fallen and weren't put back up or preserved in a museum somewhere, until a Haisla buddy of mine explained their take on it. His attitude was the pole was born, had a life, and was simply returning to Earth as we all will do one day. Simple. Beautiful.

So now I celebrate the decay, knowing that if left alone for the whole process to complete itself, every evidence of our endeavors will be wiped away and replaced with fully mature forest.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:22 PM   #31
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I used to think as you do...now I celebrate the decay, knowing that if left alone for the whole process to complete itself, every evidence of our endeavors will be wiped away and replaced with fully mature forest.
You and I are not apart in our thinking. I was referring to the loss of "community" and it's people. I hope the Gitga'at and Hartley Bays never get replaced by new forests. Too much of our coast and it's heritage were and still are treated as disposable.

Totems will return to the dirt as you and I will. Skidders in the bush won't.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #32
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These guys?
Yes. The second photo is, I believe, one of the last ones left and it's a wreck. If it's the one I'm thinking of I saw it in Kewalo Basin in 1999 or 2000 when Boeing sent me over to do a quick project with Aloha Airlines. There were just two of them in a harbor that had once held thirty or forty, all in top condition. I would not be surprised if the two derelicts I saw are gone now.

Most if not all of them were powered with a single 6-71. Despite their length they were quite narrow and were actually pretty fast. They were day boats, going into Pearl Harbor early in the morning to net the lttle fish they used for live bait and then heading out to where they thought the aku might be. They would fish most of the day and then head back to unload at the canneries in the evening.

In the late 70s I did some fish spotting for a couple of them, flying out at first light to areas where aku were often found like Molokai Channel, looking for the big spirals of seabirds that formed in feeding frenzies when tuna forced schools of baitfish to the surface. These form and dissipate pretty fast but they indicate the presence of tuna in the area. Then I'd go back to HNL, land, call in what I'd seen to the skipper of the boat and then go off to work. The owner of the plane got a small percentage of the day's earnings.

The big number on the sides of the boats' pilothouses is the boat's permit number for baitfish netting in Pearl Harbor which of course was under the jurisdiction of the US Navy. In those days a commercial fishing license in Hawaii cost $15 IIRC. Even I had one for a time.
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Old 11-21-2015, 01:56 PM   #33
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You and I are not apart in our thinking. I was referring to the loss of "community" and it's people. I hope the Gitga'at and Hartley Bays never get replaced by new forests. Too much of our coast and it's heritage were and still are treated as disposable.

Totems will return to the dirt as you and I will. Skidders in the bush won't.
I agree; we aren't that far apart

In terms of the environment, I tend to think in geological timeframes. All the mountains around here under 5,000' are rounded on top...any over that height are sharp, pointy peaks...this means everything was once covered with 5,000' of ice.

I heard a Tsimshian lady speak once who said, when making big decisions, they think seven generations out.

Your skidder doesn't stand a chance
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Old 11-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #34
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I heard a Tsimshian lady speak once who said, when making big decisions, they think seven generations out.
Well Murray, the Tsimshian and I are two different worlds.
We have come to not thinking much beyond today.

This is the first of my six generations on the BC coast and G7 could pop out any time now.

Can't say I am all that excited about what the most recent two have done and can't be too enthusiastic about the next.

And I certainly am not proud of what my 6 generations have done to 6 generations of the Tsimshian, the Salish, the Nisga'a et al.
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Old 11-21-2015, 02:51 PM   #35
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Your skidder doesn't stand a chance
Absolutely. On our first visit to Von Donop in the Desolation Sound area we came acros the remains of a big skidder in the brush. There wasn't much left, just the frame and drum and gear assemblies and the half-rotted logs it was mounted on. I don't know how it had been powered so it was hard to tell when it dated from. I'm guessing the 50s or 60s but I suppose it could have been earlier. The metal components, while still intact, had reached the point of being covered with big flakes of rust that could be peeled off easily by hand. Some of the thinner sections of the frame had rusted through completely.

Based on its overall appearance I would say it's going to be a race between the skidder itself and the big (cedar?) logs it sits on as to which one disappears from sight first.
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Old 11-21-2015, 04:14 PM   #36
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Well Murray, the Tsimshian and I are two different worlds.
We have come to not thinking much beyond today.
Or the next election cycle! Kind of like sking down a double black diamond run with toilet paper tubes taped onto your sunglasses

As I understand the First Nations world view (only ankle deep in the shallow end on this one) we (modern people) worry too much about the here and now. What matters most is Nature, the giver and sustainer of Life, not our material achievements which will surely return to dust in time.

My take on this is that even if Humans fry the whole surface of the Earth, there will be some organisms relying on chemosynthesis huddled around a deep ocean hot water vent, or surviving between crystals inside rocks in the interior plains of Antarctica, and Life will again find a way

Maybe Bonobo's are Natures plan 'B'...
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Old 11-21-2015, 05:58 PM   #37
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Can't say I am all that excited about what the most recent two have done and can't be too enthusiastic about the next.
Won't argue with you on your first point, but beg to differ on the last.

You may have been following the Enbridge Northern Gateway story here in Kitimat. Through the five or six years that saga has been playing out I've gotten to meet some really inspiring young people.

One of the most impressive was Luke Wallace, an environmental geography student at UBC who is also a folk musician and documentary film maker. It was while talking to him that I realized yours and my generation are the last ones who could ever imagine finding some remote spot on the planet and "get away from civilization".

Luke and his generation have grown up knowing there is not one spot on the planet which hasn't in some way been touched by humans or been impacted by us in some way. This makes them very aware of how they intend to lead their lives and informs the choices they make.

Time will tell if there's enough of them to tip the balance of power, but it does give me hope.
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Old 11-21-2015, 06:51 PM   #38
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Luke Wallace sampler;



https://lukewallace.bandcamp.com/
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Old 11-21-2015, 07:01 PM   #39
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...we came acros the remains of a big skidder in the brush. There wasn't much left, just the frame and drum and gear assemblies and the half-rotted logs it was mounted on. I don't know how it had been powered so it was hard to tell when it dated from. I'm guessing the 50s or 60s but I suppose it could have been earlier.
What you saw was a donkey on skids. Most likely powered by steam; lots of fuel for them.

When all available wood was knocked down within their mainline reach, they rigged and hauled themselves by the cables to the next spar tree and started over. Rigging and moving was rough hard work.

Some of those old girls belched and hissed into the 50's, 60's and a few beyond. Steam engines were indestructible and never cantankerous. All they needed was a water supply, lots of wood and grease, pails and pails of it. Oh yes, and gland packing

Steam was replaced with gas and diesel for a while until the proliferation of heavy equipment and eventually, skidders on tracks or rubber, replaced donkeys. Skidders towed an arch which held the leading end of a bundle of felled trees off the ground and skidded them to the landing for transport.

Skidders, as did many pieces of equipment leading up to today's tree harvesters, eliminated jobs and started the demise of camps.

Donkeys, skidders, cats, fuel tanks, you name it, more often than not were written off and left behind, along with mountains of Old Style and CC bottles.

Over the years, many a plan was hatched in Vancouver, Nanaimo or Campbell River bars, for a tug and barge to go get the stuff; scrap was going to make them rich; the Caterpillar Gold Rush. They sank, literally or financially, every time.

Low key, active logging still takes place on Cortes but that whole area is one where there is often conflict between the loggers and locals.
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Old 11-21-2015, 07:20 PM   #40
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Actually, skidder is a function not a definition of a type of machine. So the lower photo in your post could have been a skidder if it had be used that way. These same type of steam donkeys were also called loaders if they were used for that purpose and yarders if they were used to haul logs to a landing or cold deck.

Look up "logging skidder" and you'll see all manner of machine types illustrated from smaller donkey-type machines llke the one in your post to the gigantic tower skidders (below).

Skidders have been around for ages. My favorites are the massive tower skidders made by companies like Willamette and Lidgerwood in the 1920s. The tower could be raised to vertical to serve as a spar tree and some of the drums controlled the skylines and haulbacks to skid the logs to the landing while the lower boom and frame served as a loader to position the logs on the railcars or later, trucks. I'd have loved to see one in action.
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