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Old 08-27-2013, 11:35 PM   #41
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Adding weight to a catamaran seems like more of a performance killer than an advantage. But what do I know about blow boats?

I have learned that the ETNZ crew was caught liberally applying performance enhancing liquids on fellow team members. There ought to be a law against this. A bloody waste, I say!

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #42
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This is getting interesting cant wait for Sunday.

America's Cup| Team NZ boss Dalton happy with Jury... | Stuff.co.nz
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #43
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The first race is actually Saturday here in the U.S. Sunday down under.

Unfortunately, I don't think the penalty will matter much as far as the racing. One boat (and we don't know which one yet) will be much faster than the other, and either Oracle will win 11 straight races, or the Kiwi's will win 9 straight races. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't even one pass in the entire regatta. Hasn't been one yet.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid the first few minutes of the first race Saturday will tell us who the winner will be.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:47 PM   #44
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Do two points equate to two wins with each win being one point?
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:49 PM   #45
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No, it is not 2 points for the Kiwi's. It is minus 2 points for Oracle. Kiwi's still need to win 9 races. Oracle needs to win 11.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #46
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The first race is actually Saturday here in the U.S. Sunday down under.

Unfortunately, I don't think the penalty will matter much as far as the racing. One boat (and we don't know which one yet) will be much faster than the other, and either Oracle will win 11 straight races, or the Kiwi's will win 9 straight races. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't even one pass in the entire regatta. Hasn't been one yet.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid the first few minutes of the first race Saturday will tell us who the winner will be.
I think this will be closer than you think with alot of good jockeying around the start and both boats are appearing pretty equal and both are able to foil upwind which is a good barometer reading.

I do think the judges will be busy with penalty claims from both sides.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:29 PM   #47
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I pray that you're right as I live for this stuff. But, as I stated before, the starts are only 2 minutes instead of the normal 5, which leaves time for only 1 maneuver instead of the normal interesting, and, sometimes exciting "jockeying". Plus, relative to previous Cup races, they're afraid to get near each other, because of the fragility of the boats. I know it happened once in the LV Cup, but that was more of a matter of someone screwing up (they got no advantage from it), but it's unlikely to happen again.

Appearing pretty equal? Absolutely no way to gauge relative speed between boats as they've never faced each other (unlike the LV Cup) in an actual race . And, even if they've been out on the water at the same time - who's holding back and who's (probably neither) going for it? Impossible to tell. One of the great things about the AC is that nobody knows until it starts. Lots of suspense until that 1st leg of the 1st race. Then, unfortunately, everything will be known with these boats.

As for foiling upwind - unless condition are perfect, they've both been inconsistent. Not likely a factor unless someone has made great strides in the last few days.

Penalty claims - I hope so as that will mean competitive racing.

Sorry to be so negative, but I've waited a long time for this to be in San Francisco, and other that the Deed Of Gift races in "88 & '10, this will be the worst racing since the J Class boats (which were beautiful but not competitive). I'm not happy.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:38 AM   #48
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I'm afraid the Kiwi team has a profound advantage in racing experience in their boat. However, they're saddled with an inordinately high number of Kiwis.

On the other hand, the Yanks have a greater balance of Aussie and Kiwi on their team. They also apparently have creativity, ingenuity and cheating on their side.

Ought to be a damn good race!!
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:42 AM   #49
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Never mind guys, when NZ defends it in 4 years, they might have come up with a more affordable type of class, and we might see it getting back nearer the original concept. He, he, he.
Although to be fair, the original format was never a fleet race. In fact Larry Ellison's one off challenge last time, (and the big boat challenge by Michael Fay in 1988, which Dennis Connor defended with catamaran under questionable circumstances), was the original format was under the deed of gift. It was the New York Yacht Club which developed it into the round robin match race qualifying and defending series, with the winner of each fighting for the cup. What I feel sad about is my adopted country having so many sailors in it, but no Aussie boat. How does that happen...? The skipper of the defender, Spithill, is an Aussie, as are several crew...
Never mind, may the best boat and crew win - bring it ooon...

Hey Al, what time is it set to start over there on Saturday...I can't seem to find that fact anywhere.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:47 AM   #50
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Ought to be a damn good race!!
...and televised by NBC on Saturday, 1:00 pm.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:48 PM   #51
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Good show, Kiwis! That's a fast boat y'all got there. Seems like you've got a whole knot on us much of the time.

ETNZ 2, OTUSA -2

(ouch!)
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:53 PM   #52
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Yeah Ha we watched it on NBC here on the boat in MS with some Kiwi lovers.

Was the closest match racing so far and that's what we all wanted to see. If NZ does win the word down under is that the cup will return to more affordable match racing and that will be cool for all.

Proud to be a Kiwi flying the Kiwi flag here some people thought I was an Aussie bit my younger pretty hard.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:54 PM   #53
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Younger equals tongue I sometimes hate auto correct
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:13 AM   #54
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Younger equals tongue I sometimes hate auto correct
Good thing you explained that GW, had me going there for a minute. Visions of damage to an eye-watering part.

Yes, Team NZ have a good boat, if you can call those things boats. We are now getting it here in Aussie on Fox Sports One, but it is at 0600, ie for me = Sparrow's fart...so I recorded it. I think it is a pity they pinged the Oracle team -2, because it was not the sailing team's doing, and was not in the same vessel or regatta, the overweight object was in their AC 45 cat, and doubtful if it gave any advantage anyway. But it might all turn out academic if today's races are anything to go by.
Go the Kiwis..!
I was not impressed by (Aussie) James Spithill's attempt to milk a penalty at the second race start by suddenly luffing up and attempting to tap TNZ in a light collision...that was a rather cynical manipulation of the rules, but fortunately, the on-course umpires were not fooled.
Sure, the windward boat is supposed to give way, but both contestants are supposed to try to avoid actual collision, and as TNZ were clear ahead, there was no risk of collision until Spithill veered towards them, just missing their tail as it happened.
Still, it appears that to a significant extent almost the entire race outcome rests with the best start, so the pre-start is going to be quite intense, for sure...
Roll on races 3 & 4 tomorow...
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:59 AM   #55
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Younger equals tongue I sometimes hate auto correct
I just thought it was cannibalism revived. We had a recent football game bite to a body part I won`t name, close to the "squirrel grip" region.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:59 AM   #56
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The first race was pretty exciting thru the first mark, and then is became gradually more evident that the Kiwi boat was the better one. Then iIt seemed all those announcers had to talk about was the two-point penalty.

Maybe a different day, different wind and current, will even things up, but right now it looks like another horizon job.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:55 AM   #57
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I am not a sailboat racing fan by any means. But, I caught about 5 minutes of the race yesterday. Personally, it's not for me. I feel their focus on technology has trumped the grace, elegance, and beauty of monohull, fabric-sail 'yachts'.

I watched the America's Cup races back in the '80s, when I was more into sailing. And, there was a clear connection to yacht racing history. Now, I fail to see anything other than a race to accumulate and spend the most amount of money.

Call me old-school. But, I'll take wood veneer over titanium any day.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:23 PM   #58
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Good thing you explained that GW, had me going there for a minute. Visions of damage to an eye-watering part.

Yes, Team NZ have a good boat, if you can call those things boats. We are now getting it here in Aussie on Fox Sports One, but it is at 0600, ie for me = Sparrow's fart...so I recorded it. I think it is a pity they pinged the Oracle team -2, because it was not the sailing team's doing, and was not in the same vessel or regatta, the overweight object was in their AC 45 cat, and doubtful if it gave any advantage anyway. But it might all turn out academic if today's races are anything to go by.
Go the Kiwis..!
I was not impressed by (Aussie) James Spithill's attempt to milk a penalty at the second race start by suddenly luffing up and attempting to tap TNZ in a light collision...that was a rather cynical manipulation of the rules, but fortunately, the on-course umpires were not fooled.
Sure, the windward boat is supposed to give way, but both contestants are supposed to try to avoid actual collision, and as TNZ were clear ahead, there was no risk of collision until Spithill veered towards them, just missing their tail as it happened.
Still, it appears that to a significant extent almost the entire race outcome rests with the best start, so the pre-start is going to be quite intense, for sure...
Roll on races 3 & 4 tomorow...
Since when is luffing a cynical manipulation of the rules? And, just in case you're not familiar with match racing, trying to "milk a penalty" is quite normal at the start if both boats are close. And, if you didn't notice, both boats did try to avoid a collision. Otherwise there could have easily been one.

I'm surprised at your comments as it seemed as though you were one of the persons that actually followed this event in the past. It seems as though you don't like close, exciting racing and would prefer a one boat race as happened a few times in the LV Cup.

Bottom line for me is that there was at least some competition at the beginning. For me it's all about close, exciting (and almost collisions) racing. Be it in San Francisco or on the Hauraki Gulf.
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:22 PM   #59
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I like it for what it is; high tech boat against high tech boat. Comparing these to historical AC racers is like comparing NASCAR Daytona 500 racers to horse-drawn chariots. They're basically doing the same thing, but on an entirely different level.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #60
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I've never been so happy to be wrong!

The first halfs of the first three races were very good, close racing. And, the fourth race was exciting all the way!

Keep it up guys as it's finally getting fun!
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